When Are You Ready For Blue Water Sailing?

[Abby Normal]

Hard Weather

Here in Oklahoma we can get some very blustery days. When I earned my pilot's license, my instructor told me: "If you can learn to fly in Oklahoma, you can fly about anywhere because of our winds." We had a stretch from about last Sept. through late winter where the average winds throughout the day were 15 to 20 kts with much higher gusts.We also get some "blow-up" storms here and there so I think I can get *some* simulation of conditions off-shore, though we don't have any lakes with swift currents or tides, which is another element I'm aware I would have to consider out on the sea.All of your comments are very, very helpful. I just know from my flying experience that over-confidence can get you in trouble. I frequently sought out the advice of more veteran pilots, just like I'm doing now. The last thing I care for is to be stuck at sea in a dinghy for days or weeks.I certainly wouldn't care to take a Mac 25 on a long passage. As far as coastal sailing, or short passages (i.e. Miami to Bimini or Long Beach to Catalina) I've read quite a few stories of people sailing Mac 25's and 26's to islands off the Calif. coast and Fla. coast. Though, to me, the Mac 25 seems like it would be too light in rough weather and there are as many harrowing tales as there are safe passages.I'm in the middle of an ASA USCGAUX book at the moment and learning quite a bit. I plan on absorbing every last bit of information and advice I can before ever venturing off-shore. I'm very appreciative of everyone who has taken time out to reply to my post.

 

[Ross]

I believe that the least requirement

for an off shore boat would be self righting and the ability to close the boat up tight to prevent flooding. Length is not as important.

 

[newly anonymous]

the big diff

Someone mentioned the myth that if you can sail the Chessapeake you can sail anywhere. Same thing is said about San Francisco Bay. Unfortunately, the big difference between bay sailing and the open ocean is that you can't just call a towboat to get you back to port once something fails far enough offshore. Or the Coast Guard, for that matter. So don't go out there until you feel confident that you can fix (or do without) whatever's going to need fixing.

 

[Tom Monroe]

Been wondering too ...

I was reading Benny's response and thinking how it summarized my thinking and concerns on the issue.I'm a very experienced inland lake sailer and racer, including a few Mac's and other races out of Chicago. I own and actively (accept this year when it's on the hard ) sail a C27. I think I'm fine with the sailing and weather part. But lakes are not like the ocean. It's tides, currents, and navigation that give me pause about cruising (in my case, bareboating). The Moorings says "no problem" w/renting me a boat in the Virgin Islands.Like Abby, I just don't know. I'm wondering whether they want to make money on me and whether I'm being safe.Tom MonroeCarlyle Lake

 

[tom]

What do You Mean Blue water

If you are talking about sailing to Bermuda or five days across the gulf it's one thing but are we talking sailing from South Africa to Florida??? I feel that I could make the jump to Bermuda fairly safely. Pick a good time for good weather and an appropriate boat. I'd be more hesistant to try San Francisco to Hawaii. But I'd rather sail across the atlantic than from Seattle to Panama. I wouldn't hesistate to cross the Gulf Stream to the Bahamas in good weather.  How blue is the water that we are talking about. But I must admit to feeling pretty alone 10 miles off Florida at 3 am. Not scared not lonely but pretty alone if something happened.

 

[Abby Normal]

Tidy Bowl

Blue water, you know, like the Tidy Bowl Man! Sorry, couldn't resist.I'm a long ways away from even thinking about sailing from the East Coast to Bermuda. I was very taken by the Conch Cruisers excursion from Miami to the Bahamas, that would be the first hurdle after coastal sailing.My dream is to one day (after gaining coastal and short passage experience) ultimately sail from Miami to the Bahamas, sail down the Bahamas to the Dominican Republic, PR, the VI's and follow the islands to South America, follow the north coast of SA to CA, and the Yucatan, then along the east coast of Mexico back to Texas. Naturally, that's a retirement dream or after I hit the lottery...I was thinking about maybe next summer or the following spring/summer taking the boat down to Fla and sailing from perhaps Ft. Lauderdale to the Keys for a first coastal (or ICW) experience. And no, I don't care to be there late summer when the hurricanes typically start to threaten Fla!

