Older Catalina 27's don't come with bilge pumps. After entering my boat in the fall and discovering it had 14 inches of water throughout and emptying it, I resolved to add a bilge pump (electric). A chap is installing one for me and is convinced I should have a through the hull, with check valve in the system, above the water line, substantially above it, for the bilge to drain. I keep thinking about a radical heel with water line up to the bottom of the stantions, with the water lapping at this through the hull. The Catalina 27 is a 75, old dinette style - dinette amidships. Any suggestions where the through the hull can be? Or any comments would be helpful.
Where to put the through the hull or alternatives
- Thread starter rsn48
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bilge hose
on my C27, outboard, dinette, the bilge hose runs from the electric pump up through a manual pump beneath the starboard cockpit bench, along the pilot berth wall, through the plywood bulkhead, then out through the drain in the motor well. I have check valves but they're not too reliable, so the hose is looped in the motor well to prevent siphoning.
on my C27, outboard, dinette, the bilge hose runs from the electric pump up through a manual pump beneath the starboard cockpit bench, along the pilot berth wall, through the plywood bulkhead, then out through the drain in the motor well. I have check valves but they're not too reliable, so the hose is looped in the motor well to prevent siphoning.
Joe & rsn48 ....
Joe, rsn48 had his motor opening filled in and a nifty hydraulic lift and tilt system installed.. I assume he had the drain in the well filled also. Installing a through hull off the stern may cause dirty bilge water to spew all over the motor and lift system. I have mine set up similar to yours, but to the port side locker. Still haven’t added the check valve. ( I’m using an 800gph pump, better too much than not enough ) R, you may want to run the water out line through the port locker and into the motor well compartment, exit the line out the port side near the stern corner, just below the rub rail. Even on heal, you’ll still have the through hull above water. A check valve is a good plan but should be placed someplace along the hose where it’s vertical. The reason I suggest the port side is, if your C27’s like mine, that’s a much bigger and deeper locker. Oh yeah, at the back of the bilge, you’ll find the hose will fit neatly under the sole and come out in the inboard motor aria. (on my boat, we call it the basement) From there, it can enter the port locker high’ish up, near the back of the locker and into the outboard well. Later, eh! Ferg
Joe, rsn48 had his motor opening filled in and a nifty hydraulic lift and tilt system installed.. I assume he had the drain in the well filled also. Installing a through hull off the stern may cause dirty bilge water to spew all over the motor and lift system. I have mine set up similar to yours, but to the port side locker. Still haven’t added the check valve. ( I’m using an 800gph pump, better too much than not enough ) R, you may want to run the water out line through the port locker and into the motor well compartment, exit the line out the port side near the stern corner, just below the rub rail. Even on heal, you’ll still have the through hull above water. A check valve is a good plan but should be placed someplace along the hose where it’s vertical. The reason I suggest the port side is, if your C27’s like mine, that’s a much bigger and deeper locker. Oh yeah, at the back of the bilge, you’ll find the hose will fit neatly under the sole and come out in the inboard motor aria. (on my boat, we call it the basement) From there, it can enter the port locker high’ish up, near the back of the locker and into the outboard well. Later, eh! Ferg
Ferq has pretty much described the method
Catalina used for the later 27's like my 270. Pump is located well aft on port side under aft cabin floor boards. Discharge is thru hull above waterline but closer to half way between WL and rubrail. Don't think it gets submerged much, if the rail is in the water at the beam, by the transom it is still slightly above. I seem to recall the discharge actually points down and is just a foot or so above the surface.
Catalina used for the later 27's like my 270. Pump is located well aft on port side under aft cabin floor boards. Discharge is thru hull above waterline but closer to half way between WL and rubrail. Don't think it gets submerged much, if the rail is in the water at the beam, by the transom it is still slightly above. I seem to recall the discharge actually points down and is just a foot or so above the surface.
