When Are You Ready For Blue Water Sailing?

[Abby Normal]

Greetings All,My wife and I honeymooned in the BVI's last November and I was instantly intrigued by how many people travel and stay on sailboats down there. I had sailed a Sunfish quite extensively when I was in my teens and took sailing courses. I'd long had a desire to have a cruiser sailboat some day, and our trip to the BVI's re-kindled that dream.We bought a Mac 25 about a month ago, we are sailing it on the weekends at one of the larger reservoirs in NE Oklahoma and I am learning all I can from a variety of books and learning the handling characteristics and experimenting with sail trim. I've had one of my more experienced buddies go out with us, and I've got another who is a USCG certified captain and instructor who is going to be going out with us.I've found web sites like Conch Cruisers who sail to the Dry Tortugas and Bimini and I'm looking forward to the day to go on such excursions.My question is, what in the opinion of other sailors on here is a requisite amount of fresh-water experience prior to going off-shore (i.e. coastal sailing and eventual passage making)?

 

[sailingseadragon]

Only after the first Blue Water trip.

This is a great question.... I wrestled with the same question for sometime. I spoke with many people about this and the conclusion I came to was, you will never know until you go off-shore for the first time. In my case, I wanted to learn first, if I was mentally ready for the trip and then was I equipped with the necessary sailing skills to do it. I choose to spend a few thousand dollars and take an advanced Ocean Training course. After researching several options, I settled on Maryland School of Sailing & Seamanship… What a great choice!!!You can read about my first trip off-shore on our website:www.sailingseadragon.comgo to Adventures then to Chesapeake Bay to Bermuda 2004Good luck…

 

[Waffle]

There is NO AMOUNT of

fresh water (protected water) experience that can prepare you to going off-shore unless it is in the Great Lakes (wihch is not a protected body of water).You have to gain that experience the hard way. I read an article about a sailor that completed lots the sailing course and sailing in protected water and days sails in the ocean. He was thinking about going around the world. He volunteered for a race from San Francisco to Hawaii. He decided open water sailing was not for him and gave up his dreams of sailing around the world.The same thing happened to me bringing a boat up the East Coast of Florida. I love cruising but from now on I am going inside

 

[Franklin]

experience needed

"what in the opinion of other sailors on here is a requisite amount of fresh-water experience prior to going off-shore (i.e. coastal sailing and eventual passage making)? "I feel that you need to know sail trim fairly well for off-shore. The reason is, there will be times when you wish you had been going faster so you beat that storm to your destination (a half knot for days makes a hugh difference).Most important though, you need to understand heavy weather sailing and the difference waves make on the stress on a boat and yourself. Heavy weather sailing you can read about and practice in fresh water. Knowing the stress the wave will cause on you and the boat, that takes off shore experience. That's why some buy a nice boat and go cruising and then sell their boat shortly afterwards. It's not all smooth sailing and one can underestimate the sacrofices you have to make to be a cruiser.You also need to know boats. You need to know what kind of boat to have. You need to know what improvements to make. You need to know how to fix the problems that will come up. You need to know what boats can do. Because you own a Mac 26, you can get a good start on this by doing all your own work. Take her out for extended sails of a few days and anchor at anchorages. Talk to other owners at your dock. Offer help to work on their boats. Ask questions about their boats...owners love to talk about their boat.Within a couple of years of constant boating (not once a month) you should have the experience needed to take a short coastal and hope you get one with winds near 20 knots so you can get a feel for the difference of offshore and fresh water.After a few of coastal trips offshore, going farther and farther down the coast each time and anchoring out someplace new, you will be ready for a short passage. After that, the sky's the limit and you will gain experience each passage.This is my plan. I've been eating, sleeping, dreaming, and breathing boats for the past two seasons. I've taken a few coastal trips and working my way to a short passage. I feel I'm ready now for a passage but my boat isn't and I need to find the time off work (that's usually the hardest part...I haven't had a vacation 4 years).

