I started this topic by taging on to "Holding Tank Vent Odors" but it seems it deserves a string of its own. And I'll tell you all, I'm not particularly happy that I get to author this string, but hey, 8 months on this forum and I have not seen this particular discussion occur. Sure you talk about what should not go in the head...but what do you really do with the toilet paper. I recently went out for a three day sail with another skipper who insisted that all toilet paper go into a plastic bag. That is about enough to make me a daysailor or explode first. The question is, do you put toilet paper in the marine head or do you use some other high tech solution, like a plastic bag or pail? We all seem to agree that human waste can go in the head, but there seems to be some disagreement about the toilet paper. I liked the baby wipe idea...jeeze I need to stay off that boat. Maybe I'm just overly sensative, but I like all the evidence of my dump to essentially disappear. Hell, I'm flabergasted and occasionally embarresed that boat designers have not figured out that opening the hatch during the dump actually causes positive ventilation to the rest of the boat from the head. Until this year I have been primarily a day sailer. Probably spent less than 8 nights at anchor. I have always put toilet paper (in careful quantities) in the marine head. I have sailed 25 days this year so far, and 12 of those days were anchor out overnight and sail the next day trips. I continue to put toilet paper in the head. So there it is...I finally put it out there. What do you do? If you don't put the paper in the head how do your guests really feel about plastic bags and pails? Do they want to sail with you again? I suppose if I ever decide that the head can't handle the toilet paper, I might well become a day sailor again. Just my opinion. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije)
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Careful Quantities and cheap paper
I think you hit the nail on the head when you say careful quantities. I had a friend who will remain nameless that liked to use about half a roll at a single wipe, when she had to reach into the head to remove the clog, she quickly learned to use a much smaller amount of paper. The other thing is to use the thinnest (cheapest) toilet paper, I believe it was Peggy who had a rule about putting a piece of TP into a glass of water to see how quickly it would dissolve and thereby judge the viability of using it in a holding tank. The other item would be to make sure you know how many pumps it takes to move the contents of the bowl to the tank, too few pumps and you have a hose that may contain some remains and slowly cause a clog, too many pumps and you fill the holding tank too quickly. After re-reading the above, I think I have spent too much time thinking about this
Regards. Bruce. Neon Moon
I think you hit the nail on the head when you say careful quantities. I had a friend who will remain nameless that liked to use about half a roll at a single wipe, when she had to reach into the head to remove the clog, she quickly learned to use a much smaller amount of paper. The other thing is to use the thinnest (cheapest) toilet paper, I believe it was Peggy who had a rule about putting a piece of TP into a glass of water to see how quickly it would dissolve and thereby judge the viability of using it in a holding tank. The other item would be to make sure you know how many pumps it takes to move the contents of the bowl to the tank, too few pumps and you have a hose that may contain some remains and slowly cause a clog, too many pumps and you fill the holding tank too quickly. After re-reading the above, I think I have spent too much time thinking about this
Regards. Bruce. Neon MoonBag It!
We always out the TP in a plastic bag. I once had a head clog at 2 in the morning out in the Atlantic between the Delaware Bay and the inlet to the Chesapeke. We didn't have a head for three days until we could get it fixed. Since then we have used platic bags. On my new boat being delivered in October I am having a Vacuflush installed. It is supposed to move the contents of the toilet at 4 feet per second to the holding tank. After seeing how well it works I might go back to flushing the paper. I sure enjoy using the thick soft paper though. Oh, those roids!
We always out the TP in a plastic bag. I once had a head clog at 2 in the morning out in the Atlantic between the Delaware Bay and the inlet to the Chesapeke. We didn't have a head for three days until we could get it fixed. Since then we have used platic bags. On my new boat being delivered in October I am having a Vacuflush installed. It is supposed to move the contents of the toilet at 4 feet per second to the holding tank. After seeing how well it works I might go back to flushing the paper. I sure enjoy using the thick soft paper though. Oh, those roids!