Well, I'm learning
I did have the transom mount opening filled in, and by accident the drain hole was plugged from the fiberglassing. I had a funny problem where the gas tank and propane tank mounted on the platforms in the cockpit were held down by a stronger type of all rubber bungee cord, kind of like a snubber. They were connected to eye bolts; but the bolts had become very very loose and much larger holes than the original drilled existed. When the cockpit filled with rain water, the water continued down into the transom storage area; then the water flowed through the eye bolt holes into my boat filling it with water (about 14 inches), during one of our long fall monsoons we get here in the Pacific Northwest (or West Coast of BC). The solution? First I took out all the eye bolts and filled in the holes. Secondly, I had installed scupper filters to keep out the shells; the shells would plug the hole from draining. I had the old drain hole re-drilled to a much larger size. Finally I added another through hull in the transom. I had the two scuppers connected by rubber tubing (the same as sink tubing) so the tube ran across the back from scupper to scupper (abeam). Tee'd into this hose was another hose going to my new through hull. So I have separate drainage for the cockpit, so it doesn't flow into the transom storage area. And I have a drainage through hull (the old one) for any water that might make it into the enclosed transom storage area. I've been researching and the chap in "This Old Boat" - Don Casey - says: "A check valve might initially keep the water from draining back into the bilge, but deposits of debris and detritus from the bilge water will soon prevent the valve from sealing. Besides, a check valve in a bilge pump discharge line is a bad idea because it reduces the output and introduces a real risk of blockage." (p. 281) I was panicking about putting a through hull in an area above the water line, it just didn't sound like good seamanship; however I have now found a couple of references where a through hull can be fitted high on the boat. Sounds like a good idea to have one fitted high and near the stern. I see Casey also recommends a very large electric bilge pump (around 3,500 gallons per hour) that can be turned on and off with a switch. Since I will have four gold cart batteries installed and my inverter, I think I will use my new electric bilge pump I bought from home depot on hand to plug into an ac outlet if larger volumes come in from whatever crisis I have on hand. This larger bilge pump came in handy when I had my boat flooded, and kept re-flooding until I discovered where the water was coming from. In one document I printed out from the web, the author recommends wiring the electric bilge pump(like the Rule pump) directly to the battery, with in line fuse. He says many of the boats he has seen filling with water occured because the fuse, or trip didn't work, the bilge pump was therefore turned off by the faulty problem and the boat filled. I have also seen that a boat my size (27 feet) should have at least two pumps, preferably three.
I did have the transom mount opening filled in, and by accident the drain hole was plugged from the fiberglassing. I had a funny problem where the gas tank and propane tank mounted on the platforms in the cockpit were held down by a stronger type of all rubber bungee cord, kind of like a snubber. They were connected to eye bolts; but the bolts had become very very loose and much larger holes than the original drilled existed. When the cockpit filled with rain water, the water continued down into the transom storage area; then the water flowed through the eye bolt holes into my boat filling it with water (about 14 inches), during one of our long fall monsoons we get here in the Pacific Northwest (or West Coast of BC). The solution? First I took out all the eye bolts and filled in the holes. Secondly, I had installed scupper filters to keep out the shells; the shells would plug the hole from draining. I had the old drain hole re-drilled to a much larger size. Finally I added another through hull in the transom. I had the two scuppers connected by rubber tubing (the same as sink tubing) so the tube ran across the back from scupper to scupper (abeam). Tee'd into this hose was another hose going to my new through hull. So I have separate drainage for the cockpit, so it doesn't flow into the transom storage area. And I have a drainage through hull (the old one) for any water that might make it into the enclosed transom storage area. I've been researching and the chap in "This Old Boat" - Don Casey - says: "A check valve might initially keep the water from draining back into the bilge, but deposits of debris and detritus from the bilge water will soon prevent the valve from sealing. Besides, a check valve in a bilge pump discharge line is a bad idea because it reduces the output and introduces a real risk of blockage." (p. 281) I was panicking about putting a through hull in an area above the water line, it just didn't sound like good seamanship; however I have now found a couple of references where a through hull can be fitted high on the boat. Sounds like a good idea to have one fitted high and near the stern. I see Casey also recommends a very large electric bilge pump (around 3,500 gallons per hour) that can be turned on and off with a switch. Since I will have four gold cart batteries installed and my inverter, I think I will use my new electric bilge pump I bought from home depot on hand to plug into an ac outlet if larger volumes come in from whatever crisis I have on hand. This larger bilge pump came in handy when I had my boat flooded, and kept re-flooding until I discovered where the water was coming from. In one document I printed out from the web, the author recommends wiring the electric bilge pump(like the Rule pump) directly to the battery, with in line fuse. He says many of the boats he has seen filling with water occured because the fuse, or trip didn't work, the bilge pump was therefore turned off by the faulty problem and the boat filled. I have also seen that a boat my size (27 feet) should have at least two pumps, preferably three.
