What's Your PFD policy?
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pfd
nice and easy, i am an ex-miltary pilot and flight test engineer,and have done things you can't imagine, but still wouldn't go sailing without a pfd. i fail to appreciate or understand your comparisons, but i wouldn't get on a motorcycle either. what the f...(usaf english) is the problem with you guys putting on a mustang vest? if you went for military flight training you'd sure as s... have to.
nice and easy, i am an ex-miltary pilot and flight test engineer,and have done things you can't imagine, but still wouldn't go sailing without a pfd. i fail to appreciate or understand your comparisons, but i wouldn't get on a motorcycle either. what the f...(usaf english) is the problem with you guys putting on a mustang vest? if you went for military flight training you'd sure as s... have to.
Jackhartjr! Rice,bubbles and you know what's next..
The reception of course!Congradulations!!! Life is good to celebrate! To your future! r.w.landau
The reception of course!Congradulations!!! Life is good to celebrate! To your future! r.w.landau
mortyd
Just making a point mostly. I have raced motorcycles since the late 50's. I would never race without all the protective gear I can get on. But sometimes I just like to get out and plunk around some trails, and sometimes when I do this, I do not wear a helmet. Personal preferance. When the water is calm, and the seas flat, I normally do not wear a PFD. And yes this includes when single handing. Personal preferance. No one has ever gone over the side on my boat, and this includes tropical storms and some pretty rough water. When necessary I am tethered in, wear a PFD, and what ever else I think is needed. You seem to think that your personal preferance should be for everyone. The things that I can't imagine?? Do you think you are the only one who has served in the military, or been in harms way. From one reason or another I have had most of the bones in my body broken, including three vertabrae. I choose to do the things I do, and the way I do them, because I choose to do so. I do not try to impose my beliefs or my life style on others, but you seem to think your way should be for everyone.
Just making a point mostly. I have raced motorcycles since the late 50's. I would never race without all the protective gear I can get on. But sometimes I just like to get out and plunk around some trails, and sometimes when I do this, I do not wear a helmet. Personal preferance. When the water is calm, and the seas flat, I normally do not wear a PFD. And yes this includes when single handing. Personal preferance. No one has ever gone over the side on my boat, and this includes tropical storms and some pretty rough water. When necessary I am tethered in, wear a PFD, and what ever else I think is needed. You seem to think that your personal preferance should be for everyone. The things that I can't imagine?? Do you think you are the only one who has served in the military, or been in harms way. From one reason or another I have had most of the bones in my body broken, including three vertabrae. I choose to do the things I do, and the way I do them, because I choose to do so. I do not try to impose my beliefs or my life style on others, but you seem to think your way should be for everyone.
pfd
yes, nice n easy, when it comes to indoor smoking, seat belts in cars, vaccinations, pfd's, and lots of other stuff, i do think my personal preference should be a requirement. what's the downside?
yes, nice n easy, when it comes to indoor smoking, seat belts in cars, vaccinations, pfd's, and lots of other stuff, i do think my personal preference should be a requirement. what's the downside?
The downside
mortyd, the downside is that I do not want to be regulated out of existance. Our govt. is already far too big, and far too cumbersome and have far too many regulations. I reserve the right to be stupid if I so desire. I do not want big brother looking over my shoulder, at my every move. I want to live my life with as much freedom as possible. Have you ever had the pleasure of sailing at night, with a full moon, and a lady friend or wife, with both of you in the nude. You would take that pleasure away from me. It isn't your right, or privilidge to dictate how I live my life. If you look around, when on your boat, you will find that you are in the minority. In my area, during good weather, I would bet money that no more than 1% of adults are wearing a PFD. You have every right to do as you wish, as do all of us. But you seem to want to attack those who do not support your point of view.
mortyd, the downside is that I do not want to be regulated out of existance. Our govt. is already far too big, and far too cumbersome and have far too many regulations. I reserve the right to be stupid if I so desire. I do not want big brother looking over my shoulder, at my every move. I want to live my life with as much freedom as possible. Have you ever had the pleasure of sailing at night, with a full moon, and a lady friend or wife, with both of you in the nude. You would take that pleasure away from me. It isn't your right, or privilidge to dictate how I live my life. If you look around, when on your boat, you will find that you are in the minority. In my area, during good weather, I would bet money that no more than 1% of adults are wearing a PFD. You have every right to do as you wish, as do all of us. But you seem to want to attack those who do not support your point of view.
and by the way mortyd
you mentioned smoking. I am a smoker, but I do not smoke in anyones house, including my own. I respect their property, and their wishes, and I don't want to push my personal preferances on anyone else.
you mentioned smoking. I am a smoker, but I do not smoke in anyones house, including my own. I respect their property, and their wishes, and I don't want to push my personal preferances on anyone else.