 

[ClownPilot]

Sailing isn't dangerous ...

Sinking is dangerous! ;D

 

[Benny]

The only worst place besides the

Chesapeake Bay for experiencing short, steep chop is the Pamlico Sound in the Outer Banks of North Carolina. We were pinned down for three days at Ocracoke Island because of a weather system and when we were able to go we spent 10 miserable hours beating on that chop to get toOriental a short distance away. The wave action in Bays can be confused, especially where there are shallows and where there is heavy commercial traffic. Offshore the wave lengths are longer and have a pattern which allows you to get into a comfortable rythm as you sail along. I'll rather sail the trade winds in the caribbean than 20 knot winds in any Bay. Biscayne Bay in South FL is not a true bay as it is open to the the Atlantic at both the north end and the south end. There is no large commercial traffic as it is very shallow but when the wind blows the chop steps up.

 

[Ross]

Hey clown, Just like the thin places

around the edges are more to be feared than the deep places in the middle.

 

[tom]

abby You need time

The biggest problem for me is time. I have to be back at work on such and such day. If you have time to wait for favorable weather most of the problems disappear. Simply moving along the coast with time is easy. Wait for the wind to be behind the beam!!! 100 miles with the wind on the beam at 15-20 knots is easy. !00 miles with the wind on the nose is rough. On the gulf you can watch the weather systems go by and during the passage the wind will typically go around the compass and then settle back to the Southwest. But when you have to be someplace at a given time you ending up spending a lot of time beating or motoring.  Like crossing the guf stream at the right time is critical. I've crossed the GS twice. Once it was flat like a lake the other time there were huge swells out of the south.  I tried twice to sail down to the Dry Tortugas while chartering. Both times the weather didn't cooperate. It would have been easy to get there but getting back to Marathon would have been very difficult with the wind strong on my nose. While we were there the second time we met a guy who couldn't cross from a small island on the west side of the seven mile bridge for several days because of a chop produced by a strong headwind. Fortunately he had time to sit and wait out the wind.

 

[sailortonyb]

You are ready whenever you think you are ready

Experience is not measured in miles or hours if you always sail in the same area. Take your Mac 25 down the Arkansas River and get used to anchoring in strange areas and rationing fuel and food. Trailer it to different areas. If you really want the blue water experience, do what Nike says "JUST DO IT". Living in Tulsa would be a great starting point. Will take several weeks to get down the Arkansas and eventually down the Mississippi. Again, that wil be a great experience in rationing. Once you get into the Gulf, you will get many many more weeks of coastal cruising under your belt. If you dont venture more than 20 miles or so offshore, you can actually 'coastal cruise' in your Mac 25.Only problem now is that after Hurricane katrina, there isnt many placed to replenish your supplies in either direction on the gulf coast.Any way, by the time you hit Florida, you will have all the experience you will need.Then from there, the world is yours. If you get a blue water capable boat you can then go anywhere. If you still have your Mac 25, you can still coastal cruise and then jump across from the Florida Keys or from Ft Laudrrdale area to the Bahamas.Macs do it fairly regularly, although i would want something a little more substantial. Bottom line is.....with all the coastal cruising to just get to south florida, you will know if you are ready.