Guess I'll have to repeat myself:
As for those who insist that nothing should go down the toilet that hasn't been eaten first, except for landlubber guests, it's a totally unnecessary precaution, at least for those who know how to flush a marine toilet correctly and bother to maintain the system at all. Any marine toilet that's working even close to specs can easily handle a reasonable amount of the right kind of toilet paper (more on that later). Those who insist upon using premium TP, use half a roll a flush, quit flushing as soon as the bowl is empty, refuse to take a toilet apart to rebuild it except when the bowl is full and won't go down, or ignore sea water crystal buildup in hoses often find themselves with clogged toilets...and they look for anything else to blame it on--if it's not toilet paper, it's poor quality of the equipment--except their own negligence. A marine toilet has nothing in common with the one at home. The one at home has no working parts...a marine toilet is a complete system, including a mechanical or electric pump, plumbing and either a holding tank or a treatment device, or both. Like any piece of equipment, a marine toilet has limitations and requires periodic PREVENTIVE maintenance. Do it, and the odds you'll ever need a repair drop from 100-1 to 1-100. As long as you use cheap insitutional toilet paper that almost dissolves in your hand when it gets wet (which is the same thing as "marine/rv" TP)--and don't use too much of it at a time (where is it written that you only get one flush per sitting?)--and make sure to flush ALL the way through the system, any marine toilet that's working anywhere close to specs can handle it. If you're in any doubt about whether a particular TP is suitable for use aboard, tear off a sheet a put it in a glass of water overnight. If it's still an intact, or mostly intact, sheet in the morning, don't use it on your boat...but if you stir the glass and all you see is "snow," any marine toilet can handle it just fine. ALL that said, landlubber guests are another issue. None of us want to give 'em a lecture on how a marine sanitation system works--it's strengths and weaknesses, what it can swallow and what it can't--and besides, they won't remember it anyway, or they'll decide "this won't hurt" and flush it anyway. Landlubbers assume that anything the toilet at home can swallow, so can a marine toilet...they're totally incapable of understanding that there's a huge difference between the TP onboard and the Kleenex in their purse, and while I hate to admit it, women who haven't been MARINE potty trained seemed to be genetically programed to use half a roll a flush. So the safest line of defense is simply to show 'em how to flush it, and insist that absolutely NOTHING that doesn't pass through them goes into the toilet. That means keeping a little "pail" that has a lid and trap door, and some can liners that fit it in your dock locker to bring out and put in the head when landlubber guests are expected. Take the liner full of TP (and whatever) to the dumpster and put the pail back in the dock locker as soon as they leave. Unfortunately, any other course could find you taking apart your sanitation plumbing to extract a tampon...and if you think the idea of putting used toilet paper anywhere but down the head is distasteful, you haven't lived until you've had to do that! Btw...keep a book of matches in the head. Strike one immediately upon creating odor, and the odor is gone.
As for those who insist that nothing should go down the toilet that hasn't been eaten first, except for landlubber guests, it's a totally unnecessary precaution, at least for those who know how to flush a marine toilet correctly and bother to maintain the system at all. Any marine toilet that's working even close to specs can easily handle a reasonable amount of the right kind of toilet paper (more on that later). Those who insist upon using premium TP, use half a roll a flush, quit flushing as soon as the bowl is empty, refuse to take a toilet apart to rebuild it except when the bowl is full and won't go down, or ignore sea water crystal buildup in hoses often find themselves with clogged toilets...and they look for anything else to blame it on--if it's not toilet paper, it's poor quality of the equipment--except their own negligence. A marine toilet has nothing in common with the one at home. The one at home has no working parts...a marine toilet is a complete system, including a mechanical or electric pump, plumbing and either a holding tank or a treatment device, or both. Like any piece of equipment, a marine toilet has limitations and requires periodic PREVENTIVE maintenance. Do it, and the odds you'll ever need a repair drop from 100-1 to 1-100. As long as you use cheap insitutional toilet paper that almost dissolves in your hand when it gets wet (which is the same thing as "marine/rv" TP)--and don't use too much of it at a time (where is it written that you only get one flush per sitting?)