I went sailing last weekend in 20 mph winds. I had the main reefed and only a small area of the genoa (about 10%) was unfurled from the roller furling. I kept trying to adjust the genoa to deal with the wind conditions, but to no avail. I could not get the boat balanced. The boat seemed overpowered and I experienced extreme weather helm. I had to fight the rudder to keep the boat under control. I had the certerboard all the way down. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to deal with this problem?
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Weather Helm - Flat Sails
Sounds like you may not be able to flatten the main sufficiently. there were earlier threads that determined the culprit to be single line reefing systems that don't pull the foot of the reef out flat enough. I've repositioned / removed and re-riveted the cheek blocks further aft on the boom of my 28.5 to get more horizontal pull on the foot of the main when reefing. With a flat main, drop the travler to leward and you should be able to use slightly more headsail and ballance the boat(again it should be as flat as possible) possibly about a 100 to 110% jib. Also, if your centerboard swings up, lifting it 1/4 to 1/3 may help reduce weather helm.
Sounds like you may not be able to flatten the main sufficiently. there were earlier threads that determined the culprit to be single line reefing systems that don't pull the foot of the reef out flat enough. I've repositioned / removed and re-riveted the cheek blocks further aft on the boom of my 28.5 to get more horizontal pull on the foot of the main when reefing. With a flat main, drop the travler to leward and you should be able to use slightly more headsail and ballance the boat(again it should be as flat as possible) possibly about a 100 to 110% jib. Also, if your centerboard swings up, lifting it 1/4 to 1/3 may help reduce weather helm.
Weather helm versus unbalanced helm
Gary, you are probably dealing with two separate problems here, that may become intertwined under certain condition but should be distinguished where possible in order to find the most effective solutions. The first is weather helm; i.e. the angle by which the rudder must deviate from the center position to keep the vessel on course and prevent it from rounding up into the wind . As pointed out by the first responder, having a flat main helps reduce weather helm. In addition there are half a dozen other sail, rigging and vessel trim tips that tend to have a more or less similar effect. For a detailed discussion check the archives over the past few years. The second problem involves the degree to which the rudder is balanced; i.e. the amount of force needed on any point of sail to prevent the helm from returning spontaneously to the center position (a so-called "overbalanced helm")or turning away spontaneously from that center position ("underbalanced helm"). If you do have a Hunter 26 with a flip-up rudder, that rudder design, although in principle balanced, can be difficult to fully extend and will tend to generate strong weather helm if not fully extended. Moreover, when heeled strongly the rudder tends to become further unbalanced because more of the rudder area forward of the built-in rudder axle is lifted out of the water compared to the area aft of that axis. Since heel angle is also a major factor in generating weather helm, this is where balanced helm and weather helm problems become intertwined Again, there have been extensive discussions of rudder balance issues on this site within the last year. Success; Flying Dutchman
Gary, you are probably dealing with two separate problems here, that may become intertwined under certain condition but should be distinguished where possible in order to find the most effective solutions. The first is weather helm; i.e. the angle by which the rudder must deviate from the center position to keep the vessel on course and prevent it from rounding up into the wind . As pointed out by the first responder, having a flat main helps reduce weather helm. In addition there are half a dozen other sail, rigging and vessel trim tips that tend to have a more or less similar effect. For a detailed discussion check the archives over the past few years. The second problem involves the degree to which the rudder is balanced; i.e. the amount of force needed on any point of sail to prevent the helm from returning spontaneously to the center position (a so-called "overbalanced helm")or turning away spontaneously from that center position ("underbalanced helm"). If you do have a Hunter 26 with a flip-up rudder, that rudder design, although in principle balanced, can be difficult to fully extend and will tend to generate strong weather helm if not fully extended. Moreover, when heeled strongly the rudder tends to become further unbalanced because more of the rudder area forward of the built-in rudder axle is lifted out of the water compared to the area aft of that axis. Since heel angle is also a major factor in generating weather helm, this is where balanced helm and weather helm problems become intertwined Again, there have been extensive discussions of rudder balance issues on this site within the last year. Success; Flying Dutchman
Less main, more genny?
In addition to the previous good comments, it sounds to me like your sail set-up was unbalanced. Consider 70 to 90 percent on the genny, and a reef (or two) in the main. You need to roughly balance your sail area fore and aft of your "center of effort" a point at or aft of the mast where the sideways forces of your sails and centerboard are in balance. With 10 percent genny, you didn't have enough sail foreward to allow reasonable use of the rudder to keep your nose into the wind. David Lady Lillie
In addition to the previous good comments, it sounds to me like your sail set-up was unbalanced. Consider 70 to 90 percent on the genny, and a reef (or two) in the main. You need to roughly balance your sail area fore and aft of your "center of effort" a point at or aft of the mast where the sideways forces of your sails and centerboard are in balance. With 10 percent genny, you didn't have enough sail foreward to allow reasonable use of the rudder to keep your nose into the wind. David Lady Lillie
Weather Helm
Gary, Any of your other replies may be the answer, but the weather helm problem in my h26 was solved by proper tuning of the standing rigging. I had it done by a pro here in Puerto Vallarta and I could not believe how effective it was in balancing the helm. In 20 knots, I can carry the full headsail (I don't have roller furling), and one tuck in the main. No other adjustments and no problems. David King "Molly"
Gary, Any of your other replies may be the answer, but the weather helm problem in my h26 was solved by proper tuning of the standing rigging. I had it done by a pro here in Puerto Vallarta and I could not believe how effective it was in balancing the helm. In 20 knots, I can carry the full headsail (I don't have roller furling), and one tuck in the main. No other adjustments and no problems. David King "Molly"
David Foster is right
You need to let out more headsail. The main is trying to push you up so you need the headsail to push her down. If you then find she is balanced but you are healing to much drop the sails and head home. Not much wind though, 20 knots??