 

[Arlyn Stewart]

Trailer Cruising

Reading the responses in this thread was a pleasure. After a good many years racing a Hobie Cat and a taste of Great Lakes cruising with a friend, I chose the trailer cruising path using a mid twenty foot trailerable similar to your Mac.I chose the Great Lakes for the venue and found then extremely rewarding for several reasons.1. They are beautiful. So far, the several years of cruising have been on North Huron, the North Channel and Georgian Bay. All fantastic waters to sail as are most all the Great Lakes. A summer cruise offers a wonderful respite from hot summers of the south. The Canadian waters of the North Channel are sparcely populated. I've seen lots of wild life including beaver, otter, bear, dear, blue hearon and lots of birds and moose tracks though the moose has eluded so far. Wild raspberries and blue berries abound. Life is good aboard with fresh blueberry pancakes.2. The Great Lakes provide coastal cruising with opportunity for the feel of passagemaking with crossings of open water out of sight of land for many hours requiring night sailing. 3. While the Great Lakes spare the sailor concern about tides, they add heavy attention to rocks and shoals. Careful chart navigation is a must as is a watch on the weather. Conditions can challenge seamanship qualities and fortitude of crew. 4. A mid twenty foot trailer sailor can be a reasonable platform allowing cruising on a modest budget. Depending on the boat and comfort level of the crew, a days passage can be short or long, fairly protected or fairly open.5. Great Lakes cruising might be called "cruisin light" because it doesn't enter the world of doldrums. With the requirement to port every few days for ice and pump out, the cruise is moderated by some off boat walking, shopping, eating, and sight seeing. I've no desire for ocean cruising but love doing so on the Great Lakes.

 

[tom]

Beneteau 235

I met a man who trailered his beneteau 235 from Northern Alabama to near Miami and sailed it across to the Bahamas for 5 weeks. He did this with his son and said that they had a great time. Timing is everything as he said crossing the gulf stream was a non-event as it was smooth as a lake with a nice wind out of the south. He went over during hurricane season!!! But oddly enough hurricane season is a good time when there isn't a hurricane.

 

[Abby Normal]

Arkansas River

SailorTony,I'd given thought to the Kerr-McClellan navigational channel, two things that I'd be concerned about is bridge clearance along the route and how much would have to be under engine power, since it is relatively narrow and one would be heading mostly south in months of prevailing southerly winds.It would be a memorable trip to tell the grandkids about some day though. I remember reading a story a few years back about a guy who put in a canoe with his two sons at the Port of Catoosa and they paddled all the way down to the Gulf.

 

[Ross]

Many people learn to sail in the ocean

They have no choice. Once they leave the harbor they are in the open sea.In my case the closest open sea is off the mouth of Delaware Bay. Under good conditions I could probably clear Cape May light from Perryville in three days. that means that I need two weekends and the days in between to get any sea time. Maybe in a few years when I am working less and playing more but in the mean time I will sail the Chesapeake.

 

[sailortonyb]

Abby !!!

It was probably about 15 years ago when I bought a copy of book/chart combination from the Corps of Engineers. At the time it was $10. It covered the entire McClellan-Kerr waterway. Bridge heights, locks, dams, anchorages, fuel, supplies, etc. It also had radio frequencies and telephone numbers for bridges and locks.And YES, you will motor most of the way, but there will be some areas wide enough to sail. Most of the experience to be gained by the Ar. river will be in the form of learning to ration food, fuel and battery power. Also anchoring in less than ideal conditions. You will get to know every inch of your boat. It may be a few weeks before you actually get into the gulf from the Ms. river. Then you wil get your coastal cruising experience and some offshore experience. As much or as little as you like.Within a week of sailing in the gulf, you will know if you are ready for greater offshore sailing. Its not for everyone.I have sailed several off-shore trips in blue water but I dont consider myself a blue-water cruiser. I will sail offshore to save time on long trips, but i enjoy coastal cruising more. Blue water cruising is very boring to me. To each his own. Anyway, you will have many hundreds of hours daydreaming about it. Whatever you decide to do, just remember, its all about having fun.

 

[tom]

Don't go Down the River

It's a waste of time!!!! If you are comfortable in a large lake then go to a bay such as Mobile bay of Pensacola. Maybe Laguna Madre in Texas. Not a bug change from lake sailing but you can travel. You can travel from Brownsville Texas to Port Saint Joe Florida without going out into the open gulf!!!! A far better use of time than motoring down a river. Probably a lot safer too.