 

[Warren Milberg]

The only person

that can answer your question is you. Yes, certainly get as much sailing experience as you can, in all kinds of wind and sea states, as you can in "protected waters" first. ONce you feel comfortable that you know how to deal with all the boat management basics, get yourself a berth on a boat going offshore. Either on a friend's boat or one of the many offshore passage opportunities listed online or in the back of the sailing mags. After you've crossed the Gulf Stream a few times in both directions, or been through a storm or two at sea with people who know how to handle them, its time to ask yourself the question again: are you ready? You'll know.

 

[tom]

Kinda Like Skiing

You can get real good on the bunny slope but it doesn't help that much on the advanced slopes. It is better than no experience.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

And believe it, that Franklin's studying and

learning. I think he sounds ready to go,,, Here is a tidbit. Weather. Learn it. And I don't mean learning to know when the rough stuff is on the horizon, I mean that you should/must learn when and where the bad weather is likely and DON'T BE THERE. If you make sure you are in the right part of the world at the right time then the only thing you need to learn besides how to sail is maintenance and navigating. OK, that's still a lot. But if you take the weather equation out of cruising, and it's not hard to do, then you will find that going off shore is simple and boring. Just day after day of benign conditions.  The really hard stuff is Coastal-ling. You can't take your eyes off the road and you can never get in a grove. The only enemy of a sailboat besides bad weather, is land. OK, fire, explosion, angry whales, pirates, Mexican Customs,,,, but those are not really related to Blue-Water. The only angry whale story I recall happened close to shore. The solution to that hazard is don't sail a wood boat.

 

[David10790]

Take an Offshore Course

I took two blue water courses, one with J World and one with Bluewater Sailing School, both in Florida. It's a great way to improve your knowledge (paricularly navigation), find out if you like being out of sight of land, and get a nice warm winter holiday, all at the same time. Surprisly affordable. You will also get the certification required to bareboat anywhere in the world.

 

[Drew]

Hey Franklin

I went rolling through Kemah yesterday - on the way to Texas City for work - thought about you when I saw all them pretty sailboats. Looks like a great place for a sail, once you've got that new tattoo!Kidding!! Kidding!!

 

[Abby Normal]

Thanks for the response!

I really appreciate all the insight. The friend of mine that is a certified instructor has been doing charters out of Tortolla for several years on his own boat and does deliveries from various ports on the East Coast to the Caribbean. Sounds as if it might be a very good idea to try to thumb a ride with him on a delivery and see if I have the stomach for taking charge of my own boat off-shore someday.I'm in no hurry, except in my dreams...

 

[Bob]

...and he sailed off to Tahiti...._/)

Well, many years ago when we were cruising the ICW we pulled into Titusville, Florida Marina for a couple of days. We were assigned at the transient dock and in front of us was a fairly decent H-28 sloop without an engine and looking rather sharp for an old vintage vessel. Their was a young guy aboard probably in his early twenties and we inquired as to where he traveled from and where he was going. He just finished college up north and was planning on heading out to "Tahiti"! No engine, only equipped with a solar distillation unit, a huge bag of rice and canned goods onboard, and with all the confidence in the world he was destined to make the voyage. His sailing experience was limited to coastal day sailing on friends pocket cruisers. What do you say to a young man like this? Your nuts!!? Should we call his family? Or report him to the Coast Guard? Was this a Robin Lee Graham or Tania Abei in the making heading out to see the world? He left as the sun rose before we could wish him well and never heard or have seen him since. This one encounter left an imprint on me that lasts to this day. Its not so much the experience as it is the determination and the will and desire to succeed. I know in my heart that he made it and perhaps he is reading this today. So you ask, "when is the time to go blue water sailing"? Our young friend might say, "whenever you want to make the voayge".I wish I had half as much scrot as this kid!!!.BobOn my 30 Catalina sailing up and down the lake!

 

[Joe]

hey, abby....

if you have a friend that is a certified captain and operates charters and does deliveries.... what are you waiting for???? You're ready!!! For most of us, it's not the experience (you'll get that when you make the passage), it's the time and opportunity. Your captain can provide the opportunity, all you need is to make time and just do it.