Current practice is for the bilge pump to be wired
directly to batteries so it is always powered regardless of battery switch position. Also in the circuit is a 2 position switch labeled "auto" and manual. The manual turns pump on, in auto it is turned on & off by the float switch.
directly to batteries so it is always powered regardless of battery switch position. Also in the circuit is a 2 position switch labeled "auto" and manual. The manual turns pump on, in auto it is turned on & off by the float switch.
So here is my evolving thinking re: bilge pumps
I also posted this thread on another forum and received a reply back with several good web links to bilge "issues." The best one, in my opinion is the one I have listed below. In the following, I'm responding to Gordon in the other forum for his helpful response with many web sites: "I read the resources you have listed above Gordon: and I also plowed into Casey's Old Boat book. I have decided to take the advice of one your links posted and have multiple pumps. The old Catalina 27 boat with the dinette amidships is really fragmented when it comes to compartments. I have a few electrical panels, switches, etc fairly low in the boat and I know they won't respond well to intrusive water. I have decided to put a pump in every compartment where my electrical items are, plus one in my shallow bilge. This means a total of four pumps (which one of the link authors recommended (a pump for each separate compartment). This might sound like over kill, but I liked the advice other than worrying about hull and deck integrity, the bilge pump issue and boats flooding should be addressed next over rigging, electronics, etc. This only makes sense. The smaller Rule bilge motors with incorporated floats are cheap, cheaper than replacing some of my electrical panels. I filled in the transom mount area found on older Catalina 27's. So I have an enclosed transom compartment which houses my gas and propane on platforms. I am going to pump the water into this area which has a through hull drain - which I enlarged over the old small ridiculous hole provided by Catalina which was guaranteed to plug quickly. The chart recommends 3 pumps for a 27 foot boat, I will be using four. Here's the link you provided that I think is the best of the lot: http://www.yachtsurvey.com/bilge_pumps.htm I'm editing this in for those who read the above article I linked to. I have had a sailboat twice fill with water. After those experiences, I have become concerned about proper water drainage during critical moments on the pond, but also water build up from something as benign as rain.
I also posted this thread on another forum and received a reply back with several good web links to bilge "issues." The best one, in my opinion is the one I have listed below. In the following, I'm responding to Gordon in the other forum for his helpful response with many web sites: "I read the resources you have listed above Gordon: and I also plowed into Casey's Old Boat book. I have decided to take the advice of one your links posted and have multiple pumps. The old Catalina 27 boat with the dinette amidships is really fragmented when it comes to compartments. I have a few electrical panels, switches, etc fairly low in the boat and I know they won't respond well to intrusive water. I have decided to put a pump in every compartment where my electrical items are, plus one in my shallow bilge. This means a total of four pumps (which one of the link authors recommended (a pump for each separate compartment). This might sound like over kill, but I liked the advice other than worrying about hull and deck integrity, the bilge pump issue and boats flooding should be addressed next over rigging, electronics, etc. This only makes sense. The smaller Rule bilge motors with incorporated floats are cheap, cheaper than replacing some of my electrical panels. I filled in the transom mount area found on older Catalina 27's. So I have an enclosed transom compartment which houses my gas and propane on platforms. I am going to pump the water into this area which has a through hull drain - which I enlarged over the old small ridiculous hole provided by Catalina which was guaranteed to plug quickly. The chart recommends 3 pumps for a 27 foot boat, I will be using four. Here's the link you provided that I think is the best of the lot: http://www.yachtsurvey.com/bilge_pumps.htm I'm editing this in for those who read the above article I linked to. I have had a sailboat twice fill with water. After those experiences, I have become concerned about proper water drainage during critical moments on the pond, but also water build up from something as benign as rain.
