I'm a bit hestitant to start this series of posts, but I think it will lead to some valuable discussion ... There are a couple of threads on the board now, and several earlier this year ... including one of mine on single handed sailing technique ... where the subject of harnesses, tethers, jacklines, etc. have been discussed peripherally. Here's my simple question for forum discussion. When do you clip on? What are the sea and wind state? Are age, agility, etc. a factor? Or, are they an excuse for unsafe practice? I'm asking because in several years of racing on Lake Michigan including some fairly hellish conditions, and a few years sailing an O'Day 22 on Lake Carlyle, I've never come close to taking an unplanned exit from the boat. So things need to get pretty churned up before I clip on ... even single handed. But reading between the lines on several posts, some of you are clipping on coming out of the harbor under some pretty moderate conditions. Comments? Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
- Status
Clipping On
During daylight it is an individual thing as conditions warrant. After dark it should be manditory no matter the conditions. They say that most recoveries of those that have fallen overboard have their fly unzipped.
During daylight it is an individual thing as conditions warrant. After dark it should be manditory no matter the conditions. They say that most recoveries of those that have fallen overboard have their fly unzipped.
Stern ladder Secured? How?
There was a local sailor that tied his stern ladder up to the stern rail. Wasn't a problem until he fell overboard while solo-sailing at night and nearly drowned because the knot was too high to reach from the water level. The result was several cold waterlogged hours where he became very nearly too fatigued/hypothermic to climb back aboard and save a happy ending. This determined sailor saved himself.
There was a local sailor that tied his stern ladder up to the stern rail. Wasn't a problem until he fell overboard while solo-sailing at night and nearly drowned because the knot was too high to reach from the water level. The result was several cold waterlogged hours where he became very nearly too fatigued/hypothermic to climb back aboard and save a happy ending. This determined sailor saved himself.
When I'm alone
I don't care if it's a bluebird day in broad daylight, I wear my harness and clip on if I leave the cockpit when I am single-handing. I'm not going to fall off my boat and watch it sail out to sea without me. My wife can't sail a lick, but I taught her how to use the radio. If I fall off when she's around, at least someone will know where I am. Paul
I don't care if it's a bluebird day in broad daylight, I wear my harness and clip on if I leave the cockpit when I am single-handing. I'm not going to fall off my boat and watch it sail out to sea without me. My wife can't sail a lick, but I taught her how to use the radio. If I fall off when she's around, at least someone will know where I am. Paul
Single-handing
Since I started sailing out of protected waters 35 years ago, I have clipped on with a harness. When with crew, I do not do so typically, altho I ask them to wear an inflatable PFD at night as do I. I do not clip on going forward with anyone else since my perception is that the tethers are a hazard. I do if going forward alone. Be careful to keep tethers away from cleats and rigging. When you are working, it is easy to get pulled off balance when the tether snags or runs up tight. Having said all that, when single-handing, it doesn't seem to make sense to be untethered unless really light. Just one person's opinion. Rick D.
Since I started sailing out of protected waters 35 years ago, I have clipped on with a harness. When with crew, I do not do so typically, altho I ask them to wear an inflatable PFD at night as do I. I do not clip on going forward with anyone else since my perception is that the tethers are a hazard. I do if going forward alone. Be careful to keep tethers away from cleats and rigging. When you are working, it is easy to get pulled off balance when the tether snags or runs up tight. Having said all that, when single-handing, it doesn't seem to make sense to be untethered unless really light. Just one person's opinion. Rick D.
Jack lines
In relation to this where is the proper location to run the Jack Lines. I have seen these on deck inside the life lines and this does not seem safe. It would seem to make more sense to have them outside the lifelines attached to the toe rail front and back. If you were attached inside and fell off I can see you getting caught up in the lifelines and dragged along side the boat. If outside I can see the ability to slide to the rear for re-boarding. Any preference?