 

[ClownPilot]

Just a thought

Abby;Sometimes the best storm tests are over lakes, or resevoirs (as in your case).I've sailed both lakes and the oceans of Southwest Florida and the Keys. Pop-Up storms happen while you drop in and out of your cooler for a soda. All that fast! And some very severe weather sysems. Luckily they move along and don't last long as might be expected over other seas in other locales.Whenever Mother Nature shifts her might (energy) from overhead forces, it is the sea or the lake that must absorbe this force. Generally lakes are shallow and don't absorbe this energy as well as deeper and more vast bodies of water (like the ocean). While the ocean will damper this energy overall, a lake will reflect back this energy in some fractional form or another. Usually by pitching up some really mean chop, or even producing some rather scary waves!Not to give you false sense of security and not to encourage you to purposely head out into your locale pond in a middle of a gale, but to make you aware of the difference. Fractionally speaking it doesn't take a lot of storm coverage over a body of water to kick up some mean water. So there is untold fury in even a small storm system. Something to respect and take seriously when out on open water.Tom

 

[chuckr]

from an old guy and new sailor

i can only tell you what i did -- started sailing 5/6 years ago -- took 3 asa course and a year later bought a brand new 40' boat and brought her from annapolis to miami -- just 2 of us -- 1 1/2 years took her to bahamas -- now my house is for sale and boat is being preped to leave on an extended cruise -- 4/5 months in the bahamas then next hurricane season up the east coast then back to the islands JUST DO ITchuck and soulmates

 

[Benny]

There is much more to offshore

sailing than the weather. There are a number of disciplines you must master to make an offshore trip enjoyable and safe. I will try to list a few;1) Navigation: charts, compass, GPS2) Communication: VHF, SSB, satellite phone, internet.3) Emergency: EPIRB, Medical Kit, medical book, liferafts, jackets, watermakers, flare guns, MOB, tow services.4) Power mangement: Battery banks, recharging, system loads, generators.5) Fuel Management: Burn rate, tanks, jerry cans, knotmeter, speed and distance calculations.6) Food and water: provisioning, refrigeration, canning, fresh foods, safe temperatures, spoilage. Drinking supply, rain catching. Fresh and saltwater uses. 7) Financial: credit cards, cash, traveller checks, wire transfers, currency exchange.8) Telephones: Phone cards, cell phones9) Cruising guides: Marinas, shallows, warnings, entry and departure regulations.10) Dingui management, what type, outboard hp, oars, handheld VHF, portable GPS, Davits.11) Anchoring: Types, rode, chain, scope, number.12) Engine: trouble shoot, spare parts, 13) Sails and riggin: sail inventory, condition, riggin safety inspection and tuning, spare parts.14) Hull: bottom paint, cleaning, through the hull, rudder, steering mechanism.15) Weather: radio, radio fax, radar, barometer, cloud formations, storm tactics, lightning, Heave to.16) Sanitation System: Heads, pumping regulations, what goes in what don't, spare parts.I'm sure I have left off a few but you will need to master all these before cruising offshore. Start by taking short coastal trips, and brushing up in provisioning, boat handling, navigation and anchoring. Use VHF radio and plan fuel requirements. There are many books on all the above topics; when at home learn about the different systems. You will know when you are ready to go offshore. Short passages like to the Bahamas and Dry Tortugas are great confidence builders as they will test your knowledge of all the aspects of living and travelling aboard a boat. Live your Dream.

