Which boat? Based Only On Specs.

AlastairLC

AlastairLC

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Jan 2, 2017
765
O'Day & Islander 322 & 37 Scottsdale, AZ & Owls Head, ME
Which boat would you choose for day sailing on the Northeast coast?
Boat A: LOA 35.5’; Disp 13,000; S.A./Disp 17.34; Bal/Disp 40; Disp/Len 241; Comfort Ratio 25.68; PHRF 123.
Boat B: LOA 32.7’; Disp 9,450; S.A./Disp 18.35; Bal/Disp 42; Disp/Len 235; Comfort Ratio 22.68; PHRF 132.
All thoughts greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
D

dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
11,414
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
My experience has been the amount of daysailing, out for a few hours in the afternoon, is inversely proportional to the amount of work required to go sailing.

A small light easily rigged and sailed boat gets sailed more than a larger heavier boat that requires more effort to rig, sail, and dock.

With that in mind I would opt for the 32' ft boat. The sails will be easier to hoist, easier to trim. Docking will be easier because a 9K lbs boat is easier to stop at the dock and handle at the dock than a 13K lbs boat. Come spring and fall there is less boat to wash, wax, bottom paint, and otherwise maintain. Storage fees will likely be lower too.

On the other hand if the 32 ft boat does not set your heart atwitter, and the 36' boat does, then by all means go for the big boat.
 
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Don S/V ILLusion

Don S/V ILLusion

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Sep 25, 2008
7,096
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
While it might be an interesting academic exercise to look, I wouldn’t choose a boat based on the data. Age, maintenance history, condition and equipment are among the criteria I’d use to base a purchase decision.
My wife would prioritize comfort over all others.

Full disclosure - if it didn’t have A/C and an ice maker, it’s unlivable and unacceptable so you may not want to value my opinion.
 
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AlastairLC

AlastairLC

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Jan 2, 2017
765
O'Day & Islander 322 & 37 Scottsdale, AZ & Owls Head, ME
Don S/V ILLusion said:
I wouldn’t choose a boat based on the data
Click to expand
I agree. I just thought it would be interesting to hear which specs would lead you to choose one over the other, all other attributes being equal.
 
Tally Ho

Tally Ho

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Jan 7, 2011
4,764
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
Well, if this is purely an academic exercise, I would go with the 35-footer...
I sail a 32-footer now, which is close to the specs above...and I am about ready to move up.

I would go to a 37-40 footer, but that is not an option.

Greg
 
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jssailem

jssailem

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Oct 22, 2014
21,098
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
I have a 35 ft boat and that boat is just about all the sail and size that can be easily managed by a solo sailor.

I like the logic expressed by @dlochner regarding the weight of sails and the boat size management.

This boat is identified as a Day-Sailer. As such you do not need much beyond great cockpit/deck spaces and a hull that rewards you for raising the sails.

The 32 ft boat would accomplish these goals. If one considers the length, you can design more grace and speed into a larger boat. So I would choose the 35.5 boat based on that premise.
 
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JK_Boston_Catalina310

JK_Boston_Catalina310

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Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
jssailem said:
I have a 35 ft boat and that boat is just about all the sail and size that can be easily managed by a solo sailor.

I like the logic expressed by @dlochner regarding the weight of sails and the boat size management.

This boat is identified as a Day-Sailer. As such you do not need much beyond great cockpit/deck spaces and a hull that rewards you for raising the sails.

The 32 ft boat would accomplish these goals. If one considers the length, you can design more grace and speed into a larger boat. So I would choose the 35.5 boat based on that premise.
Click to expand
I've solo'd up to 64 foot mono sloops, 56 foot mono ketches and 56 foot catamarans. My personal preference is 40 feet or less for both mono and cats as a cruiser. The loads are less and more manageable solo.
 
