When is bigger badder?

[abe]

Bigger is badder when..............

- everytime you make it payment it hurts and you know you should have used the money for something else.- when you do not take the boat out because its too much of a hassle to clean afterwards - when you do not take the boat out because you feel uncomfortable sailing it- when you no longer feel you have a sailboat, but a floating condoabe

 

[Stillraining]

Im addicted to

the power develpoed by a bigger boat, and every thing reacts at a slower pace, for me the Ketch rig solves a lot of the big sail issues with a big sloop for single handling a bigger boat.  Me and the first mate like that Queen sized bed too!!

 

[seatime]

Bigger is Badder

Well for me, I have owned a 30 foot and an 32 foot boat in the past. The first was an ultra light racing boat. It was a blast but few comforts and because it was so light hard to doc in a breeze and not a boat to take offshore. Lake and coastal only. The second was a heavy blue water cruising boat. IT was harder to handle and single hand than the 30 footer in part because of the cockpit arrangement and in my view undersized engine and winches. I got use to single hand her, but docking in a blow was sometimes interesting but franklky one just needs to learn to work with the elements and not try to overpower them. Comfortbable for two, but for a long sail with a crew of 4 not so comfortable. My current boat is 46 feet. Has oversized winches for the jib, and an oversized engine that can stop the boat on a dime if need be, but I can coast in slowly even when there is a bit of wind because of the weight and comparatively low free board compared to other 46 foot boats. I can and have single handed her, most recently on an 8 day coastal sail. Several thing help but it will be even easier when I run the running rigging to the cockpit, but as of now, the windless can be worked from my helm so getting the hook up is much easier. Additionally I purchased a wireless remote for the autopilot so when I need to work at the mast I can still control the boat. (works really well when heading up to raise the main while standing at the mast) In short in most ways the 46 is easier to sail than the 32. I know it is hard to believe, but I should mention it is a center cockpit and thus going forward does not take as much time as it would on a newer more massive 46 footer. Also being further foward and not aft in an aft cockpit, makes the boat feel smaller. (sound odd but it does.) The current boat has a high aspect main, compared to the long boom and shorter mast of the 32, and strange as it may seem, other than a little extra weight of the sail, the main on the 46 is not much more difficult to manange than the 32, but lazy jacks do help. In the end I find I spend more weekends on the boat because it is more comfortable. I don't sail as much and must admit that it requires more energy in the end in a blow, but when I do it is much more relaxed and comfortable.

 

[Mark Wieber]

Vacation Condo, Yacht, or sailboat?

How big is too big for what??According to my insurance company, the difference between a sailboat, and a "yacht" happens at 40 feet. For me the difference between a sailboat and a yacht is that a "sailboat" I can take out myself, sail by myself, and dock by myself (in most weather conditions). Some of you have pointed out that flying a hull in a 14 foot Hobie Cat, or a Broad Reach blast in a Sunfish is right up there with any sailing there is to be done. I have crewed on some 26 and 29 foot boats where the fun was all in the team work.For me it boils down to three critical questions.1) What kind of sailing am I going to be doing?2) What kind of budget do I have?3) What king of effort am I going to make to include my wife??Mark Wieber

 

[Ken Honeycutt]

After a bad case of footitis

After 1 1/2 summers on a 32' we decided that we needed a bigger boat. Here are the biggest reasons why that I can think of (not necessarily in order of importance).Bigger cockpit with large table and seating area. Four people can sit there and eat comfortably. Makes for nice evenings eating outside and looking at the sunsets etc.Ease of access to berth. I'm 58 and it doesn't get any easier climbing in and out of tight spaces.More holding capacity. Can stay out on the boat longer with larger water, fuel and holding tanksEase of sail handling. The admiral almost had a heart attack everytime I went forward to haul down the main or untangle a line when there was any kind of chop (most of the time around the harbors due to power boats) and the bigger boat handles the chop better. In mast furling is a big plus also.Stiffer boat - admiral is a lot happier when this boat leans - higher freeboard helps - much faster boat with light winds.Safety - boat can handle rougher weather that can come up suddenly on Lake Michigan..plus I like having newer equipment that I know the condition of (no suprises)Standup shower. Nice feature when spending long weekends or cruising. Nice for the admiral too.Still have to practice docking (I'm on a can) but so far it seems to be about the same level of difficulty as the 32'Biggest thing is I get excited like a little kid everytime I get on the boat.

