I am having a hard time deciding what boat to get and would love to get any and all input. Though I have spent a significant amount of time running commercial fishing boats in Alaska, I have sailed very little. My wife and I are 33 and in pretty good shape. My wife is not afraid to sail and insists on being as capable as I to do all of the tasks on the boat. We plan on sailing the Pacific Northwest (San Juans, Gulf Islands, etc.) on mostly weekend trips and a couple one to two week trips into Canada each summer. I hear there are often light winds in the NW in the summer. We have no real blue water desires yet. I don't see myself racing, but performance appeals to me. Not sure why or if that will change with experience - either wanting more or not caring. My guess is half our sailing will be with a total of 4 adults and one fast growing 6 year old, and the other half with just my wife and son. Occasionally I could see 6 adults for a weekend if I had a bigger boat, but that is not a high priority. Same as going by myself - not a high priority, but would like that freedom once more experienced. Here is what I am looking at right now: **New Beneteau 423** I had scratched this from the list due to size and price, however the dealer called me today and lowered his 'boat show special price' another $20K. He said since they have been sitting on the boat for over a year they really wants to move it. The price is now lower than what I am seeing for used 423s on Yachtworld.com Even ordering a new 393 would be more expensive than buying this boat. Very enticing. Concerns: It seems like more boat than I need. This is a 20,000 pound boat. The dealer keeps telling me how easy it would be to single-hand if necessary. Does this sound right? We are not big on the super shiny interior (no offense to B owners, just not our preference). It just seems as if it might scratch or show marks very easy. I guess it feels a little too fancy for us, but I am sure if the boat was mine I could make it more homey and get used to it. **New Jeanneau SO 37** I just really like the feel of the boat. The cockpit is huge, the interior is warm and has all the room and amenities we really need. It is now close in price to the 423 $170K with everything) and seems way to expensive. I also hear it can be under-powered under sail, but am told with a spinnaker in the Northwest I will be fine. Its non-liner construction is suppose to be superior to the liner methodology for weight, access, repairs, etc. The dealer is the strongest of those of I have worked with. I can just tell they take care of their customers. For some reason I just can't quite walk away from this one. **New Catalina 36MKII** I am really starting to like this boat. The interior seems very well laid out with lots of room and again has all we really need. The price ($135K to $140K with all options, electronics, etc.) is amazing. The owners on all of the owners lists LOVE their boats and love their service from Catalina. Owners consistently say the 36 sails very well. Many owners also seemed to have down-sized from a bigger boat and love the size of the 36 footer. Others are on their 2nd or 3rd. Even with 2100 36s built, there are not lots on the used market and those that are seem to have held their price very well. This seems like a solid, classic, straightforward boat that would serve us very well. **Used 98 Tartan 3500** In Seattle. They are asking $159,500. Engine only has 30 hours. The upside is this is a TARTAN! Everything I have heard and read says this is a great boat. Solid boat, good performance, very nice warm all wood interior, blue water capable, yet very practical for cruising. Practical Sailor seems to give this boat 2 thumbs way up, which is quite a compliment coming from them. The broker says the boat is in perfect condition, though I have not seen it yet (moving from Colorado...house is on the market). I loved the 3500 at the Annapolis boat show this year. It seems like big step up from the big 3 & Jeanneau. I am concerned that with only 30 hours on the engine it may have not had enough of a workout the past 5 years. I am also concerned that any warranty problems that would have come up in the first year with heavier use will show up once I own the boat. These could be big, even if a survey gives it a clean bill of health. Bavaria was nice and priced very well, but I hit my head on the ceiling when facing the stove so it is out. I am only 6 feet tall. What do you think? I would love your input, comments, etc. Thanks! Sather Flynn sather@us.ibm.com
- Status
Cat 36, but then I am biased
I have a Cat 36 and love it. I have had 12 people on board for a day sail and have slept 10 overnight. It sails very well and is pretty easy to handle. We have get togethers here in Narragansett Bay with the Catalina Group here and the 36 is the most popular boat, followed by the Catalina 42. There are some very good reasons why this is the most popular 36 footer in the world. Les Murray s/v Ceilidh '86 C-36 #560
I have a Cat 36 and love it. I have had 12 people on board for a day sail and have slept 10 overnight. It sails very well and is pretty easy to handle. We have get togethers here in Narragansett Bay with the Catalina Group here and the 36 is the most popular boat, followed by the Catalina 42. There are some very good reasons why this is the most popular 36 footer in the world. Les Murray s/v Ceilidh '86 C-36 #560
Smaller
The Tartan is really so different from the Catalina 36 as to be comparing oranges to apples. The Tartan is a blue water cruiser and the Cat 36 is not. What this means is that the Tartan can handle very tough seas if need be, but it also carries 2000 lbs. more displacement, and will not be as good a boat in light air. I haven't been in one, but I would guess that it also has less interior space than the Cat 36. Your projected use, all inside Peuget Sound, would not seem to require a blue water cruiser, and you might get frustrated with it on the light air days. In fact, your projected use might even suggest a smaller boat, such as a Catalina 34, which is more than large enough for three people to live on for a few days at a time. The smaller the boat you can stand, the less it costs to maintain and store, and the more easily it can be handled by a short-handed crew. In sailing it's not the guy who dies with the biggest boat who wins. It's the guy who dies with the most miles sailed with the most fun and the least hassle who wins.