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PaulK

PaulK

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Dec 1, 2009
1,241
Sabre 402 Southport, CT
It surprises me that the PHRF rating for the smaller boat is so much slower than the heavier one. The smaller boat has a better sail area to displacement ratio, it is lighter, and it not that much shorter than the other. Dlochner and Jssailem both make good points. For daysailing in the light-air NE, 13,000 pounds is a lot to make move. The shorter, lighter boat seems like it would be more fun to sail.
 
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AlastairLC

AlastairLC

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Jan 2, 2017
765
O'Day & Islander 322 & 37 Scottsdale, AZ & Owls Head, ME
Thanks all for your good comments
I’m particularly interested in any thoughts about the other specs, viz.,
S.A/Disp, Bal/Disp, & Disp/Len all point to boat B being more high performance, stiff/powerful, and light cruiser type, and yet boat A has the lower PHRF, which should mean it's faster. Huh?
Boat A has a higher Comfort Ratio and would naturally have a higher hull speed.
The conflicting indicators have me scratching my head.
 
AlastairLC

AlastairLC

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Jan 2, 2017
765
O'Day & Islander 322 & 37 Scottsdale, AZ & Owls Head, ME
PaulK said:
For daysailing in the light-air
Click to expand
PaulK, our posts passed in the either. I have the same puzzlement.
Where I’ll be sailing the winds are usually 10-15 knots (Ideal for me).
I’ll probably add what I use now for the light winds on Lake Pleasant: a Code 0 and asym. spin.
 
Davidasailor26

Davidasailor26

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May 17, 2004
5,077
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
AlastairLC said:
Thanks all for your good comments
I’m particularly interested in any thoughts about the other specs, viz.,
S.A/Disp, Bal/Disp, & Disp/Len all point to boat B being more high performance, stiff/powerful, and light cruiser type, and yet boat A has the lower PHRF, which should mean it's faster. Huh?
Boat A has a higher Comfort Ratio and would naturally have a higher hull speed.
The conflicting indicators have me scratching my head.
Click to expand
PHRF pretty strongly favors waterline length, so I’m not too surprised by the fact that A rates faster. Looking at PHRF base handicaps I think you’ll find that within any given manufacturer / line 9 seconds per mile is not a huge delta for the extra 3’ of length. Many models have a bigger delta than that for the extra length, so I think it’s fair to say this 35 footer isn’t as “fast”, foot for foot, as the 32.

For day sailing I might be inclined to pick the 32, all else being equal. Dockage, maintenance, sails, etc will all be lower cost with it. Even though it might be a little slower to get from place to place it will likely “feel” faster and more responsive, making for a better sailing experience even if the top end speed is lower. For cruising, open water, or even spending many overnights, I’d likely chose the extra space of the 35, but for day sailing the 32 seems a better fit.
 
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J

JohnShannon

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Jan 4, 2010
1,037
Farr 30 San Francisco
Does A or B carry all its ballast on a bulb at the end of a long keel? That would dramatically increase the righting moment and hence sail carrying power. Is one of these designs beamier than the other? This affects RM
 
D

dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
11,414
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Do not put a lot of faith in PHRF numbers as they are driven by who is sailing the boat and where the boat is being sailed. Also, 9 seconds/mile is a trivial difference in actual boat speed. PHRF numbers have no relationship to any physical properties of the boat, unlike other ratings which require a variety of hull and rig measurements.
 
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jssailem

jssailem

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Oct 22, 2014
21,098
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
AlastairLC said:
Boat A has a higher Comfort Ratio and would naturally have a higher hull speed.
Click to expand
I do not believe this is true. The comfort ratio is about boat motion. A small boat is moving/rocking quickly in motion. These changes are brutal on the inner ear.

Hull speed is based on length in the water and design of hull.
 
T

twistedskipper

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Aug 12, 2018
163
Hunter 26 Carter Lake, Colorado
Based on those numbers, for day sailing (nothing originally said about racing), I’d choose the smaller boat if it is big enough (for the anticipated crew/guest list size, with a nice enough head and places to lounge/read/nap).

For what they’re worth, to me those numbers are all too close to be the discriminators, other than length and displacement. LWL might make it more interesting.
 
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