--and make sure to flush ALL the way through the system, any marine toilet that's working anywhere close to specs can handle it. If you're in any doubt about whether a particular TP is suitable for use aboard, tear off a sheet a put it in a glass of water overnight. If it's still an intact, or mostly intact, sheet in the morning, don't use it on your boat...but if you stir the glass and all you see is "snow," any marine toilet can handle it just fine. ALL that said, landlubber guests are another issue. None of us want to give 'em a lecture on how a marine sanitation system works--it's strengths and weaknesses, what it can swallow and what it can't--and besides, they won't remember it anyway, or they'll decide "this won't hurt" and flush it anyway. Landlubbers assume that anything the toilet at home can swallow, so can a marine toilet...they're totally incapable of understanding that there's a huge difference between the TP onboard and the Kleenex in their purse, and while I hate to admit it, women who haven't been MARINE potty trained seemed to be genetically programed to use half a roll a flush. So the safest line of defense is simply to show 'em how to flush it, and insist that absolutely NOTHING that doesn't pass through them goes into the toilet. That means keeping a little "pail" that has a lid and trap door, and some can liners that fit it in your dock locker to bring out and put in the head when landlubber guests are expected. Take the liner full of TP (and whatever) to the dumpster and put the pail back in the dock locker as soon as they leave. Unfortunately, any other course could find you taking apart your sanitation plumbing to extract a tampon...and if you think the idea of putting used toilet paper anywhere but down the head is distasteful, you haven't lived until you've had to do that! Btw...keep a book of matches in the head. Strike one immediately upon creating odor, and the odor is gone.
Match?
Peggy, No problems with blowing yourself up? Or is that an individual judgement? I can see the headlines now. Thanks for repeating the post, I'll be curious how the responses go on this one. Dan J. (S.V. Feije)
Peggy, No problems with blowing yourself up? Or is that an individual judgement? I can see the headlines now. Thanks for repeating the post, I'll be curious how the responses go on this one. Dan J. (S.V. Feije)
If you light the match directly under your butt,
you MIGHT cause a small explosion...but otherwise, it's quite safe.
you MIGHT cause a small explosion...but otherwise, it's quite safe.
Re "thick soft TP"
You cannot use it on a boat, no matter what kind of toilet you have!! It's not only the toilet that can't handle it... it doesn't break down in the holding tank (leave a sheet in a glass of water...it will still be intact after two weeks), jams up macerators in toilets, treatment devices and overboard discharge pumps, and clogs hoses. And btw, before you start using that VacuFlush, see the article "Head Related Odors" in the HM Library...near the end of it there's a section on problems related to V/Flush and how to prevent them.
You cannot use it on a boat, no matter what kind of toilet you have!! It's not only the toilet that can't handle it... it doesn't break down in the holding tank (leave a sheet in a glass of water...it will still be intact after two weeks), jams up macerators in toilets, treatment devices and overboard discharge pumps, and clogs hoses. And btw, before you start using that VacuFlush, see the article "Head Related Odors" in the HM Library...near the end of it there's a section on problems related to V/Flush and how to prevent them.
I think most people flush TP... carefully
..which is OK unless, as Peggie says, the hose is clogged, the runs have lots of 90 degree corners, or too much is attempted. All the clogs I have had over lots of years were WAY too much paper, incomplete flushing or something that should not have been there at all.. like paper towels. RD
..which is OK unless, as Peggie says, the hose is clogged, the runs have lots of 90 degree corners, or too much is attempted. All the clogs I have had over lots of years were WAY too much paper, incomplete flushing or something that should not have been there at all.. like paper towels. RD
Another T P scenerio
We bag all T P.....We place it in a small PAPER bag and dispose it. All guests are told that if its not something put through your body then bag it!!We use to use plastic bags, but have decided on paper.
We bag all T P.....We place it in a small PAPER bag and dispose it. All guests are told that if its not something put through your body then bag it!!We use to use plastic bags, but have decided on paper.
Note to Peggie
I have tried to send you my email address, as you requested, several times, but I guess it has not made it. Here it is: tims@cabomarina.com.mx you said there was someone whom I could help, in some way?