The Tartan is really so different from the Catalina 36 as to be comparing oranges to apples. The Tartan is a blue water cruiser and the Cat 36 is not. What this means is that the Tartan can handle very tough seas if need be, but it also carries 2000 lbs. more displacement, and will not be as good a boat in light air. I haven't been in one, but I would guess that it also has less interior space than the Cat 36. Your projected use, all inside Peuget Sound, would not seem to require a blue water cruiser, and you might get frustrated with it on the light air days. In fact, your projected use might even suggest a smaller boat, such as a Catalina 34, which is more than large enough for three people to live on for a few days at a time. The smaller the boat you can stand, the less it costs to maintain and store, and the more easily it can be handled by a short-handed crew. In sailing it's not the guy who dies with the biggest boat who wins. It's the guy who dies with the most miles sailed with the most fun and the least hassle who wins.
Catalina
For Puget Sound, Gulf Islands,etc. It's no contest. Get the Catalina. If as you said, most of your sailing will be in the summer,trust me, there is not much wind. You will be motoring a lot. And I do mean a lot. This is an awesome area for cruising because there are so many places to go and you will enjoy the Catalina. I'd probably go with the 34 for the use suggest. The '36 is a lot of boat reguiring more mantenance, higher moorage fees, etc. Every thing costs more for a larger boat. Enjoy the Catalina. Yes, yes, I have a Catalina. Sean
For Puget Sound, Gulf Islands,etc. It's no contest. Get the Catalina. If as you said, most of your sailing will be in the summer,trust me, there is not much wind. You will be motoring a lot. And I do mean a lot. This is an awesome area for cruising because there are so many places to go and you will enjoy the Catalina. I'd probably go with the 34 for the use suggest. The '36 is a lot of boat reguiring more mantenance, higher moorage fees, etc. Every thing costs more for a larger boat. Enjoy the Catalina. Yes, yes, I have a Catalina. Sean
catalina
I'm on the SF Bay with a 320, we have a 3 person family with a fast growing 6 year old. The 320 is more than enough space for us, and I can handle it like it's a big dingy by myself. We also looked at an Ericson 38, but it was too big to feel comfortable single handing and berth's and insurance would have gone up significantly.
I'm on the SF Bay with a 320, we have a 3 person family with a fast growing 6 year old. The 320 is more than enough space for us, and I can handle it like it's a big dingy by myself. We also looked at an Ericson 38, but it was too big to feel comfortable single handing and berth's and insurance would have gone up significantly.
