I would like to add a set of Genoa cars to my Mac 26C. I have a 150% Genoa and was wondering how you would decide how far back the track should be from the clew when pulled in close hauled. Haven't been able to find this info anywhere. Real estate is rather resctrictive, but there a 2 possable places.
Where to place Genoa cars
- Thread starter chp
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As a general rule, locate the average genoa car track location by doing the following. Mark the luff of your headsail at the midpoint. Draw a line or use a piece of tape to project a line that runs from the midpoint of the luff to the clew. Project this line until it intersect the deck. This should be your average genoa car location. Your track should be at least 12 inches forward and aft of that point. If you adjust your genoa cars for different points of sail, you would want to extend the tracks further forward so you can trim properly when reaching. If you have multiple headsails or roller furling, you have to determine the most forward and aft locations for those sails too. For best pointing ability, you want to locate the track as inboard a practical. 9-12 degrees off the centerline of the boat is about average but the exact location has a lot to do with your keel profile. Ask your sailmaker or boat manufacturer for suggestions. If deck real estate is limited, you'll have less options.
On a 150% genoa.... I would not place the track as far inboard as Ted recommended.... I would set the track on the rail because the Mac 26s has a pretty narrow beam anyway.... and you can always barber-haul it inboard if you want to narrow the angle. Most "genoa tracks" are mounted further outboard than those designed for flatter, workng jibs.
The fact is, you don't have that many locations on your boat suitable for a long, inboard track anyway.... and the 150 will extend well beyound the cabin top, unless you're running a low clewed decksweeping sail.. in which case you probably wouldn't even be asking this question.
Roll the sail out and split the angle at the clew created by the foot and leech. this should point to the mid point on the luff. That small line will indicate the neutral position and should also point to the middle of your track. You could extend the track another 18-24 inches behind that point for further adjustment.... but... before you decide on the forward extension.. roll the sail up to your most likely maximum reef and see where the neutral line falls.... then make your decision.
Here's another suggestion..... don't buy Harken track! It's proprietary and you will have to purchase harken cars to fit it. Just purchase the basic 1 inch "T" track. Many manufacturers produce accessories that fit this basic track. Try GarhauerMarine, Schaeffer, Ronstan... You'll find the Ronstan teflon base sliders a fair priced product. Later when you want to move up to roller bearing cars or the very cool Garhaure EZ glide system, they will fit right on the existing T-track you so wisely installed earlier.
The next suggestion is.... once you have the cars installed.... USE THEM!
The fact is, you don't have that many locations on your boat suitable for a long, inboard track anyway.... and the 150 will extend well beyound the cabin top, unless you're running a low clewed decksweeping sail.. in which case you probably wouldn't even be asking this question.
Roll the sail out and split the angle at the clew created by the foot and leech. this should point to the mid point on the luff. That small line will indicate the neutral position and should also point to the middle of your track. You could extend the track another 18-24 inches behind that point for further adjustment.... but... before you decide on the forward extension.. roll the sail up to your most likely maximum reef and see where the neutral line falls.... then make your decision.
Here's another suggestion..... don't buy Harken track! It's proprietary and you will have to purchase harken cars to fit it. Just purchase the basic 1 inch "T" track. Many manufacturers produce accessories that fit this basic track. Try GarhauerMarine, Schaeffer, Ronstan... You'll find the Ronstan teflon base sliders a fair priced product. Later when you want to move up to roller bearing cars or the very cool Garhaure EZ glide system, they will fit right on the existing T-track you so wisely installed earlier.
The next suggestion is.... once you have the cars installed.... USE THEM!
on my S2 i am not sure that tracks are required ....when i went to Jacksonville last year and looked at ROK's S2 he was using snatch blocks fasten to the toe rail and suggested that i find some for this purpose...i havent found any yet in my budget range but am looking all the time...have seen some from time to time but none i was able to purchase as of yet ...those rubber coated Narco or Ronstst ones look like they would do the trick ......
regards
woody
regards
woody
No they really wont do the trick. Snatch blocks are mounted to a fixed location or at the very best a toerail with many mounting holes. But getting up to make the needed changes for these blocks becomes extremely cumbersome and as a result no one does it. Genoa car leads NEED to adjusted to produce the correct sail trim. The only way that this will work is having a system that is easy and effective to use. Line adjustable cars are the only real way to make it happen. The alternative is "set it and forget it" which really isn't sailing, it's just being blown around.
If you sail in windstrengths 'other' than 10-12 kts. and you sail at 'other' angles of attack than beating ... then adjustable jib/genoa fairlead cars are an almost absolute NECESSITY.
Alan is entirely correct in stating that 'ultimate' solution is for 'line adjustable' fairlead cars.
Reason: If you want relatively short life from you expensive jib/genoa DO NOT ever move the fairlead car. Doing so will every time you drop down to a reach or below from a beat will cause the upper sections of the leech to flutter uncontrollably and after a few hundred thousand 'flaps' of your leach which fatigues and destroys the fiber integrity of the sail ... simply put it into the trash and buy new. So, ultimately you have a choice: continual new sails on a regular basis or moderately expensive fairlead cars/tracks.
