Which battery to buy? (and all the other stuff!!)

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John Denney

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Oct 30, 2019
114
Hi all, As the new owner of a Vega which has remained dormant for some time I was not surprised to find that the batteries were at zero volts and stubbornly remained there!

I need 3 batteries - one for the engine and two for lights, stereo, tv and other important stuff! I thought it would be a simple matter but it seems to be quite confusing - ie different types of battery and different charging regimes.

I have a standard Volvo MD6 with an alternator, A wind turbine (Forgen 500) and a small solar panel. The turbine and solar panel are not fitted (yet).

Is there a "standard" battery set up anyone can recommend and also do I need one of the smart charger things...... also how do I arrange for all these charging systems to be connected? May also need shore power and a mains charging system.... my brain is fried just thinking about it!!!!
 
T

tom_rutter

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Aug 3, 2005
66
Yes. The only disadvantage is that your GPS might turn off while you start
the engine (as voltage goes down temporarily).
 
N

n4lbl

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Oct 7, 2008
307
My previous owner kept the boat t a slip with a dual battery charger on all
the time. The charger was one of the "three mode" kind that isn't supposed
to overcharge. My batteries are fried. The house battery (a so-called
deep cycle) has some yellow visible on the plates and I jump to the
conclusion that the constant charging sulphated it. The starter battery is
a so-called maintenance free (I view that name very cynically) and I can't
peep inside.

Using east-of-the-Atlantic naming conventions my boat came with two "group
24" batteries, one a starting battery (good for very high and short
duration loads) and the other a house or deep cycle battery designed for
modest but long duration loads. They are switched with an off, 1, 2, and
both switch. I hope to replace one with a group 27 starter battery. For
the house battery I may chose a group 27 or 31, or perhaps two 6 volt golf
cart batteries. I haven't done my homework yet.

I presume your batteries are in your keel as mine are. The measurements of
the keel area on that I wrote down are are length = 37", width = 6" (just
forward of fuel tank) and depth = 10". I wish I could check these figures
but the boat is 2000 miles away. The width is wrong as I have the
batteries here and their width is 6 1/2". I hope that that is the only
error.

I'll try to find some online reading matter later and pass it along.

Alan
Minke, #2505
 
P

pjacobs55

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Oct 30, 2019
1,459
Does this guy have a job? LOL

Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.
111 Commercial St.
Portland ME 04101
207/772-2191
Fax 207/774-3940

We are moving! As of December 1, our physical address will be 120 Exchange
Street, Portland (top of Exchange, at the corner of Congress and Exchange).

This email is from a law firm and may contain information
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please delete it and contact us.
 
T

tiempo2010

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Sep 24, 2008
346
One good solution is to buy 2 golf cart batteries for the house bank - wire
them is series for 12 volts. They are the most durable affordable battery
made and have thick plates which is what you want in a deep cycle battery.
For the start battery a good cranking battery is fine. I would stick to
flooded batteries as they are the best value and nowhere near as fussy
about charging as gel or agm batteries are.

For the battery wiring the most trouble free system is to use your battery
switch for selecting the batteries and keep the charging away from it. Run
all charge sources to the house bank and charge the start battery with
either a VSR (ACR in North America) or a Xantrex Echo Charge. Both of these
items will charge the start battery automatically when a charge voltage is
present. although they work a bit differently. The VSR parallels the banks
while the Echo passes up to 15 amps to the start battery. My preference is
the Echo for several reasons. For one it doesn't need large cables and
expensive fusing that a VSR does. For another if the start battery is used
for starting only it is seldom down more than an AH or two.

My preferred way to use a system wired this way is the use the house banl
for everything including engine starting. When you arrive at the boat you
turn the switch (a 1/2/both switch) to the house bank position (#1) and
when you leave turn it to off. The start battery becomes an emergency
battery and is always fully charged by the Echo (or VSR). The house bank
will start an engine up to 60 or so hp without a problem.

The both position on the switch is never used except in the unlikely event
that the Echo or VSR fails - if that happens both banks can be charged with
the switch in the both position.

This system requires no input from you for its operation. Even if the
switch is turned to the off position while the engine is running there will
be no damage to the alternator.

Just yesterday I installed an Echo Charge on a 44' sailboat and
reconfigured the battery wiring to suit.

Hope this helps.
 
P

pjacobs55

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Oct 30, 2019
1,459
Sin Tacha has 2 six volt golf cart batteries (in series) located in the bilge battery locker. Some very minor trimming was required under the lip of the lid frame to get them in.
As a starting/emergency battery there's a small car battery in the forward end of the port cockpit locker.
Power in and out is controlled at the battery switch, but Brian Stannard's post #18929 suggests a better way, which I'll look into (Thanks Brian!)

My solar panel is connected to both banks through a Flexcharge PV7D charge controller.
It sends current to both banks without interconnecting them.