Take a close look at the Cat 320
You have made a good analysis of your needs and desires, far better than most with the same question. The Catalinas are offshore certified, which means they meet minimum requirements for coastal cruising. That minimum standard provides an adequate margin of safety for the vast majority of N.A. sailors. I can attest that the eye of hurricane Isabel passed directly over our Cat-320 moored in Durham's Creek, NC and it survived without a scratch or failure anywhere. Our needs and desires were virtually identical to yours and the Cat-320 fits the bill admirably in all respects. In deciding to move up again(after having previously moved down), we automatically started looking at 36's and 38's 'knowing' that we would only find the performance, space and comfort we sought in that size range. We looked at the 320 and were blown away. It had everything we wanted in a much more economical package. Everything today seems to be charged for by the foot, regardless of whether length is relevent or not. The smaller boat is easier in all respects, sailing, maintaining, docking etc. Bigger is better in a few areas and you will have to evaluate their priority by your own set of values. Among similar boats, bigger is generally; faster, more comfortable in a blow and offers more storage. The myth of the 'bluewater' cruiser is analogous to the perfect physique of the trainers at the gym. Yeah, it's a great goal, but how many want to go through the pain to have it and to keep it <grin>. You really can't go too far wrong with one of the 'big three', provided it passes survey and provided that you fall in love with it immediately. Falling in love increases the chances of long term happiness. Buying from the 'big three' enhances the resale process if you fall out of love. If you think I am joking or being facetious, remember, there is absolutely no logical justification for owning a sailboat...so you'd better love it. Have fun shopping and have more fun sailing!
You have made a good analysis of your needs and desires, far better than most with the same question. The Catalinas are offshore certified, which means they meet minimum requirements for coastal cruising. That minimum standard provides an adequate margin of safety for the vast majority of N.A. sailors. I can attest that the eye of hurricane Isabel passed directly over our Cat-320 moored in Durham's Creek, NC and it survived without a scratch or failure anywhere. Our needs and desires were virtually identical to yours and the Cat-320 fits the bill admirably in all respects. In deciding to move up again(after having previously moved down), we automatically started looking at 36's and 38's 'knowing' that we would only find the performance, space and comfort we sought in that size range. We looked at the 320 and were blown away. It had everything we wanted in a much more economical package. Everything today seems to be charged for by the foot, regardless of whether length is relevent or not. The smaller boat is easier in all respects, sailing, maintaining, docking etc. Bigger is better in a few areas and you will have to evaluate their priority by your own set of values. Among similar boats, bigger is generally; faster, more comfortable in a blow and offers more storage. The myth of the 'bluewater' cruiser is analogous to the perfect physique of the trainers at the gym. Yeah, it's a great goal, but how many want to go through the pain to have it and to keep it <grin>. You really can't go too far wrong with one of the 'big three', provided it passes survey and provided that you fall in love with it immediately. Falling in love increases the chances of long term happiness. Buying from the 'big three' enhances the resale process if you fall out of love. If you think I am joking or being facetious, remember, there is absolutely no logical justification for owning a sailboat...so you'd better love it. Have fun shopping and have more fun sailing!
Which New (To You) Boat?
Sather Good responses, all. Lots of folks naturally tend to promote their own boats, heck, if they didn't like 'em they wouldn't keep 'em. But there sure are a lot of good boats out there, new and used, as you've noted. The best advice I've ever heard is go with your feelings, and your significant other's. YOU have to like the boat. You can do all the research you want, and can, but eventually it's the one that tickles your fancy. I forget who said it, but it goes something like: "the one that makes your heart go flutter flutter as you drift away in your dink." For our two cents, and rather than retyping a lot of what's been said already before, please see the link. All the best, Stu
Sather Good responses, all. Lots of folks naturally tend to promote their own boats, heck, if they didn't like 'em they wouldn't keep 'em. But there sure are a lot of good boats out there, new and used, as you've noted. The best advice I've ever heard is go with your feelings, and your significant other's. YOU have to like the boat. You can do all the research you want, and can, but eventually it's the one that tickles your fancy. I forget who said it, but it goes something like: "the one that makes your heart go flutter flutter as you drift away in your dink." For our two cents, and rather than retyping a lot of what's been said already before, please see the link. All the best, Stu
A Catalina 36 or 34
Definitely a 36 or 34. More than enough boat for where you sail. G., Atlanta P.S. We have a Catalina MKII 36. Love it. Would go Island hopping with it. Saw one just like ours in St. Lucia, towing a dinghy just like ours.
Definitely a 36 or 34. More than enough boat for where you sail. G., Atlanta P.S. We have a Catalina MKII 36. Love it. Would go Island hopping with it. Saw one just like ours in St. Lucia, towing a dinghy just like ours.