In relation to this where is the proper location to run the Jack Lines. I have seen these on deck inside the life lines and this does not seem safe. It would seem to make more sense to have them outside the lifelines attached to the toe rail front and back. If you were attached inside and fell off I can see you getting caught up in the lifelines and dragged along side the boat. If outside I can see the ability to slide to the rear for re-boarding. Any preference?
Call me carefull if you like
But when ever I am on my own no matter what the weather I clip on. Often I set the tiller and go forward. Just imagine treading water waving goodby to your yacht.
But when ever I am on my own no matter what the weather I clip on. Often I set the tiller and go forward. Just imagine treading water waving goodby to your yacht.
Stern Ladder
The stern ladder on TASHTEGO is connected to the rail by a snap shackle. A D ring is attached to the ladder by slipping it under the mounting strap for the Starboard treads on the ladder. The snap shackle bail is siezed to the stern rail. A lanyard runs from the snap shackle opening ring down almost to the water line then back up to the bottom tread of the (folding) ladder. A plastic ball is secured to the lanyard just above the water line. To get the ladder, grasp the ball and give it a yank and down comes the ladder. Make sure you're not right under it or you will get a significant bonk on the noggin. The other end of the lanyard is attached at the bottom of the ladder so that the ladder can be pulled back up and latched. The arrangement has always worked for us and never come undone accidentally. A Cat 27 has plenty of freeboard and I'm pretty sure I could never get aboard on my own without the ladder, nor could the First Mate/Admiral get in and out of the dinghy. PS The Starboard treads are worth every penny in saving wear and tear on bare feet.
The stern ladder on TASHTEGO is connected to the rail by a snap shackle. A D ring is attached to the ladder by slipping it under the mounting strap for the Starboard treads on the ladder. The snap shackle bail is siezed to the stern rail. A lanyard runs from the snap shackle opening ring down almost to the water line then back up to the bottom tread of the (folding) ladder. A plastic ball is secured to the lanyard just above the water line. To get the ladder, grasp the ball and give it a yank and down comes the ladder. Make sure you're not right under it or you will get a significant bonk on the noggin. The other end of the lanyard is attached at the bottom of the ladder so that the ladder can be pulled back up and latched. The arrangement has always worked for us and never come undone accidentally. A Cat 27 has plenty of freeboard and I'm pretty sure I could never get aboard on my own without the ladder, nor could the First Mate/Admiral get in and out of the dinghy. PS The Starboard treads are worth every penny in saving wear and tear on bare feet.
What about trailing a heaving line?
A couple of weeks ago, while anchored on a windy day (15kts), my wife was uncomfortable about our 7 and 11 year-olds drifting away while swiming. I secured and threw out a 50 ft floating heaving line and all was well. It later occurred to me that this might be a useful thing to do when single-handed. This is perhaps confirmed here when more than one person mentioned not wanting to tread water and wave goodbye to his boat as it sailed away. If the boat is going too fast, draging on a line can pull you under, but I don't know what that speed is and if it is easy to control while pulling yourself back to the stern with this line. Is this something that is ever done? Surely not as a replacement for a pfd or tether, but it seems like an idea to me.
A couple of weeks ago, while anchored on a windy day (15kts), my wife was uncomfortable about our 7 and 11 year-olds drifting away while swiming. I secured and threw out a 50 ft floating heaving line and all was well. It later occurred to me that this might be a useful thing to do when single-handed. This is perhaps confirmed here when more than one person mentioned not wanting to tread water and wave goodbye to his boat as it sailed away. If the boat is going too fast, draging on a line can pull you under, but I don't know what that speed is and if it is easy to control while pulling yourself back to the stern with this line. Is this something that is ever done? Surely not as a replacement for a pfd or tether, but it seems like an idea to me.
trailing Safety Line - Speed?