 

[capn Bill]

Newer and bigger

This year - for the first time - my son and I were actively "looking" at bigger boats. When my steering cable broke on my 1984 O'day 30, we realized that on-board systems are getting older and in spite of the care one takes in maintaining a boat - age plays a factor. So in the interests of safety - moving up becomes a possibility. We "almost" bought a Beneteau 361 and are sorry that "deal" fell through. Bill on STARGAZER

 

[Brian M H23]

Correct size

The correct size boat is the one X feet long, where X is equal to your age in years

 

[jbkayaker]

Bigger boats do go out less

I once lived in an apartment with a view of a marina close to Galveston Bay, Texas. It soon became very apparent that the bigger the boat the less often it left the slip.

 

[MoonSailer]

Buccaneer 18

I used to have a Buccaneer 18. As far as sailing it was one of th emost fun boats that I've ever owned. It would plane with a modest wind and was fast especially on a plane. Same with a Laser. Cold water was the problem with these boats as they could and did turn turtle. In the summer this was fun but could be deadly in the winter. Like every boat it depends upon how the boat is used. This past Sunday I was looking at teh green boats in my marina. Two Catalina 25's....one with a plant growing out of the hull near the waterline. Then there are a couple of larger boats that are green. I really don't understand the green boats. If they don't sail then they should sale. With a smaller trailerable boat storage out of the water is an option and is better than in the water storage. Every marina that I have ever used had a few green boats... Some got the chainsaw. One marina owner said that he had taken over ownership of a couple of green boats for lack of payment of the slip rental. But by then the boats were worthless and he had to saw them up and putthem in his dumpster. Lead keels are worth keeping as are good masts. But most was just trash.

 

[letterman]

My home

I started out with a 12', moved to a 20' daysailor, then to a 37' Irwin. I did some research and found, when I bought the boat five years ago, that 37 was the median size boat (it's now up to 41') I found some people preferred a cutter because the mast was shorter. Mine is only a foot taller in the rig than my neighbors 30 Catalina. I have the centerboard 4' keel model. I can sneak into those shallow areas. And with two cabins, having guests is NOT a problem.This past summer we went up to the islands on the 30' Catalina. I slept, or tried to, in that little breadbox under the cockpit area. I felt like Harry Potter. And my friend snored. So I settled for the cockpit itself, which was not that bad. We did load a lot of stuff off my boat to take, which means I have a lot more room for fenders, lines etc. not to mention inside storage.Five years ago I did it on my boat and had five people sleeping everywhere. Plenty of room for us and our gear. Of course the day we went up there it stormed, so weighing 20,000 made for a brisk, smooth sail in 8 foot waves.Nope, the only thing I would change would be to an aft cabin solely because you are at the dock more than sailing, and there appears to be more livable area in a aft cockpit. If I had a wife, that is what I would have.On the way to Florida three years ago, 100% of the boats were 38+ aft cockpit sloops, and most had one or more electric winches.

 

[CharlieCobra]

I went from a Venture 21 @ 1165 #'s

to a 39'4" Yawl @ 7 tons net. The split rig allows even my 5'3" 135 # wife to handle all of the sails except the chute single. I can put up 300 sq ft of sail or as much as 1500 sq ft downwind according to my mood and the conditions. I like the room and amenities of the larger yacht to be certain. I can see where a 50+ Sloop might be an issue though.

 

[MoonSailer]

Yep but all of the expense

There is no doubt more space and comfort in a larger boat. BUT is it worth the added expense??? If you are paying $5/foot /month is a 40' boat worth an extra $50/month slip fee. To haul out the boat to paint to pressure wash etc etc is all based per foot. So you spend a couple nights a month on board is the extra 10 feet worth several thousand extra per year??? I guess that is what it boils down to dollars!!!!! We aren't even talking purchase price. So is that extra 10' worth another $30-50,000 up front??? Even if the boat is worth the extra money is it worth not buying a motorcycle or nicer car??? Building a pool in the backyard??? Taking that trip to Hawaii and Tahiti. Obviously if you are very rich money is not so important. But to working people that extra money for the boat has to come from some other use.