You might want to re-consider your no bilge pump
Here is the introduction in the link I provided on bilge pumps. I'm one of those whose boat has been flooded twice by water, once sea water, latter rain water. In the sea water scenario the electric bilge pump wouldn't work and the handle on the manual pump snapped off as the boat was slowly filling up with water at least a half hour sail away from the yacht club - back in 1984 many boats didn't have VHF - this one didn't. So now I take bilge pumps real seriously. But back to the introduction from the link (and I quote): "Sail boaters are the absolute worst in this regard. For some strange reason, many of them just don't think that bilge pumps are important. Somehow they rationalize the idea that nothing is ever going to cause their hulls to suddenly flood, so a minimal pumping system is all that is really needed. As in just one pump. I never ceased to be amazed at the number of sailors who argue with me that one pump is enough. After all, the builder built it that way, and they have that nifty manual pump back there in the cockpit and that can really pump a lot of water. More about that later. FYI: Proportionately more sailboats flounder at sea even though powerboats outnumber them 8:1. Of course, sailors are not alone in this attitude. For every sailor who thinks little about bilge pumps, there are probably three power boaters with the same attitude. So why the widespread lack of concern? Well, its the same old problem of lack of experience; its not until they have a problem that they become convinced of the seriousness of it." So you might want to rethink your water evacuation plan on your boat some more.
Here is the introduction in the link I provided on bilge pumps. I'm one of those whose boat has been flooded twice by water, once sea water, latter rain water. In the sea water scenario the electric bilge pump wouldn't work and the handle on the manual pump snapped off as the boat was slowly filling up with water at least a half hour sail away from the yacht club - back in 1984 many boats didn't have VHF - this one didn't. So now I take bilge pumps real seriously. But back to the introduction from the link (and I quote): "Sail boaters are the absolute worst in this regard. For some strange reason, many of them just don't think that bilge pumps are important. Somehow they rationalize the idea that nothing is ever going to cause their hulls to suddenly flood, so a minimal pumping system is all that is really needed. As in just one pump. I never ceased to be amazed at the number of sailors who argue with me that one pump is enough. After all, the builder built it that way, and they have that nifty manual pump back there in the cockpit and that can really pump a lot of water. More about that later. FYI: Proportionately more sailboats flounder at sea even though powerboats outnumber them 8:1. Of course, sailors are not alone in this attitude. For every sailor who thinks little about bilge pumps, there are probably three power boaters with the same attitude. So why the widespread lack of concern? Well, its the same old problem of lack of experience; its not until they have a problem that they become convinced of the seriousness of it." So you might want to rethink your water evacuation plan on your boat some more.
Thanks
I like David Pascoe's articles and I'll give it some more thought. I am not convinced that a C22 on a lake needs a bilge pump. Heck, the "bilge" is about 1" deep. Larger boats have more thru-hulls, the prop shaft, etc. to deal with.
I like David Pascoe's articles and I'll give it some more thought. I am not convinced that a C22 on a lake needs a bilge pump. Heck, the "bilge" is about 1" deep. Larger boats have more thru-hulls, the prop shaft, etc. to deal with.
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