I've often cooled off (hot day in Bahamas)by trolling (myself) behind "Southbound". Feeling lazy, I slow the boat down to 2-3 Kts, need excitement I let her go about 5 Kts. Woulkdn't want to be hurt, and trying to get back to the stern & aboard at >5 Kts, tho'. Gord
I've often cooled off (hot day in Bahamas)by trolling (myself) behind "Southbound". Feeling lazy, I slow the boat down to 2-3 Kts, need excitement I let her go about 5 Kts. Woulkdn't want to be hurt, and trying to get back to the stern & aboard at >5 Kts, tho'. Gord
Yeah, they call me Nervous Nellie...
Your conditions will vary, items appear smaller when drifting miles behind the stern, our results may not be typical, member FDIC...We 'voyage' and never daysail...So we stand watches, and with us two adults and only a young son now on board, we are very nervous on someone going overboard while on watch alone with others a sleep...we are pretty demanding in this area and some friends say we over do it. Maybe so. We still like the way we do it,though and with the right equipment, it is no problem. SOP on Faithful is: 1) Clip in when alone on watch after dark, even in cockpit.No matter the conditions. 2) Anytime on deck when above alone and going forward. 3) Whenever reefing and going on deck...if you needed to reef you must have some change/concern in conditions... Conditions should not be the determining facter per se'. Procedure should be. If we used "conditions" to dictate when we will use harnesses,we will be forward working on the head sail on a 10 knot run, nice and beautiful... and slip. Or decide to pee or some other regular, everyday event, and be lost over board while your partner sleeps on...IF you are alone on watch AND go on deck, you clip in...IF you are alone on watch AND it is Dark..you are always clipped in, even in the cockpit. No room for confusion in that. If it's easy,people do it. Have good, comfortable gear readily available. Faithful has jacklines always rigged down each side, all crew has personally fitted harnesses (no hassle adjusting)and individual double clip teathers, Pre-adjusted inflatable PFD's with built in harnesses and foul weather gear again with built in harness...What ever you put on, can easily be rigged with a teather... Next subject...towing a safety line...sometimes we have, but what we always do after dark when on watch alone, is attach one of two speciality "lines" I built myself. They both work with our self steering systems: 1) Is a 'disconnect' for the tiller auto pilot. It clips on the harness, and if you fall over it disconnects the autopilot allowing the boat to round up...Kinda like an emergency kill switch on an outboard...only mechanical to disconnect the tiller pilot. 2) The second is the same type device for the Aries windvane...It disconnects the tiller from the lines from the Aries if you fallover, allowing the boat to round up. Over Kill? Many of my friends who I respect as sailors say so, but if I came up to find my wife gone...geez......I'd just rather have over kill than Go over and BE killed!...
Your conditions will vary, items appear smaller when drifting miles behind the stern, our results may not be typical, member FDIC...We 'voyage' and never daysail...So we stand watches, and with us two adults and only a young son now on board, we are very nervous on someone going overboard while on watch alone with others a sleep...we are pretty demanding in this area and some friends say we over do it. Maybe so. We still like the way we do it,though and with the right equipment, it is no problem. SOP on Faithful is: 1) Clip in when alone on watch after dark, even in cockpit.No matter the conditions. 2) Anytime on deck when above alone and going forward. 3) Whenever reefing and going on deck...if you needed to reef you must have some change/concern in conditions... Conditions should not be the determining facter per se'. Procedure should be. If we used "conditions" to dictate when we will use harnesses,we will be forward working on the head sail on a 10 knot run, nice and beautiful... and slip. Or decide to pee or some other regular, everyday event, and be lost over board while your partner sleeps on...IF you are alone on watch AND go on deck, you clip in...IF you are alone on watch AND it is Dark..you are always clipped in, even in the cockpit. No room for confusion in that. If it's easy,people do it. Have good, comfortable gear readily available. Faithful has jacklines always rigged down each side, all crew has personally fitted harnesses (no hassle adjusting)and individual double clip teathers, Pre-adjusted inflatable PFD's with built in harnesses and foul weather gear again with built in harness...What ever you put on, can easily be rigged with a teather... Next subject...towing a safety line...sometimes we have, but what we always do after dark when on watch alone, is attach one of two speciality "lines" I built myself. They both work with our self steering systems: 1) Is a 'disconnect' for the tiller auto pilot. It clips on the harness, and if you fall over it disconnects the autopilot allowing the boat to round up...Kinda like an emergency kill switch on an outboard...only mechanical to disconnect the tiller pilot. 2) The second is the same type device for the Aries windvane...It disconnects the tiller from the lines from the Aries if you fallover, allowing the boat to round up. Over Kill? Many of my friends who I respect as sailors say so, but if I came up to find my wife gone...geez......I'd just rather have over kill than Go over and BE killed!...