This has been a satisfactory setup so far, as my power requirements are modest, using LED lighting and not having refrigeration.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
www.sintacha.com
 
J

johnadenney

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Oct 30, 2011
221
Many thanks one and all... I think I get the general drift. I will nip to Costco and get the batteries asap. On another, related, issue - whilst inspecting the engine I noticed that the starter motor looks more like a dynamo? It runs up smoothly and turns the engine via a couple of belts - I think? It is certainly not a standard starter motor? Does it charge the batteries - if so, whats the alternator for?

Oh, and no I don't have a job. The economy in the UK is pretty well knackered! I guess its similar in the States?
 
N

n4lbl

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Oct 7, 2008
307
My MD6A (Volvo) has two belts to a starter/generator (yup, generator, not
alternator) and one belt to an alternator.
 
V

Vega1447

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Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
Hi John. I have same setup as you, a dynastart that acts as starter motor via 2 drive belts to flywheel.
And an alternator driven from the flywheel via a third drive belt.

I also have an MD6A - I bought my Vega in 2005 and in the six years since have learned a lot with the help of the gurus on the list incl Steve Birch.

If I can help I will but there are many more knowledgeable than I.

Sorry to hear you are out of work. The Irish economy is even more b****red than the UK if that's any consolation.

John V1447 Breakaway

John Kinsella
Mathematics and Statistics Dept
University of Limerick

Phone 0035361202148
Web jkcray.maths.ul.ie
 
J

johnadenney

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Oct 30, 2011
221
How weird - anyone any idea how this set up works - surely both the generator and the alternator are not required to charge the batteries...
 
T

tiempo2010

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Sep 24, 2008
346
Sounds like it could be a Dynastart, which was a starter/generator used by
Volvo decades ago. The alternator would be an upgrade since then.
 
V

Vega1447

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Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
The dynastart just acts as a starter motor when you have an alternator AFAIK the original installation would have been dynastart only (acting as both starter & dynamo) but as alternators are more efficient either a previous owner installed one or maybe it was an option at time of purchase.

John V1447 Breakaway

John Kinsella
Mathematics and Statistics Dept
University of Limerick

Phone 0035361202148
Web jkcray.maths.ul.ie
 
D

dougpol1

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Feb 13, 2010
528
I understand that the engines were first built way back as Industial or
stationary engines for pumps and the like early on they had not starters
at all. They added starters and they needed to charge ths starting
battery this a starter generatr that by the way charged at 6 amps. That
was okay on boats wit kero running lights and cabin lanterns. Then we
sailors got all modern and wanted elctric lights, refrigeration. They
met the minimum requirement with an alternate 35 amp, pretty small by
todays standards. By the way there are many smaller tractors that have
the same starter generator combinatins and may of the parts are
enterchangebal. Some Yamaha motorcyles have the same arangement and many
of the internal parts are the same. I had mine rebuilt last spring and
thats what we used. Works a charm! Almost all this stuff is
interchangeblae if you can finds the soueces. Bosh made most of it
originally but the stuff is made all over the world now under b Bosh
licences The trouble is you have to figure out what will work and what
won't. Doug
 
N

n4lbl

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Oct 7, 2008
307
The MD 6A instruction book and workshop manual refer to the
starter/generator (which I also have heard called Dynastart) and the
optional alternator. From the instruction book: "As extra equipment, an
alternator with particularly high charging capacity can be installed for
charging a separate battery circuit". I had been under the impression that
the two outputs were additive but now wonder. I'll try to decipher the
schematic.

The starter/generator is 135 watts max, 90 watts continuous. The
alternator described in the MD 7A part of the workshop manual is 490 watts,
35 amps. I'd bet that it is the same alternator.

Are these manuals widely available?? Should I scan them and upload them??

Alan
Minke #2505
 
S

stevebirch2002

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Nov 8, 2001
1,818
The alternator charges one battery and the Dynastart charges the other. Two seperate systems, ideal.

You need to join the VAGB (Vega Assocition of Great Britain). Peanuts in cost and loads of techie info including teh much vaunted VAGB Members CDROMCheers

Steve B
 
D

dougpol1

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Feb 13, 2010
528
The starter generator has a cellnoid to to engage the starter and
controll the charging of the generator. In adition there is a charge
controller, voltage regulaor,for the alternator Mine is solid state so
it likely is not the original. I need a new celinoid because mine keeps
the generator engaged all the time and drains the battery. So I have to
turn my starting battery switch off everytime I shut the engine down. I
will fix that one way or another. I understand that the tractor
celenoids will work so I have to get one and try it. Probobly in the
spring for that. I have a small owners manual and a rebuild manual for
the engine. Seems to me I have seen them both online. Will scan copy
and post if anybody needs one and can't find it. Doug
n 11/09/2011 01:56 PM, n4lbl wrote:
 
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