I have tried to send you my email address, as you requested, several times, but I guess it has not made it. Here it is: tims@cabomarina.com.mx you said there was someone whom I could help, in some way?
composting toilet
Rick, I have been using a composting toilet in my sailboat for a few years now. It's so simple and low tech. Take a five gallon plastic pail and put six inches of peat moss in the bottom. Then, take an old toilet seat and place on top. After every poop or pee, throw enough peat moss over the top to cover. Take the toilet seat offf, and put on the lid and Whamo! This should last two people for about a week. Then at home, you need to keep a compost pile going. Put the entire bucket in the pile and cover with green plant matter or kitchen scraps, but no meat. There you have it. Randy
Rick, I have been using a composting toilet in my sailboat for a few years now. It's so simple and low tech. Take a five gallon plastic pail and put six inches of peat moss in the bottom. Then, take an old toilet seat and place on top. After every poop or pee, throw enough peat moss over the top to cover. Take the toilet seat offf, and put on the lid and Whamo! This should last two people for about a week. Then at home, you need to keep a compost pile going. Put the entire bucket in the pile and cover with green plant matter or kitchen scraps, but no meat. There you have it. Randy
Randy, yours is certainly a novel approach, but
You can't call it composting--at least not until you get the bucket home and dump it on the real compost pile. Composting is an aerobic process, which keeping a lid on the bucket prevents. Nor are liquids being drained off..they're just being sopped up and held like a sponge by the pat moss....a 5 gallon bucket can't hold enough peat moss to dry out even a day's liquid waste from two people enough for composting to occur. Each layer compacts the waste--which is why the bucket lasts a week, whereas your compost pile at home (if you're really composting there either) has to be tossed to aerate it regularly. I don't doubt that the waste is breaking down, but it's doing so anaerobically, the same as in a septic tank. If it were truly composting, you wouldn't need a lid 'cuz there wouldn't be any odor. The best you can call what you have is relatively dry storage. In fact, the same thing could accomplished by putting peat moss in a portapotty after each flush, if no flush water were used. I'm not knocking it, and if it meets your needs, by all means keep on keepin' on. It's just not composting.
You can't call it composting--at least not until you get the bucket home and dump it on the real compost pile. Composting is an aerobic process, which keeping a lid on the bucket prevents. Nor are liquids being drained off..they're just being sopped up and held like a sponge by the pat moss....a 5 gallon bucket can't hold enough peat moss to dry out even a day's liquid waste from two people enough for composting to occur. Each layer compacts the waste--which is why the bucket lasts a week, whereas your compost pile at home (if you're really composting there either) has to be tossed to aerate it regularly. I don't doubt that the waste is breaking down, but it's doing so anaerobically, the same as in a septic tank. If it were truly composting, you wouldn't need a lid 'cuz there wouldn't be any odor. The best you can call what you have is relatively dry storage. In fact, the same thing could accomplished by putting peat moss in a portapotty after each flush, if no flush water were used. I'm not knocking it, and if it meets your needs, by all means keep on keepin' on. It's just not composting.
Sorry that I ran across this post.
What a topic! Only serves to remind me that my own holding tank sits there full after too many . . . . well you know.
What a topic! Only serves to remind me that my own holding tank sits there full after too many . . . . well you know.
After reading today's discussions...