Boat choices
Hi Sather - Looks like you are having fun with the shopping process! I can tell you that the Beneteau 423 is a good deal, but from your post it doesn't sound like you are in love with it. Size can be a concern for handling and price, but experience can mitigate the former. The latter is something that won't go away. Looking at the other boats, I can also tell you that the Catalina 36 is a very popular boat and provides a very good blend of performance and amenities. I don't know much about the Jeanneau, but am interested in your comments about the dealer. The Tartan is going to feel much smaller than the other boats inside, but it does have a nice layout and excellent craftmanship inside. I am interested to hear why so many people think Tartans are in the "offshore" capably category when the big three are not. Personally (and this is all personal preference, isn't it?), I think all of the boats you listed would suit you and your intended cruising plans. I've sailed the C36 (actually owned one), the T3500, and motored the B423 (haven't had the chance to sail it yet). It really comes down to what grabs you. No matter how you look at it, buying a sailboat cannot be a completely rational decision! Have a great time - you'll be pleased in the end no matter what you buy. Best, Trevor
Hi Sather - Looks like you are having fun with the shopping process! I can tell you that the Beneteau 423 is a good deal, but from your post it doesn't sound like you are in love with it. Size can be a concern for handling and price, but experience can mitigate the former. The latter is something that won't go away. Looking at the other boats, I can also tell you that the Catalina 36 is a very popular boat and provides a very good blend of performance and amenities. I don't know much about the Jeanneau, but am interested in your comments about the dealer. The Tartan is going to feel much smaller than the other boats inside, but it does have a nice layout and excellent craftmanship inside. I am interested to hear why so many people think Tartans are in the "offshore" capably category when the big three are not. Personally (and this is all personal preference, isn't it?), I think all of the boats you listed would suit you and your intended cruising plans. I've sailed the C36 (actually owned one), the T3500, and motored the B423 (haven't had the chance to sail it yet). It really comes down to what grabs you. No matter how you look at it, buying a sailboat cannot be a completely rational decision! Have a great time - you'll be pleased in the end no matter what you buy. Best, Trevor
My 2 cents worth (ok, 5 cents) - long
Well you've gotten a lot of good advise, so I guess I'll add my 2cents worth. I will try and be as unbiased as possible. **New Beneteau 423** (Not sure if you saw my recent post ?? But just in case you didn't I'll give you the gist of what I said. ) When I sit down below on a Beneteau at a boat show, I come away "uninspired" it just feels ...blah.... Now I'm not saying they aren't a decent sailing boat because I think, for the most part, they are, but I think they push the mass market to a higher level. I will add that I am astounded that they can produce a 47' boat for such a low price. I guess that goes to their volume purchasing and mass production methods, but it doesn't mean I have fallen in love with that boat. Now if I had to have a new boat and I had to have as much waterline as possible in that boat for less than $280k then I might consider it. The Beneteau's just don't leave me with a feeling that really makes me comfortable and cozy like my C36 - maybe its the sterile green and while stripe cushions I see on some of them. I can say in all honesty, I'd rather have a different boat for $260-$290 k. Bottom line - If I was looking for the longest waterline for the least amount of money this is the boat I would go for, but by your description, this does not sound what you are looking for **New Jeanneau SO 37** Jeez...these Jeanneau's seem like nice boats, but *no-where* near the price they are asking these days !!...Wow. I would only expect them to be similar or a few percent more than a Beneteau/Catalina for the same relative boat size. I think that is too much, perhaps its because they are made in France (Beneteau has plants in the US) and the exchange rate is lousy. Its no secret to some on here that I really like the layout of the Jenneau 43 Deck Salon, but a 42 boat for $250k ??....maybe if the stock market really rebounds Bottom line - a bit pricey and not really anything that warrants it. Plus I do not like the single vinyl coated life-line as your *only* protection from going overboard aft. it does not make me feel secure and I am dang sure it won't make you feel very secure either. When sailing you will tend to lean back and reach for something solid and on this boat, it will not be there. Try chartering boats with a solid stainless steel pushpit and then step on to a boat like this without one and you'll feel naked, exposed and uncomfortable..... **Used 98 Tartan 3500** Ok, not a bad