Also, in moderate-strong to 'flukey'/unstable wind flow, the head sail will be vulnerable to sudden 'power-ups' which can over-stress the rig, overstress the sail cloth ... and overstress the crew when they see the boat 'going over' onto its beam ends - knockdown. A sail that is proper trimmed and shaped will not behave 'radically' and 'surprisingly' - safer!
So for those who sail in variable conditions (those who arent emotionally limited to a narrow rage of 'fair weather sailing'), then adjustable fairlead cars are an almost necessity IMHO ..... the car goes forward when the clew goes 'out'/'forward' (reaching) and the car goes back when you need to depower or go onto a 'beat'; ditto when the jib is 'reefed' on a furler. Otherwise you are vulnerable to power-ups and power-downs .... and a 'surprise dunking' when the fair weather turns to 'snot'. .... and Im not talking about trimming and shaping for maximum speed; a cranky boat because of deplorable sail trim/sail shape is vastly more vulnerable to a 'surprise' knockdown, etc.
A boat without adjustable jib/genoa cars is only 'good' for - one single wind speed and one single wave height and one single 'course' direction - the rest will be 'unstable' and 'cranky'.
Alan is entirely correct in stating that 'ultimate' solution is for 'line adjustable' fairlead cars.
Reason: If you want relatively short life from you expensive jib/genoa DO NOT ever move the fairlead car. Doing so will every time you drop down to a reach or below from a beat will cause the upper sections of the leech to flutter uncontrollably and after a few hundred thousand 'flaps' of your leach which fatigues and destroys the fiber integrity of the sail ... simply put it into the trash and buy new. So, ultimately you have a choice: continual new sails on a regular basis or moderately expensive fairlead cars/tracks.
Also, in moderate-strong to 'flukey'/unstable wind flow, the head sail will be vulnerable to sudden 'power-ups' which can over-stress the rig, overstress the sail cloth ... and overstress the crew when they see the boat 'going over' onto its beam ends - knockdown. A sail that is proper trimmed and shaped will not behave 'radically' and 'surprisingly' - safer!
So for those who sail in variable conditions (those who arent emotionally limited to a narrow rage of 'fair weather sailing'), then adjustable fairlead cars are an almost necessity IMHO ..... the car goes forward when the clew goes 'out'/'forward' (reaching) and the car goes back when you need to depower or go onto a 'beat'; ditto when the jib is 'reefed' on a furler. Otherwise you are vulnerable to power-ups and power-downs .... and a 'surprise dunking' when the fair weather turns to 'snot'. .... and Im not talking about trimming and shaping for maximum speed; a cranky boat because of deplorable sail trim/sail shape is vastly more vulnerable to a 'surprise' knockdown, etc.
A boat without adjustable jib/genoa cars is only 'good' for - one single wind speed and one single wave height and one single 'course' direction - the rest will be 'unstable' and 'cranky'.
Thanks for the replys. Yes Rich this is why I want to put on the tracks. Everything you described is the problems I want to solve. The wind here is either 5 knts. or 15-30. I've sailed many times on just the Genoa and furled. No way to get the telltales to flow properly and keep the leech from flapping. I do have a choice of fairleeds to use, but thats a pia to move the sheets. I figured there had to be some sort of measurment to place the tracks. I will now have to see how the measuments work and if I can place the tracks properly.
I have a J-36 with regular cars. There are two cars on each track. Two genoa sheets are always connected and two lazy sheets are for when I need to change the clew location.
One thing I noticed in all the comments is that they say a line half way up the luff to the clew. In reality it is where a line from the clew intercepts the luff at a 90 degree angle or perpendicular. Higher an high cut, lower on a deck sweeper. If you have a cruising genoa then it is usually half way up so that as you furl, the angle to the car remains constant.
In a deck sweeper it is different and if you sail partially furled then the car needs to move forward. Place the track so that your largest headsail will, when sheeted in leave two/three more positions behind the car. This will allow for the stronger breezes when you might want to open the top of the sail and dump air. Although by then you should have less sail area showing.
I have raced my boat every year with fixed leads because I am cheap, but I still mange to win most races I enter including the Rolex regatta 5 times. Also I race with a roller furling.
One thing I noticed in all the comments is that they say a line half way up the luff to the clew. In reality it is where a line from the clew intercepts the luff at a 90 degree angle or perpendicular. Higher an high cut, lower on a deck sweeper. If you have a cruising genoa then it is usually half way up so that as you furl, the angle to the car remains constant.
In a deck sweeper it is different and if you sail partially furled then the car needs to move forward. Place the track so that your largest headsail will, when sheeted in leave two/three more positions behind the car. This will allow for the stronger breezes when you might want to open the top of the sail and dump air. Although by then you should have less sail area showing.
I have raced my boat every year with fixed leads because I am cheap, but I still mange to win most races I enter including the Rolex regatta 5 times. Also I race with a roller furling.
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