 

[John Dawson]

Offshore

I agree with Fred and Benny. I have limited offshore experience, fortunately in a great bluewater boat, but I would add a few more thoughts.What I found was that everything you learn in small boats in small waters applies to going outside. It forms the base of your abilities, and little you have done is useless or contradicted. Furthermore, your foundation in small arenas enables you to read and understand things you haven't yet come to, like the tactics in heavy weather, etc. I found I had absorbed ideas that I could experiment with when I met those conditions, and was aware of some pitfalls. There are certainly conditions you will not encounter, both good and bad, short of going offshore.Which brings me to the next suggestion, and that is to find an opportunity to go first with others more experienced, in a well prepared boat, either in a school or by racing or cruising.Let's be very clear about one thing, a Mac (21,22,25,26) is NOT an offshore boat. Only careful coastal cruising and island hopping is reasonable. Your comments do not indicate what your plans are, but you can get any opinion you like on these sites about this subject.You might study some of the offshore race websites that specify what equipment and boat preparation is considered mandatory; its pretty intimidating. Fortunately there are those who prepare what they can and go do it, improving on the way.

 

[tom]

Sail When it's Rough

A friend owned a Mac 25 years ago. It sailed well in light wind. We had a lot of fun with that boat seeing who could get the most water in the cockpit!!!  But sailing in your lake when it's rough will give you insight into how a boat behaves without the danger of being off shore. Most lakes have coves or islands to hide from the wind if needed.  As Fred said coastal sailing is more demanding than blue water. Lake sailing is much more demanding of your ability to sail especially in a small lake. Some friends sailed from Panama city to Key West and most of their compliants were about a lack of wind. One guy got caught between two storms for 36 hours or so but said that it wasn't too bad just tiring. He slept will his buddy sailed for 4 hours then reversed roles.  My wife and I are working up to blue water by coastal sailing. So far our longest trip has been 24 hours from Panama City to Pensacola. Last trip the wind was about 20kts and my wife wouldn't take the helm. We weren't scared it was very beautiful with the whitecaps lit up by an almost full moon. On another trip we had to motor all night for lack of wind through patches of dense fog. The fog was far scarier to me than the wind especially when we heard ships. Our present boat a Pearson 323 isn't suitable for blue water even though I've read accounts of people sailing one to Bermuda. It's kinda sobering to be a few miles offshore and pass a large tree... that would be interesting to hit at night in 20 knots of wind!!!! But exactly what would prepare you for the ultimate storm or sinking 100 miles from shore??? The boat is at least as big a part of the equation as the sailer. I've been out in stuff in the Pearson that would have been extremely uncomfortable or unmanageable in our old 1988 Mac 26. 20 kts of wind and 6' waves make the P323 happy but the same conditions in the Mac would mean surfing down waves with a danger of broaching. Fun for a few minutes to an hour but at 3 in the morning..no thanks.

 

[Ross]

I have not yet been off shore but am told

that 20 kts in the chesapeake bay is far worse than 20 kts off shore. Going to the weather in twenty knots on the bay puts green water over the bow with almost every wave.

 

[tom]

Yep Ross it's True

We've sailed in Mobile bay which is only about 12'deep. 20 knots in bay sets up a steep chop that usually splashes onboard. I'd much rather be out in open deep water. Of course mobile bay is big about 20 X 30 miles. A south or north wind with a lot of fetch is the worst. Out in the gulf the waves are higher but smoother. A few times I've been in waves 10-12' high and they just went under the boat. As long as the wave isn't breaking or causing you to surf size doesn't seem to matter that much. 12' breaking waves would be really scarey as would surfing down the face of a 12' wave. During one of the hurricanes the bouy south of Mobile was reporting 50' waves.... I don't think that there is any way to prepare for those kind of conditions. As Fred said "know the weather".

 

[tweitz]

offshore

One more fundamental difference in offshore is something I will call boat management. You need to deal with managing the crew, with handling off watches, with just plain fatigue, with learning how to really sleep when someone else is at the helm, even in difficult conditions, with making sure meals and drinks are provided and keep people well fed and rested (there's a reason any commercial boat with a crew of 4 has a cook), with dealing with crew members who have problems (such as seasckiness, fear or injury), and with the psychological as well as physical fact that there is no way to get to a refuge in 3 hours. None of these are sailing skills per se, none of these are learned on any lake (except perhaps the Great Lakes) but the failure to learn and anticipate them is a significant cause of problems. They are all manageable if you are well prepared; but they need to be anticipated.