boat -- I really have to question the 30 hours on the engine in 5 years....whats the story with the boat? What was the situation? I think you really need to dig a bit deeper to get a feel....something sounds a bit out of sorts. Does this boat have a walk through transom like the others, not sure, but to me that is a really nice feature for my kind of coastal cruising. I think it just has a step over and platform thats there or that folds down, not sure. Plus even though I know this is a "sail"boat I still think they could have put a bigger engine in the boat. 27hp just seems a little low, I mean really, how much more could it have cost to put a few more hp's into the boat? I like knowing that in if a huge squall line came through and had incredible winds, I could still make headway if caught between a rock and a hard place. (happened to me this past summer with 60-80+ knot winds when a thunderstorm came though.....it was very nice having the overpowered 35 HP engine in my C36, it also gave some comfort to my trembling first mate) As a personal note, I think they are well made boats, but when people say the "blue water capable", then I have to chuckle. What blue water ? Cape Horn in the off season? I think some really serious ocean sailors would scoff at even a tartan ....its all relative, but with that said, I do think they are a bit more built than my Catalina, but the reality is that 95% of the time all of these the boats will take a lot more than any of us could ever throw at it. As far the layout, I just didn't find it all that appealing....I don't know why. It just seems cramped and askew. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind owning this boat. But its the little things that make one really feel comfortable and enjoyable on a boat. For instance, they have the fold down tables in these boats, nothing wrong with that, but I think you will find the starboard "game" table that is almost always set up on my boat as such a great feature, you'll never want another boat without one. On the tartan that "folding table" is always there. You can't get rid of it. On the C36, I can take the big table mount it on the bulkhead and have tons of room, or I have can put it down and have a "Huge" bed where I can romp around.....I like the options....Soooo....If I was doing your cruising, I would lean towards the C36, but if I was doing some serious open water where that table in the middle and the cramped layout would be a benefit because in a serious seaway for days on end, it gives you less room to go flying. **Bavaria** There was a long discussion recently on Sailnet w/regards to bavaria's. ( http://members.sailnet.com/messageboard/readmessage.cfm?Forum=3&Topic=8214 )..nothing really bad, but they are nothing special either. Not in love with the "saildrive" for an engine transmission either. Maintenance etc, etc can be a pain. Plus I don't like the layout, very bland and they are cheaping out by puting down fake plastic wood floors. (Some people think that they are at the bottom of the production boats list). **Catalina 36MKII** ( Drum roll please ) I don't think you will find a better boat under $200k than a C36 that has the same *combination* of the following that I think makes an ideal coastal cruiser. Such as: stability and ease of singlehandling, 4'5" shoal draft (gotta have this), decent easy motion, Good sailing characteristics Belowdecks set up is great, great salon, very comfortable at anchor, lots of opening ports, very nice light and airy, Not too much teak below to make belowdecks seem like a cave, easy to maintain boat (access, etc), Lots of storage space, Great classic looks/lines (personal opinion), set-up/userability is great(all lines go back nicely to cockpit), ability to steer & sail comfortable from either coaming , ability to handle rough seas and high winds, (many of us have been caught in both and never felt uneasy) Great cockpit space, Pushpit aft seats (These become favored seats on a cruise, its amazing how many people want to sit in them and don't give them up) the BEST walk through transom out there and if you have kids and a dog and you anchor a lot, then you'll know what I mean(THIS is one area I think is better that any boat I have ever seen ....wide opening, wide ladder, wide steps, ladder goes deep into water, very secure when latched up, easy to operate) Solid beefy "right" sized hardware on deck as standard.....etc etc....No its not a perfect boat -- But when you look at the *combination* and add all the features all together, then you get one sweet boat. