Which of Three Upgrades to Buy First?

[CapitalistSailor]

I have a 2000 Beneteau 311 with a new mainsail but the original OEM jib. I am pondering which of three upgrades to do this winter: 1) Replace the jib with a new one, possibly a cruising or club racing laminate, 2) replace the large 3-bladed prop (non-standard) with a folding or feathering prop, or 3) buy a new or used cruising spinnaker (asymmetrical). Which upgrade should I do first, for next season?

The existing roller furling jib is worn out and has lost much of its shape, but will hold together for another season or two. The maximum draft is at 60-70% of the way back, and there is a hook in the last 10%. (The leach line is slack; I suspect the UV cover has shrunk a little.) On the Beneteau 311 the jib lead is in front of and inboard of the shrouds, so the maximum size that will fit is the standard 116% jib.

I sail on Lake Erie and mostly do day sailing and short cruises, but I may do a few club races next year and one or two distance races. The local people are of the opinion that the 3-bladed prop would make the biggest difference in boat speed, even going to windward with an old jib. I do a fair amount of racing on other people's boats, and have had them out on my boat, so I feel that I am getting most of what I can get out of the current sails.

As a side question, does anyone know what the stock propeller size is for a Beneteau 311 with a 20 HP Yanmar engine (model 2GM20F)?

Thanks in advance.

 

[justsomeguy]

Spinnaker.

It's a way of life.

 

[Jackdaw]

If you plan to race, do the prop.

In light airs it will cost you 30 seconds/mile, much worse than the 6-9 second credit you get for your current prop.

And it helps you all the time. Jibs just upwind. Spins down.

If you just want to cruise, then maybe do the spin.

 

[Captn TJ]

+1 on the prop then jib then spinnaker. Given its a fractional rig the main will be the primary driver anyway. With the light winds we have on Lake Erie a three blade fixed will slow you way down.

 

[4arch]

Since this weekend is the Annapolis Sailboat Show, most prop vendors will have show discounts this time of year and will offer them even if you don't appear in person at the show. Sailmakers seem to run specials a lot more frequently through the year.

 

[CCHer]

Ditto prop if its the only boat bucks thing you can do this year. Put a flex-o-fold on my boat last March. Made a big difference, particularly in light to moderate air.

 

[DougM]

I believe the stock prop was a two blade 16 x 11. The keys specs for a new prop are based on the engine and the transmission gear ratio. The prop manufacturers usually have a recommended diameter and pitch based on those parameters and whether you opt for a two blade or,three blade prop. You generally want the prop sized to allow the engine to reach maximum rpm. if the prop is over pitched the engine cannot get there, and will puff out black smoke trying...

 

[CapitalistSailor]

Thank you for all the great advice. I did some research on folding props and will probably ask Santa Claus for one (and maybe a jib). Flexofold looks pretty good according to a Yachting Monthly article I found (on Flexofold's site) http://www.flexofold.com/upload_dir/docs/Test_YachtingMonthly_low.pdf, but there are lots of old Martek folding props on eBay for a few hundred dollars, compared to roughly $1400 for a new Flexofold.


I need to go look at the transmission gear ratio. The boat is an hour and a half away so it will have to wait until the weekend. I have the usual Yanmar 2GM20F motor for a Beneteau 311.

 

[Jackdaw]

Thank you for all the great advice. I did some research on folding props and will probably ask Santa Claus for one (and maybe a jib). Flexofold looks pretty good according to a Yachting Monthly article I found (on Flexofold's site) http://www.flexofold.com/upload_dir/docs/Test_YachtingMonthly_low.pdf, but there are lots of old Martek folding props on eBay for a few hundred dollars, compared to roughly $1400 for a new Flexofold.


I need to go look at the transmission gear ratio. The boat is an hour and a half away so it will have to wait until the weekend. I have the usual Yanmar 2GM20F motor for a Beneteau 311.

You'll be very happy with the flexofold. We have one on both boats.

The Martec floppy-folder is an OK prop, but has a bad habit of not opening at the worst possible times.

Your boat probably has a tapered metric shaft. Any used prop will likely have to come from another beni of the same approx size. Really cuts down the available used market. And most people sell them after it scares the crap out of them after not opening while docking.

 

[GWG]

AutoProp
I've had AutoProp on 2 boats now. It is flawless,with self adjustin pitch. No complex adjusting pitch needed. It has never failed to open, improves both sailing performance and is very fuel efficient. Max speed at only 2,000 rpm

 

[Jackdaw]

AutoProp
I've had AutoProp on 2 boats now. It is flawless,with self adjustin pitch. No complex adjusting pitch needed. It has never failed to open, improves both sailing performance and is very fuel efficient. Max speed at only 2,000 rpm

Autoprop a great choice if performance under power more important than sailing performance. Drag is better than fixed props, but much worse then a good folder.

 

[gregrosine]

I would do the jib. It is used all the time.

I have a 2000 Beneteau 311 with a new mainsail but the original OEM jib. I am pondering which of three upgrades to do this winter: 1) Replace the jib with a new one, possibly a cruising or club racing laminate, 2) replace the large 3-bladed prop (non-standard) with a folding or feathering prop, or 3) buy a new or used cruising spinnaker (asymmetrical). Which upgrade should I do first, for next season?