Go for it nice and easy
I think you have the right idea. I never understood why males in their 20's and 30's are typically more risk-tolerant (or downright stupid, your choice) than those of us who have reached a more advanced age. It just does not make sense as they have so much to lose. If they blow a move and die they have sacraficed half a century or so of life. Every time you get on that motorcycle without a helmet you are only risking a couple/three decades. It seems like what you gain by the experience remains the same but what you risk diminishes with age. Now if you also consider the fact that if you manage to avoid all of the hazards of life and live to triple digits you will probably be living in a nursing home it makes perfect sense. If you're not living on the edge you are taking up too much space.
I think you have the right idea. I never understood why males in their 20's and 30's are typically more risk-tolerant (or downright stupid, your choice) than those of us who have reached a more advanced age. It just does not make sense as they have so much to lose. If they blow a move and die they have sacraficed half a century or so of life. Every time you get on that motorcycle without a helmet you are only risking a couple/three decades. It seems like what you gain by the experience remains the same but what you risk diminishes with age. Now if you also consider the fact that if you manage to avoid all of the hazards of life and live to triple digits you will probably be living in a nursing home it makes perfect sense. If you're not living on the edge you are taking up too much space.
Nice and easy,
Sounds like fun! My problem is the safety glasses, hearing protection, Helmet, Bullet proof vest, Pfd, Air bag, Shoulder pads, Football pants, Motorcycle boots, Parka, wetsuit, goretex gloves, and roll cage that I normally wear get in the way of having fun like that, not to mention trying to get my survival suit on. r.w.landau
Sounds like fun! My problem is the safety glasses, hearing protection, Helmet, Bullet proof vest, Pfd, Air bag, Shoulder pads, Football pants, Motorcycle boots, Parka, wetsuit, goretex gloves, and roll cage that I normally wear get in the way of having fun like that, not to mention trying to get my survival suit on. r.w.landau
Nice n Easy...what you affects all of us...
..when you fall down on your motorcycle and hurt yourself they will raise my taxes to pay for your medicare bills. So PLEASE don't get hurt. By the wise politicians who thought they were going to save taxpayers money by making helmet laws...guess what? Its costing more...those motorcyle riders with helmets instead of dying are surviving as quadraplegics. abe
..when you fall down on your motorcycle and hurt yourself they will raise my taxes to pay for your medicare bills. So PLEASE don't get hurt. By the wise politicians who thought they were going to save taxpayers money by making helmet laws...guess what? Its costing more...those motorcyle riders with helmets instead of dying are surviving as quadraplegics. abe
Let it go
I really hadn't intended to respond to this thread any more. It has been kicked around, and knocked around pretty good. But after this last post, just can't help myself. Does all this discourse from some of you mean that I shouldn't get on a motorcycle because I might tip over and get myself hurt. Taking away emergency room services from someone else. Or wasting taxpayer money on me, instead of someone more deserving. Should I not sail my boat, because there is a chance I will get into trouble and use the emergency services of the Coast Guard, and heaven forbid, be responsible for an increase in your taxes. Sorry, I won't live like that. I won't live in fear. If it ever comes to the point that I have to live like that, just hand me a gun, and the taxpayers can pay to bury me, cause I sure don't want to be around anymore. I am much more interested in how much living I can do in my lifetime, as opposed to how long I can make it last.
I really hadn't intended to respond to this thread any more. It has been kicked around, and knocked around pretty good. But after this last post, just can't help myself. Does all this discourse from some of you mean that I shouldn't get on a motorcycle because I might tip over and get myself hurt. Taking away emergency room services from someone else. Or wasting taxpayer money on me, instead of someone more deserving. Should I not sail my boat, because there is a chance I will get into trouble and use the emergency services of the Coast Guard, and heaven forbid, be responsible for an increase in your taxes. Sorry, I won't live like that. I won't live in fear. If it ever comes to the point that I have to live like that, just hand me a gun, and the taxpayers can pay to bury me, cause I sure don't want to be around anymore. I am much more interested in how much living I can do in my lifetime, as opposed to how long I can make it last.
Nice and Easy, Go for it!