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BOTTOM LINE -- (repeat) This is what it comes down to. When you sit on the boat, and when you sit in the saloon,etc., the boat you buy should bring a smile to your face. And when you walk away from a nice weekend on the boat you end up turning back to look at the boat and you smile because you love the way it looks and makes you feel. At least that's what my C36 does to me and I wouldn't trade it for any boat under $200k ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well you've gotten a lot of good advise, so I guess I'll add my 2cents worth. I will try and be as unbiased as possible. **New Beneteau 423** (Not sure if you saw my recent post ?? But just in case you didn't I'll give you the gist of what I said. ) When I sit down below on a Beneteau at a boat show, I come away "uninspired" it just feels ...blah.... Now I'm not saying they aren't a decent sailing boat because I think, for the most part, they are, but I think they push the mass market to a higher level. I will add that I am astounded that they can produce a 47' boat for such a low price. I guess that goes to their volume purchasing and mass production methods, but it doesn't mean I have fallen in love with that boat. Now if I had to have a new boat and I had to have as much waterline as possible in that boat for less than $280k then I might consider it. The Beneteau's just don't leave me with a feeling that really makes me comfortable and cozy like my C36 - maybe its the sterile green and while stripe cushions I see on some of them. I can say in all honesty, I'd rather have a different boat for $260-$290 k. Bottom line - If I was looking for the longest waterline for the least amount of money this is the boat I would go for, but by your description, this does not sound what you are looking for **New Jeanneau SO 37** Jeez...these Jeanneau's seem like nice boats, but *no-where* near the price they are asking these days !!...Wow. I would only expect them to be similar or a few percent more than a Beneteau/Catalina for the same relative boat size. I think that is too much, perhaps its because they are made in France (Beneteau has plants in the US) and the exchange rate is lousy. Its no secret to some on here that I really like the layout of the Jenneau 43 Deck Salon, but a 42 boat for $250k ??....maybe if the stock market really rebounds Bottom line - a bit pricey and not really anything that warrants it. Plus I do not like the single vinyl coated life-line as your *only* protection from going overboard aft. it does not make me feel secure and I am dang sure it won't make you feel very secure either. When sailing you will tend to lean back and reach for something solid and on this boat, it will not be there. Try chartering boats with a solid stainless steel pushpit and then step on to a boat like this without one and you'll feel naked, exposed and uncomfortable..... **Used 98 Tartan 3500** Ok, not a bad boat -- I really have to question the 30 hours on the engine in 5 years....whats the story with the boat? What was the situation? I think you really need to dig a bit deeper to get a feel....something sounds a bit out of sorts. Does this boat have a walk through transom like the others, not sure, but to me that is a really nice feature for my kind of coastal cruising. I think it just has a step over and platform thats there or that folds down, not sure. Plus even though I know this is a "sail"boat I still think they could have put a bigger engine in the boat. 27hp just seems a little low, I mean really, how much more could it have cost to put a few more hp's into the boat? I like knowing that in if a huge squall line came through and had incredible winds, I could still make headway if caught between a rock and a hard place. (happened to me this past summer with 60-80+ knot winds when a thunderstorm came though.....it was very nice having the overpowered 35 HP engine in my C36, it also gave some comfort to my trembling first mate) As a personal note, I think they are well made boats, but when people say the "blue water capable", then I have to chuckle. What blue water ? Cape Horn in the off season? I think some really serious ocean sailors would scoff at even a tartan ....its all relative, but with that said, I do think they are a bit more built than my Catalina, but the reality is that 95% of the time all of these the boats will take a lot more than any of us could ever throw at it. As far the layout, I just didn't find it all that appealing....I don't know why. It just seems cramped and askew. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind owning this boat. But its the little things that make one really feel comfortable and enjoyable on a boat. For instance, they have the fold down tables in these boats, nothing wrong with that, but I think you will find the starboard "game" table that is almost always set up on my boat as such a great feature, you'll never want another boat without one. On the tartan that "folding table" is always there. You can't get rid of it. On the C36, I can take the big table mount it on the bulkhead and have tons of room, or I have can put it down and have a "Huge" bed where I can romp around.....I like the options....Soooo....If I was doing your cruising, I would lean towards the C36, but if I was doing some serious open water where that table in the middle and the cramped layout would be a benefit because in a serious seaway for days on end, it gives you less room to go flying. **Bavaria** There was a long discussion recently on Sailnet w/regards