I decided to go wash my hands... A newby at the site might think that all we do on our boats is s--- and p--- all weekend if he or she were to read today's posts. He or she might also possibly conclude that we are truly an anal bunch when it comes to marine heads, and that all that heads do is plug and break down. Sheesh!! Seriously, though, folks, I found the information about using a match to blow the boat to smithereens...interesting. Tom
I decided to go wash my hands... A newby at the site might think that all we do on our boats is s--- and p--- all weekend if he or she were to read today's posts. He or she might also possibly conclude that we are truly an anal bunch when it comes to marine heads, and that all that heads do is plug and break down. Sheesh!! Seriously, though, folks, I found the information about using a match to blow the boat to smithereens...interesting. Tom
Well, Tom...it's true
You can spend a year with a bunch of landlubbers and never hear one of 'em even mention the toilet. But put even two boat owners together and you can just about guarantee that the subject of marine toilets and/or related issues will come up within a day (when I show up, it's usually within the first 5 minutes!). You see, it's hard for boat owners to grasp that the toilet in a house--in fact everything in a house--is just an appliance...but on a boat, the toilet and everything else is part of an entire system. They expect everything on a boat to behave like the one at home, and when it doesn't--usually because they fail to consider the impact of doing something to one part of the system may have on the rest of the system--it leads to much weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth. When it comes to the toilet, it's just about the only system that, if it goes down it's a catastrophe. Run of out fresh water...you can brush your teeth with club soda, drink whatever else is on hand, and wash dishes in sea water--at least for a day or two. Lose 12v power, and you can always find your way in the dark with a flashlight and your way home with the compass, or at least call for help on the VHF or a cell phone. Lose the engine, and you can sail home. But have problems with the toilet or any of its related parts, and you're just out of luck, especially if it's raining...and for most women, even if it's not. Since the d'd thing does seem to act up more than any other system (largely due to ignorance, misuse and neglect), I wouldn't say that boat owners are anal retentive, but we do tend to worry about it a lot...and discuss it a lot with other boat owners who also worry about it a lot...and let's face it--a "war story" about the time you had to take a leaky fuel pump apart to fix it can't even BEGIN to compare with a horror story of the time you had to take a toilet apart to remove a landlubber guest's tampon or a clean-up behind a leaky holding tank! The bottom line, Tom, is that boat owners ARE obsessed with the subject...it's what REALLy separates us from landlubbers!
You can spend a year with a bunch of landlubbers and never hear one of 'em even mention the toilet. But put even two boat owners together and you can just about guarantee that the subject of marine toilets and/or related issues will come up within a day (when I show up, it's usually within the first 5 minutes!). You see, it's hard for boat owners to grasp that the toilet in a house--in fact everything in a house--is just an appliance...but on a boat, the toilet and everything else is part of an entire system. They expect everything on a boat to behave like the one at home, and when it doesn't--usually because they fail to consider the impact of doing something to one part of the system may have on the rest of the system--it leads to much weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth. When it comes to the toilet, it's just about the only system that, if it goes down it's a catastrophe. Run of out fresh water...you can brush your teeth with club soda, drink whatever else is on hand, and wash dishes in sea water--at least for a day or two. Lose 12v power, and you can always find your way in the dark with a flashlight and your way home with the compass, or at least call for help on the VHF or a cell phone. Lose the engine, and you can sail home. But have problems with the toilet or any of its related parts, and you're just out of luck, especially if it's raining...and for most women, even if it's not. Since the d'd thing does seem to act up more than any other system (largely due to ignorance, misuse and neglect), I wouldn't say that boat owners are anal retentive, but we do tend to worry about it a lot...and discuss it a lot with other boat owners who also worry about it a lot...and let's face it--a "war story" about the time you had to take a leaky fuel pump apart to fix it can't even BEGIN to compare with a horror story of the time you had to take a toilet apart to remove a landlubber guest's tampon or a clean-up behind a leaky holding tank! The bottom line, Tom, is that boat owners ARE obsessed with the subject...it's what REALLy separates us from landlubbers!
Re: Compost
I certainly hope you don't use that "compost" on anything you eat. One thing composters know is NEVER put human waste in your bin. Actually, it's not recommended to use any animal waste with the possible exception of horse/cow manure. There are lots of diseases that composting won't kill. Don't put this "crap" on your veggies!!! LaDonna
I certainly hope you don't use that "compost" on anything you eat. One thing composters know is NEVER put human waste in your bin. Actually, it's not recommended to use any animal waste with the possible exception of horse/cow manure. There are lots of diseases that composting won't kill. Don't put this "crap" on your veggies!!! LaDonna
Now for the doody
As most of my friends will attest, this is one of my favorite topics. I use Scott TP which is one-ply
As most of my friends will attest, this is one of my favorite topics. I use Scott TP which is one-ply
LaDonna, please send me an e-mail?
I'm in the Catalina owners directory (I'm in ALL the directories), but I couldn't find you.
I'm in the Catalina owners directory (I'm in ALL the directories), but I couldn't find you.
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