My dad is 84 and still puts in a full day from 9:00am to 5:00 pm (closer to 6:00 pm) working. He loves it. By the way,he does it 7 days a week. He still likes a day off here and there to sail. He is trying to save us all by living longer so that your insurance doesn't have to pay him and so that they can continue to make a buck in his premium. He is a really good guy! If these guys are worried about the cost they shouldn't be apart of what drives costs up....They should sit on the couch and pedal thier Jack Lalane stationary to keep fit enough that our health insurance shouldn't go up and our liability policies can hold the same premium next until year. Did I mention no standing rib roasts for them. That would also make fuel cheaper because demand would be lower. I hate it when you guys drive your cars! It raises my fuel costs, car insurance and repair costs because there are so many cars on the road that they run into eachother. Nice and easy, we all make choices. We all affect the other. If you can have some video done, I would love to see it! I love life and I have a hope for the future. Can't discuss that here. Have a nice ride!( let the kid win by a few seconds... you will have him looking over his shoulder for a long time!) r.w.landau
My dad is 84 and still puts in a full day from 9:00am to 5:00 pm (closer to 6:00 pm) working. He loves it. By the way,he does it 7 days a week. He still likes a day off here and there to sail. He is trying to save us all by living longer so that your insurance doesn't have to pay him and so that they can continue to make a buck in his premium. He is a really good guy! If these guys are worried about the cost they shouldn't be apart of what drives costs up....They should sit on the couch and pedal thier Jack Lalane stationary to keep fit enough that our health insurance shouldn't go up and our liability policies can hold the same premium next until year. Did I mention no standing rib roasts for them. That would also make fuel cheaper because demand would be lower. I hate it when you guys drive your cars! It raises my fuel costs, car insurance and repair costs because there are so many cars on the road that they run into eachother. Nice and easy, we all make choices. We all affect the other. If you can have some video done, I would love to see it! I love life and I have a hope for the future. Can't discuss that here. Have a nice ride!( let the kid win by a few seconds... you will have him looking over his shoulder for a long time!) r.w.landau
Liability
The first mate and I wear manually inflated belt packs at all time the boat is moving. We sail Colorado mountain lakes. When the weather kicks up, the real vests go on. There are always multiple throwing cushions in the cockpit. It is usually just she and I and we feel feel comfortable taking responsibility for our own actions. Anybody else is strapped into a vest, or they aren't on the boat. Liability. End of story.
The first mate and I wear manually inflated belt packs at all time the boat is moving. We sail Colorado mountain lakes. When the weather kicks up, the real vests go on. There are always multiple throwing cushions in the cockpit. It is usually just she and I and we feel feel comfortable taking responsibility for our own actions. Anybody else is strapped into a vest, or they aren't on the boat. Liability. End of story.
Nice and Easy
I agree. I'm 51, smoke but go by the same rules as you, ride my bike (raced CAFE when young and dumb) race my car and don't wear a PFD unless I think the conditions warrant it. If it's flat and my butt is sitting in the cockpit pulling sheets I don't wear it. If I'm out in the Sound and leave the cockpit to go on deck, I put it on. My Grandkids put theirs on on the dock and anyone on deck, out of the cockpit wears one. If I'm out in cold water or at night, I'll wear one but nobody and I mean NOBODY has the right to tell me when and where. One thing I won't do though, is ride a bike without a helmet. I've seen a guy die at 5 MPH when his head hit a curb once and they've saved my ass more than once.
I agree. I'm 51, smoke but go by the same rules as you, ride my bike (raced CAFE when young and dumb) race my car and don't wear a PFD unless I think the conditions warrant it. If it's flat and my butt is sitting in the cockpit pulling sheets I don't wear it. If I'm out in the Sound and leave the cockpit to go on deck, I put it on. My Grandkids put theirs on on the dock and anyone on deck, out of the cockpit wears one. If I'm out in cold water or at night, I'll wear one but nobody and I mean NOBODY has the right to tell me when and where. One thing I won't do though, is ride a bike without a helmet. I've seen a guy die at 5 MPH when his head hit a curb once and they've saved my ass more than once.
Calling a Spade a Spade
Nice N Easy, your problem is not that someone is telling you what to do or demanding that you live your life in a certain way: mortyd certainly didn't try to do that, and no one else here has, either. Your problem is that you can't stand someone expressing an honest opinion (as he has every right to do) that makes your decisions look irresponsible. You don't have the courage of your own convictions. A real man would take it on the chin, remain civil, consider the point, and go about making his own informed decisions, instead of throwing a tantrum. Ride your motorcycles and continue to break all the bones you want (btw, that bit of information really doesn't lend any weight to ideas of your prudence or arguments), but please carry enough medical insurance so that you're not a burden to the rest of us. Beyond that, we don't really care, except about the image you help create in the public mind of all sailors. *** *** *** Gentleman, We can police ourselves, create a positive image in the public mind of sailors & sailing, or refuse common-sense precautions (Lord, inflatable harnesses are a huge leap forward in comfort/function, there's really no reason to remain contrary) and have restrictions forced upon us because we were negectful of maintainig a positive public opinion of ourselves and our sport. Thinking like an ambassador is the best way to to be left to our own devices (no pun intended). Jeff P.S.— inflatable harness is on before throwing off the docklines; guests wear them too, and any non-swimer wears the foam ski vest. I'm the skipper and I'm responsible for them. I've never had anyone refuse or complain. I set the tone. One beer for the skipper only on flat water in easliy managed conditions, like when it's safe to let guests take the helm and teach them how to hold a course. Otherwise, I'm as sober as a judge until the anchor is set.