to bavaria's. ( http://members.sailnet.com/messageboard/readmessage.cfm?Forum=3&Topic=8214 )..nothing really bad, but they are nothing special either. Not in love with the "saildrive" for an engine transmission either. Maintenance etc, etc can be a pain. Plus I don't like the layout, very bland and they are cheaping out by puting down fake plastic wood floors. (Some people think that they are at the bottom of the production boats list). **Catalina 36MKII** ( Drum roll please ) I don't think you will find a better boat under $200k than a C36 that has the same *combination* of the following that I think makes an ideal coastal cruiser. Such as: stability and ease of singlehandling, 4'5" shoal draft (gotta have this), decent easy motion, Good sailing characteristics Belowdecks set up is great, great salon, very comfortable at anchor, lots of opening ports, very nice light and airy, Not too much teak below to make belowdecks seem like a cave, easy to maintain boat (access, etc), Lots of storage space, Great classic looks/lines (personal opinion), set-up/userability is great(all lines go back nicely to cockpit), ability to steer & sail comfortable from either coaming , ability to handle rough seas and high winds, (many of us have been caught in both and never felt uneasy) Great cockpit space, Pushpit aft seats (These become favored seats on a cruise, its amazing how many people want to sit in them and don't give them up) the BEST walk through transom out there and if you have kids and a dog and you anchor a lot, then you'll know what I mean(THIS is one area I think is better that any boat I have ever seen ....wide opening, wide ladder, wide steps, ladder goes deep into water, very secure when latched up, easy to operate) Solid beefy "right" sized hardware on deck as standard.....etc etc....No its not a perfect boat -- But when you look at the *combination* and add all the features all together, then you get one sweet boat. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BOTTOM LINE -- (repeat) This is what it comes down to. When you sit on the boat, and when you sit in the saloon,etc., the boat you buy should bring a smile to your face. And when you walk away from a nice weekend on the boat you end up turning back to look at the boat and you smile because you love the way it looks and makes you feel. At least that's what my C36 does to me and I wouldn't trade it for any boat under $200k ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Good Ideas from Tom
Some well thought out ideas. Also occurred to me that boat systems, and access to them are quite important. If you do your own work (and many believe you have to for safety) it's important that you be able to get to things. My experience with Beneteaus is that everything is hidden behind interior finishes. On one bareboat charter, we had to take the entire aft cabin apart just to get to the dipstick to check the oil every morning before we started the engine! I think Tom and others will agree that access to systems on Catalinas is superb. You should keep checking out how you'd access and work on boat parts whenever you're looking at a boat, regardless of what they look like in appearance. Happy hunting. Stu
Some well thought out ideas. Also occurred to me that boat systems, and access to them are quite important. If you do your own work (and many believe you have to for safety) it's important that you be able to get to things. My experience with Beneteaus is that everything is hidden behind interior finishes. On one bareboat charter, we had to take the entire aft cabin apart just to get to the dipstick to check the oil every morning before we started the engine! I think Tom and others will agree that access to systems on Catalinas is superb. You should keep checking out how you'd access and work on boat parts whenever you're looking at a boat, regardless of what they look like in appearance. Happy hunting. Stu
Blue water or coastal
To clarify my comment about the Tartan compared to the Cat 36: First, certainly the Beneteau 423 is blue water capable. It's huge, and many people cross oceans in them. However, in the 36-foot class there is a common distinction between the 16,000 lb. displacement boats like the Tartan and Crealock (to name another blue water brand) and the 13,500 lb. boats like the Cat or Hunter 36's, or the Beneteau 361's. The heavier boats are twice as expensive new, because of their greater displacement and stouter build. Everything about them is heavier, including the portholes. They are designed to take the Perfect Storm, and if they are rolled in a giant wave, they are designed to pop upright again. They have more tankage than the Cat 36, too. The Cat 36 on the other hand, is usually described as a "coastal cruiser". Certainly in the summer some owners take them on long passages, but they aren't designed to stand up to a Cape Horn type storm, while the Tartan is. That's why the Cat 36 is less expensive. But again, for island hopping inside of Peuget Sound, often in light air, what's the point of having the heavier Tartan?