 

[sailaway78]

I think it kind of depends on the individual

Are we discussing how big a boat do we need, or how big a boat do we want. How much boat a person actually needs is dependent mostly upon their sailing wishes. I started with a 22, moved up to a 28 and now a 37. The 28 is a much easier boat to sail than the 37, especially for me as I am 69 years old and single hand mostly. But the 28 doesn't have the capacity for fuel, water and provisions I need for the type of cruising I do, and the 37 is certainly much more comfortable when mamma nature gets a little ticked off. So I can call 37 a need. If I didn't travel and stay gone for weeks at a time, the 28 would make a lot more sense for me. Then it comes to wants, and like most I always want something bigger, better and newer. In the upcoming years, I may have to go back down the scale, if and when it gets to the point I can't manage the 37.

 

[CharlieCobra]

Gerry, slip rental on a 40' is bad enough.

I wouldn't want the bill for a 65 footer.

 

[Ross]

I want a boat that sleeps 2, can feed 4,

and have room for 6 for drinks. I have a 4 bedroom house. I don't want a 4 state room boat.

 

[Stillraining]

Gerry & Bev

Noticed you are running twin furling head sails, I will start a different thread so we can talk and not hijack this one.

 

[brobins75]

cool

The biggest boat i can possibly get....beg, borrow, or steal (not really steal!). gotta be liveaboard.at heart im a modern day hippie, w/o the long hair. I hate convention (http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=define%3A+convention). Just wanna wander on the wind. I dont believe in anything but freedom. Ftw!btw, please see my other post and offer suggestions for my 40' adventure. http://www.sailboatowners.com/forums/pviewall.tpl?&fno=2&uid=73339154395&sku=2007350153439.31riches,b

 

[David11054]

Disadvantages of another two feet

There has been an excellent series of articles on choosing a boat for voyaging across oceans in recent issues of "Good Old Boat." It's the best I have read because the couple who wrote it have over 10 years of doing it, and they have no "hobby horses." They feature insightful, practical analysis of what is being used by those they see around them. But they also carefully analyzed the impact of size in broad and (IMHO) valid ways. - Longer costs lots more. They say adding 10 feet triples the total cost for cruising. That implies a 25% cost increase for a 2 foot (10%) increase.)- Longer is harder to handle. They said that their current 47 footer is more dangerous than their original 37 footer, because the stress on the running rigging demands that they always use a mechanical aide (winch) and they have to get it right the first time. They were able to correct screw-ups or accidents on the 37 footer (like unwrapping a fouled furling sail,) that are impossible on the 47 footer. The Admiral who can trim the sails on our 27 footer in all conditions was unable to trim the genny sheet for the 130 on a chartered Catalina 34 in 15 knot winds. Since running rigging load increases as the cube of length, a 2 foot (10%) increase means a 33% increase in loads on running rigging. - Long is more complex. More things to maintain. To go wrong. To remember and put on checklists. This all means more time maintaining the boat or getting ready to sail, and less time sailing.- Some of the cabins in modern large boats are less safe and comfortable under way. Fewer places for reachable handholds, and awkward sleeping accommodations in the main cabin are examples.Storage and comfort under way are the big advantages I see in larger boats. Unfortunately, most do not offer much of an increase in sleeping places until you get into the 45 foot range. And the aft cabins featured in modern larger boats often lack adequate ventilation.We may well move up in length when we get tired of climbing into the v-berth on our h27. But right now, we feel she is just a great fit, and lets us sail more and maintain less.DavidLady Lillie

 

[MoonSailer]

Cruising Couple

IMHO 40' is about the size limit for a cruising couple. Anything longer requires more of a crew. I would like a larger boat for cruising that my present Pearson 323. But have mixed emotions. The extra space is a real plus but the negatives are there too. We are on the Tennessee River so going up or down the river requires locking through. Well the currents can get substanial in a lock and it is about all we can do to not bang around. Also increased length means a taller mast. Our present 45' allows us to go under main channel bridges at normal water levels. Longer usually means a deeper keel and our 4.5' works pretty well. Then looking at build quality. I think that with more money a better built boat might be wiser than a longer boat of lesser quality. A big coastal cruiser would be more comfortable at anchor but maybe less comfortable at sea. A well built blue water boat opens up cruising possiblities that a big coastal boat does not offer. Again it all depends upon the boats intended use. Right now I am interested in a boat suitable for a couple in their 50's to use for cruising.

 

[MoonSailer]

Bah Humbug!!!!!

The wife insists that we visit family and friends during Christmas. I won't see our boat until the 29th . Bah Humbug White sails and cold black water. BTW I went kayaking and fishing Wednesday and saw a family of otters!!! It is amazing that they tolerate such cold water. I know up north 50 degree water is not cold. But in Alabama 50 degree water is cold!!!!