Jack Lines, Tether Rules
We always rig our bow and stern lines as jack lines when under way. A bowline in the bow line, and a loop of the stern line passes through, and is heaved tight on the stern cleat. The rules are: All wear PFD's underway. We have several inflatables for hot weather, so all can conform in comfort. The Captain (me) is always harnessed and tethered in the cockpit or forward if no one else on board is competent to execute the MOB drill. This includes my time single handing. I hope to train the Admiral to be confident with the MOB, but we aren't there yet. All wear harnesses and tether going forward in rough weather. This means 20 knots of wind, and/or waves 4 feet or more. David Lady Lillie
We always rig our bow and stern lines as jack lines when under way. A bowline in the bow line, and a loop of the stern line passes through, and is heaved tight on the stern cleat. The rules are: All wear PFD's underway. We have several inflatables for hot weather, so all can conform in comfort. The Captain (me) is always harnessed and tethered in the cockpit or forward if no one else on board is competent to execute the MOB drill. This includes my time single handing. I hope to train the Admiral to be confident with the MOB, but we aren't there yet. All wear harnesses and tether going forward in rough weather. This means 20 knots of wind, and/or waves 4 feet or more. David Lady Lillie
trailing line
I sail with a line attached to the stern incase someone falls overboard. I've jumped in and held this line to cool off on hot days and you can control the direction of the boat by using your body as resistance. It is not to hard to pull oneself back to the boat with this line either. I do tie off my 2 year old son because you never know when they decide to go overboard. He has been into throwing things overboard lately and this has had me practicing lots of retrevials. He seems to enjoy the boat action of having to make a turnaround for the overboard object. Ken
I sail with a line attached to the stern incase someone falls overboard. I've jumped in and held this line to cool off on hot days and you can control the direction of the boat by using your body as resistance. It is not to hard to pull oneself back to the boat with this line either. I do tie off my 2 year old son because you never know when they decide to go overboard. He has been into throwing things overboard lately and this has had me practicing lots of retrevials. He seems to enjoy the boat action of having to make a turnaround for the overboard object. Ken
boarding ladders.
I rigged a slip knot in the line that holds my stern ladder up to the rail. the end of the line hangs over the transom so it can be reached from the water. is is cut so it cant reach the prop. The problem is thats great if your stopped. but if your boat is moving your not going to catch it. i fell 1/2 way in and would myself arround the stern pulpit. (with zipper down). I was alone and the boat was clipping along at about 6.5 knows on autopiolot. took me about ten miniutes to get back on. but all the while i was thinking about the boat sailing away. WEAR A TETHER! Day or night when you are alone expecially. i have learned to wear it and dont even notice i have it on anymore.
I rigged a slip knot in the line that holds my stern ladder up to the rail. the end of the line hangs over the transom so it can be reached from the water. is is cut so it cant reach the prop. The problem is thats great if your stopped. but if your boat is moving your not going to catch it. i fell 1/2 way in and would myself arround the stern pulpit. (with zipper down). I was alone and the boat was clipping along at about 6.5 knows on autopiolot. took me about ten miniutes to get back on. but all the while i was thinking about the boat sailing away. WEAR A TETHER! Day or night when you are alone expecially. i have learned to wear it and dont even notice i have it on anymore.
trailing line...