To clarify my comment about the Tartan compared to the Cat 36: First, certainly the Beneteau 423 is blue water capable. It's huge, and many people cross oceans in them. However, in the 36-foot class there is a common distinction between the 16,000 lb. displacement boats like the Tartan and Crealock (to name another blue water brand) and the 13,500 lb. boats like the Cat or Hunter 36's, or the Beneteau 361's. The heavier boats are twice as expensive new, because of their greater displacement and stouter build. Everything about them is heavier, including the portholes. They are designed to take the Perfect Storm, and if they are rolled in a giant wave, they are designed to pop upright again. They have more tankage than the Cat 36, too. The Cat 36 on the other hand, is usually described as a "coastal cruiser". Certainly in the summer some owners take them on long passages, but they aren't designed to stand up to a Cape Horn type storm, while the Tartan is. That's why the Cat 36 is less expensive. But again, for island hopping inside of Peuget Sound, often in light air, what's the point of having the heavier Tartan?
*ahem*....Uhh, Ken the Tartan is not heavier
than the C36. I think you'll find that the Tartan 3500 is listed as around 12,000 lbs (http://www.tartanyachts.com/models/3500/specframe.html) and the C36 is listed around 14,500. The Tartan is a cored hulled boat and the Catalina 36 is a solid hull. I will be the first to tell you that the weight of my C36 is probably closer 17,000 and the listed specs are very optimistic these days. And weight alone doesn't a blue water crusier make. I has an effect yes, but it matters more where its placed. (Lower the better) . Plus the Tartan doesn't have more tankage....etc, etc. Not that those factors aren't important for long distance cruising, but you are over simplifying it *way* too much. It can aid in sea motion, but a lot of long distance saiors claim that length of the boat is more important in many ways. Now don't get me wrong because a lighter boat like the Tartan is better in lots of different ways, it takes less sail area to acheive the required "horsepower" to push the boat through the seas, Less sail area to handle, faster transit, etc, etc. I'll go back to my original comment of "blue water capable"...any of these boats could make it across oceans, in fact I know many C36's that have done it. In fact, go back through many "Lats & Atts" magazines and you'll see quite a few belong to Catalina's Cruisers Hall of fame listing all the places some people have been in them. I personally know someone (Alaskan Po' Boy" who has sailed his boat all over from Alaska, up the east coast, etc, etc) Too many people make the same mistake you do with assumptions on what is and isn't "Blue Water" boats. Now I am the first the say that the build quality of the Tartan is probably a cut above the other boats on the list and thats where you got your erroneous assumptions. The bigger reasons the Tartan is more expensive it that it has a lot more labor intensive features and details, like the very nice woodworking below, producing a properly built Cored hull, more teak all around, etc, etc, etc.
than the C36. I think you'll find that the Tartan 3500 is listed as around 12,000 lbs (http://www.tartanyachts.com/models/3500/specframe.html) and the C36 is listed around 14,500. The Tartan is a cored hulled boat and the Catalina 36 is a solid hull. I will be the first to tell you that the weight of my C36 is probably closer 17,000 and the listed specs are very optimistic these days. And weight alone doesn't a blue water crusier make. I has an effect yes, but it matters more where its placed. (Lower the better) . Plus the Tartan doesn't have more tankage....etc, etc. Not that those factors aren't important for long distance cruising, but you are over simplifying it *way* too much. It can aid in sea motion, but a lot of long distance saiors claim that length of the boat is more important in many ways. Now don't get me wrong because a lighter boat like the Tartan is better in lots of different ways, it takes less sail area to acheive the required "horsepower" to push the boat through the seas, Less sail area to handle, faster transit, etc, etc. I'll go back to my original comment of "blue water capable"...any of these boats could make it across oceans, in fact I know many C36's that have done it. In fact, go back through many "Lats & Atts" magazines and you'll see quite a few belong to Catalina's Cruisers Hall of fame listing all the places some people have been in them. I personally know someone (Alaskan Po' Boy" who has sailed his boat all over from Alaska, up the east coast, etc, etc) Too many people make the same mistake you do with assumptions on what is and isn't "Blue Water" boats. Now I am the first the say that the build quality of the Tartan is probably a cut above the other boats on the list and thats where you got your erroneous assumptions. The bigger reasons the Tartan is more expensive it that it has a lot more labor intensive features and details, like the very nice woodworking below, producing a properly built Cored hull, more teak all around, etc, etc, etc.
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