You need to let out more headsail. The main is trying to push you up so you need the headsail to push her down. If you then find she is balanced but you are healing to much drop the sails and head home. Not much wind though, 20 knots??
Mark, I have to disagree with that advice
Just letting out more jib when you are already being overpowered is not going to improve the situation (and is also not what David said). Moreover, if Gary still finds himself overpowered (after whatever adjustment he made) there are still plenty of alternative measures to try before he would need to pack it in and head home. Allow me to quote a short list of these alternatives that I just posted a few weeks ago. For a systematic rather than haphazard approach to the problem all of these measures should preferably receive some consideration. Quoting: "Using a larger jib to reduce weather helm may not always be the easiest route. Larger sails (wether jibs or mains)tend to produce more heel for a given set of conditions and more heel translates into more weather helm for most hull shapes. Therefore, it may be useful to briefly review the other measures that can be taken to reduce weather helm, even though there have been countless threads on the subject over the years. (1) DEPOWERING THE MAIN by moving the draft forward (mast bend & luff tension), making it flatter, letting the top third twist off ( allowing the boom to rise), changing the angle of attack (letting the traveler out or pinching) or reefing down (caution: sometimes a first reef has more belly than a full main). (2) MAST RAKE & BALLAST Rake the mast forward (not possible with some rig types)and make sure that the stern is not too heavy thereby causing the vessel to squat. Move ballast (dead or living) out of the stern and towards the windward side, whenever possible. (3) Since POWERING UP THE JIB can be a two-edged sword (as discussed in the first paragraph) one should try to power up without increasing heel while keeping the jib's center of effort as far forward and as low as possible (in this regard, the effect of lengthening the bowsprit by a few inches is sometimes worth a try). IMHO, the vast majority of excessive weather helm complaints among cruising vessels are caused by old, blown-out mains that cannot be properly flattened, thereby causing too much heel and too little drive (remember: at lower boat speeds the rudder powers down and larger rudder angles are needed to achieve the same steering effect)." Success Flying Dutchman
Just letting out more jib when you are already being overpowered is not going to improve the situation (and is also not what David said). Moreover, if Gary still finds himself overpowered (after whatever adjustment he made) there are still plenty of alternative measures to try before he would need to pack it in and head home. Allow me to quote a short list of these alternatives that I just posted a few weeks ago. For a systematic rather than haphazard approach to the problem all of these measures should preferably receive some consideration. Quoting: "Using a larger jib to reduce weather helm may not always be the easiest route. Larger sails (wether jibs or mains)tend to produce more heel for a given set of conditions and more heel translates into more weather helm for most hull shapes. Therefore, it may be useful to briefly review the other measures that can be taken to reduce weather helm, even though there have been countless threads on the subject over the years. (1) DEPOWERING THE MAIN by moving the draft forward (mast bend & luff tension), making it flatter, letting the top third twist off ( allowing the boom to rise), changing the angle of attack (letting the traveler out or pinching) or reefing down (caution: sometimes a first reef has more belly than a full main). (2) MAST RAKE & BALLAST Rake the mast forward (not possible with some rig types)and make sure that the stern is not too heavy thereby causing the vessel to squat. Move ballast (dead or living) out of the stern and towards the windward side, whenever possible. (3) Since POWERING UP THE JIB can be a two-edged sword (as discussed in the first paragraph) one should try to power up without increasing heel while keeping the jib's center of effort as far forward and as low as possible (in this regard, the effect of lengthening the bowsprit by a few inches is sometimes worth a try). IMHO, the vast majority of excessive weather helm complaints among cruising vessels are caused by old, blown-out mains that cannot be properly flattened, thereby causing too much heel and too little drive (remember: at lower boat speeds the rudder powers down and larger rudder angles are needed to achieve the same steering effect)." Success Flying Dutchman
Sorry Henk
But I didn't think the original post was about overpower but weather helm. Sure increasing the size of the headsail will increase heal and as I suggested if it blowing to much drop the sails and head home. But I will stand by my message that if you have a reef in the main and a little of the headsail unfurled but are having strong weather helm then by increasing head sail will reduce it. Sail the same yacht with just a main, reefed or not in strong wind will produce weather helm. And by the same token sailing a yacht with just a head sail furled or not in strong wind will produce lee helm. So the trick is to balance your sails to produce near on negative helm.
But I didn't think the original post was about overpower but weather helm. Sure increasing the size of the headsail will increase heal and as I suggested if it blowing to much drop the sails and head home. But I will stand by my message that if you have a reef in the main and a little of the headsail unfurled but are having strong weather helm then by increasing head sail will reduce it. Sail the same yacht with just a main, reefed or not in strong wind will produce weather helm. And by the same token sailing a yacht with just a head sail furled or not in strong wind will produce lee helm. So the trick is to balance your sails to produce near on negative helm.
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