Ken - how long a line do you trail? If I did the math right, at 5 kts and a 50ft line, you have only 6 seconds to grab the line or it's gone.
Ken - how long a line do you trail? If I did the math right, at 5 kts and a 50ft line, you have only 6 seconds to grab the line or it's gone.
Call of Nature
I read the post about MOB with interest. I have to say I can understand the issues of both sides of tethering but I beleive the tethered folk are safer. As with all safety equipment, it is designed for emergency situations. Think of seatbealts in cars and trucks, you don't need them unless you experience a crash or collision. The same think applies to tethers, you don't need them until you fall overboard. It is a bit too late then! I also understand the bit about an open fly on recoveries. A situation occoured when I was fishing from my small open boat when I answered a call of nature. I did get wet and had to swim to shore towing my boat as I could not get back in alone. Since then, I use a small bucket or even my bailing bucket, then empty it overbaord. This way I can stay completely in the boat and do not risk toppling out when a wave hits. Keep up the info, it makes a person think!!!
I read the post about MOB with interest. I have to say I can understand the issues of both sides of tethering but I beleive the tethered folk are safer. As with all safety equipment, it is designed for emergency situations. Think of seatbealts in cars and trucks, you don't need them unless you experience a crash or collision. The same think applies to tethers, you don't need them until you fall overboard. It is a bit too late then! I also understand the bit about an open fly on recoveries. A situation occoured when I was fishing from my small open boat when I answered a call of nature. I did get wet and had to swim to shore towing my boat as I could not get back in alone. Since then, I use a small bucket or even my bailing bucket, then empty it overbaord. This way I can stay completely in the boat and do not risk toppling out when a wave hits. Keep up the info, it makes a person think!!!
Tethering?
I singlehand; even with someone aboard. I'm sure you understand what I mean. I see no point in chancing an unplanned "dip" so when under way, I don't venture out of the cockpit of my C30 unless I'm harnessed and hooked on to something substantial. Rarely will I go forward of the mast. I prefer a jackline running down the centerline and a short tether. Even at that, I fasten the boarding ladder with a chainstitched lanyard that just touches the water.
I singlehand; even with someone aboard. I'm sure you understand what I mean. I see no point in chancing an unplanned "dip" so when under way, I don't venture out of the cockpit of my C30 unless I'm harnessed and hooked on to something substantial. Rarely will I go forward of the mast. I prefer a jackline running down the centerline and a short tether. Even at that, I fasten the boarding ladder with a chainstitched lanyard that just touches the water.
Coming Home
If you are sailing alone and you have not trained your boat to come when you whistle, clip on. The people who laugh at you are the inexperienced. Everyone else sees someone who has a clue about what he/she is doing. Alone? Clip on. With crew? In worsening conditions/inexperienced crew, no one comes on a weatherdeck without clipping on; that includes the cockpit area.
If you are sailing alone and you have not trained your boat to come when you whistle, clip on. The people who laugh at you are the inexperienced. Everyone else sees someone who has a clue about what he/she is doing. Alone? Clip on. With crew? In worsening conditions/inexperienced crew, no one comes on a weatherdeck without clipping on; that includes the cockpit area.
Jack Lines - Inside or Outside?