The existing roller furling jib is worn out and has lost much of its shape, but will hold together for another season or two. The maximum draft is at 60-70% of the way back, and there is a hook in the last 10%. (The leach line is slack; I suspect the UV cover has shrunk a little.) On the Beneteau 311 the jib lead is in front of and inboard of the shrouds, so the maximum size that will fit is the standard 116% jib.

I sail on Lake Erie and mostly do day sailing and short cruises, but I may do a few club races next year and one or two distance races. The local people are of the opinion that the 3-bladed prop would make the biggest difference in boat speed, even going to windward with an old jib. I do a fair amount of racing on other people's boats, and have had them out on my boat, so I feel that I am getting most of what I can get out of the current sails.

As a side question, does anyone know what the stock propeller size is for a Beneteau 311 with a 20 HP Yanmar engine (model 2GM20F)?

Thanks in advance.

 

[meb135]

CapitalistSailor,
i feel your pain and the pinch in your wallet. I am finding myself in the same situation. Blown-out dacron main and jib and dragging a big fixed 3 blade prop. But I couldn't decide on which one was more importand to enhance the boats overall sailing experience. I also knew that whichever purchase i'd made this year, that i would be impatiently waiting for next season's purchase....but that's me.
So i decided, the hell with it, you only live once. So I'm getting all 3 over the winter and the genn with top down furler will come later. Getting the recommended 2 blade flex-o-fold prop and tri-radial laminate main and jib..
Dive in and enjoy!

Marc

 

[Grouperhound]

I installed a Flexi-fold before being splashed this year. I have a Spinnaker too with topdown, but that is another story. I might have opted for a sock instead.

 

[suamicotom]

Replaced my 2 blade fixed with a Flex-o-fold 2 blade folding and I am very happy with the performance. I reduced my rpm by 300+ for the same speed. Great upgrade!

 

[watercayman]

I've got a 311 (lift keel) and bought a Flex-o-fold as well. I highly recommend this addition. For me it was all about hating the thumping that comes from the spinning standard prop under sail. It also increases speed under sail; impossible to say how much, but a realistic guess would be between 0.5 and 0.75 kts.

As Suamicotom said, my prop also reduces max RPM by around 300, which isn't a big deal - my old prop reduced it by 700, which is not good for the engine... though it never smoked.

Some info for you if you decide to purchase: Standard 311 engine, Yanmar 2GM20f with 18hp @ 3600 RPM, reduction ratio: 1:2.62, shaft diameter = 25mm


Flex-o-fold recommends either a 2-blade 15X12R or a 3-blade 15X11-3R prop based on these specs. I bought the 2 blade and am very happy with it.[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[CapitalistSailor]

Watercayman,

Thank you for the good information. Your engine specs match mine, but I have the fixed, bulb keel and the single rudder. I asked Flexofold what advantages a 3-bladed prop would have over a 2-bladed prop, because the 3-bladed prop is almost twice as expensive. They replied that the 3-bladed prop would provide more push in rough water and waves, and that the 3-bladed prop was recommended by Beneteau. I'm not worried about the rough water so much, as I am willing to not make maximum speed punching into waves when motoring.

The waves here on Lake Erie are often quite steep when new, due to the shallower depths and the speed with which waves build up. Lake Huron can also get steep waves when the wind suddenly picks up to 30+ knots. I have stood on the bow of a friend's Tartan 30C going downwind in a sudden blow, trying to pull down a jib, and not been able to see the bottom of the wave in front of us. We don't get the long waves and swell that you typically do in the Caribbean.

I've got a 311 (lift keel) and bought a Flex-o-fold as well. I highly recommend this addition. For me it was all about hating the thumping that comes from the spinning standard prop under sail. It also increases speed under sail; impossible to say how much, but a realistic guess would be between 0.5 and 0.75 kts.

As Suamicotom said, my prop also reduces max RPM by around 300, which isn't a big deal - my old prop reduced it by 700, which is not good for the engine... though it never smoked.

Some info for you if you decide to purchase: Standard 311 engine, Yanmar 2GM20f with 18hp @ 3600 RPM, reduction ratio: 1:2.62, shaft diameter = 25mm


Flex-o-fold recommends either a 2-blade 15X12R or a 3-blade 15X11-3R prop based on these specs. I bought the 2 blade and am very happy with it.[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[watercayman]

Interesting. I am out quite often in 20-25kts and can agree that you'll definitely see a reduction in max speed... though I'm not sure if it is the 2 blade vs 3 blade or just the HP of the engine.

I'm not out in 30+ kts often, but can give you a little more info on the speed:

I run at 2700-2800 rpm when motoring and this typically moves me at 6.0 kts via GPS. At 20-25kts of headwind, this slows to around 5.3 kts. I sail in a sound with depth of about 10-15 feet, so I also see short period waves, but seldom above 3 feet. Hitting these head on in 25kts further reduces average speed to about 5.0kts.

I've never had any issue or concern with this, but your conditions may warrant the 3 blade. Keep in mind that your bulb keel should likely improve your motoring speeds against mine by a few tenths of a knot based on weight and hull dynamics (from what I understand about this model).