Don has raised a question that has been perplexing me for a while. Annapolis Book on Seamanship has the jacklines along each side of the mast near the center. Mullvile's book on single handing has them along the outside of the life lines. Inside if I fall over the live lines I am going to get caught on the stantions and drug along the side. In the center they may keep me from going over or through the live lines but with a 6 foot elastic teather and jack line stretch I will probabily end up over the side and hung up on the side. Outside if I fall and go through the life line I will get hung at the stantion and be drug alone the side. If I go over the life line I will slide along the side and the teather will pull me around to the stern where my boarding ladder is. I might be able to grab the life lines if I am sliding under or through them. Outside makes more logical since to me but I don't hear anyone doing it. Any experiences or expertise on this question? Good Winds Dave s/v DAMWEGAS
Don has raised a question that has been perplexing me for a while. Annapolis Book on Seamanship has the jacklines along each side of the mast near the center. Mullvile's book on single handing has them along the outside of the life lines. Inside if I fall over the live lines I am going to get caught on the stantions and drug along the side. In the center they may keep me from going over or through the live lines but with a 6 foot elastic teather and jack line stretch I will probabily end up over the side and hung up on the side. Outside if I fall and go through the life line I will get hung at the stantion and be drug alone the side. If I go over the life line I will slide along the side and the teather will pull me around to the stern where my boarding ladder is. I might be able to grab the life lines if I am sliding under or through them. Outside makes more logical since to me but I don't hear anyone doing it. Any experiences or expertise on this question? Good Winds Dave s/v DAMWEGAS
Inside/Outside Jacklines?
Dave raises a good question, to which I don't have a definitive answer. A couple of considerations about Jackline placement: 1. If it’s not easy to use, it may not get used. The location and routing of my jacklines must enable me to clip on from the cockpit (or preferably the companionway) before going on deck, and allow me to easily move fore and aft & athwartships (as much as practicable) without unclipping. At a minimum, I want to be able to access the anchor & gear, loaded genoa/jib car, reefing points, mast, vang, and winches. Practicality may require me to re-clip to work opposite rails (but I don’t like it). 2. I like static clipping points at the anchor & mast, for those occasions when you’re required to perform prolonged tasks at those stations. 3. I use a “construction” style tether, which has locking snaphooks at both ends. This allows me to clip from the end, providing a 6 foot leash for mobility, and/or clip around the jackline & back to my D-ring, providing a 3 foot leash for security. 4. I’ve used both inboard flat webbing (toe rails P & S), and 1x19 wire (open loop from Port cockpit fwd to bow & return to Stbd cockpit). Each has it’s advantages & disadvantages. And a question of philosophy.: 1. Jacklines are designed to steady the mobile crew against falling , and to catch the falling crewmember. It might be argued that prevention should come ahead of retrieval, and that a tight (more) centerline jackline provides more stability, than a slack outboard line. Alternatively, it could be argued that the ultimate task is to save the crewmember in the worst case. Interesting dichotomy, to which I look forward to comment & opinion [note that I don’t offer one]
Dave raises a good question, to which I don't have a definitive answer. A couple of considerations about Jackline placement: 1. If it’s not easy to use, it may not get used. The location and routing of my jacklines must enable me to clip on from the cockpit (or preferably the companionway) before going on deck, and allow me to easily move fore and aft & athwartships (as much as practicable) without unclipping. At a minimum, I want to be able to access the anchor & gear, loaded genoa/jib car, reefing points, mast, vang, and winches. Practicality may require me to re-clip to work opposite rails (but I don’t like it). 2. I like static clipping points at the anchor & mast, for those occasions when you’re required to perform prolonged tasks at those stations. 3. I use a “construction” style tether, which has locking snaphooks at both ends. This allows me to clip from the end, providing a 6 foot leash for mobility, and/or clip around the jackline & back to my D-ring, providing a 3 foot leash for security. 4. I’ve used both inboard flat webbing (toe rails P & S), and 1x19 wire (open loop from Port cockpit fwd to bow & return to Stbd cockpit). Each has it’s advantages & disadvantages. And a question of philosophy.: 1. Jacklines are designed to steady the mobile crew against falling , and to catch the falling crewmember. It might be argued that prevention should come ahead of retrieval, and that a tight (more) centerline jackline provides more stability, than a slack outboard line. Alternatively, it could be argued that the ultimate task is to save the crewmember in the worst case. Interesting dichotomy, to which I look forward to comment & opinion [note that I don’t offer one]
- Status