Nice N Easy, your problem is not that someone is telling you what to do or demanding that you live your life in a certain way: mortyd certainly didn't try to do that, and no one else here has, either. Your problem is that you can't stand someone expressing an honest opinion (as he has every right to do) that makes your decisions look irresponsible. You don't have the courage of your own convictions. A real man would take it on the chin, remain civil, consider the point, and go about making his own informed decisions, instead of throwing a tantrum. Ride your motorcycles and continue to break all the bones you want (btw, that bit of information really doesn't lend any weight to ideas of your prudence or arguments), but please carry enough medical insurance so that you're not a burden to the rest of us. Beyond that, we don't really care, except about the image you help create in the public mind of all sailors. *** *** *** Gentleman, We can police ourselves, create a positive image in the public mind of sailors & sailing, or refuse common-sense precautions (Lord, inflatable harnesses are a huge leap forward in comfort/function, there's really no reason to remain contrary) and have restrictions forced upon us because we were negectful of maintainig a positive public opinion of ourselves and our sport. Thinking like an ambassador is the best way to to be left to our own devices (no pun intended). Jeff P.S.— inflatable harness is on before throwing off the docklines; guests wear them too, and any non-swimer wears the foam ski vest. I'm the skipper and I'm responsible for them. I've never had anyone refuse or complain. I set the tone. One beer for the skipper only on flat water in easliy managed conditions, like when it's safe to let guests take the helm and teach them how to hold a course. Otherwise, I'm as sober as a judge until the anchor is set.
PFDs' ??
DONT LEAVE THE DOCK WITHOUT IT! What is the temperature of the water where You sail??? How long can you tread water in it while wearing whatever clothing you normally sail in while the crew tries to come about and fetch you back onboard? What if you were flying the chute? You are gonna be wet for a very long time!!! What if you go over and your crew is inexperienced??? You may just be wet forever!!! Pass up a few coffees or lattes' or a case of wine and invest in a self inflating PFD!!! Over the last few years we have invested in enough inflatable PFDs to outfit all our guests. Cheap insurance in my mind!!! If you go out with us, you wear a PFD or wave to us as we sail off without you. Hard-A** attitude ??? Yup!! it is!! I don't want to lose any of my friends! Funerals are a drag! But then again ... maybe the herd could use a little culling.
DONT LEAVE THE DOCK WITHOUT IT! What is the temperature of the water where You sail??? How long can you tread water in it while wearing whatever clothing you normally sail in while the crew tries to come about and fetch you back onboard? What if you were flying the chute? You are gonna be wet for a very long time!!! What if you go over and your crew is inexperienced??? You may just be wet forever!!! Pass up a few coffees or lattes' or a case of wine and invest in a self inflating PFD!!! Over the last few years we have invested in enough inflatable PFDs to outfit all our guests. Cheap insurance in my mind!!! If you go out with us, you wear a PFD or wave to us as we sail off without you. Hard-A** attitude ??? Yup!! it is!! I don't want to lose any of my friends! Funerals are a drag! But then again ... maybe the herd could use a little culling.
Wow.
I think we're going to have to start one more site called BitterSailors.com. This bickering really has to stop. We're all sailors here. We have far more in common than we have differences. We are here to share information, not judge each other. What's happening in these past dozen replies (some of which were deleted) has _nothing_ to do with the mission of this site. The next thread that degenerates into this nonsense will result in some folks leaving the forum. If you find yourself frequently participating in the ragged end of these contentious threads... well, consider yourself warned.
I think we're going to have to start one more site called BitterSailors.com. This bickering really has to stop. We're all sailors here. We have far more in common than we have differences. We are here to share information, not judge each other. What's happening in these past dozen replies (some of which were deleted) has _nothing_ to do with the mission of this site. The next thread that degenerates into this nonsense will result in some folks leaving the forum. If you find yourself frequently participating in the ragged end of these contentious threads... well, consider yourself warned.
Take it easy Nice n Easy....gee with a name ..
like that you need to calm down and have fun here...before you have a heart attack and really cause my taxes to go up. abe
like that you need to calm down and have fun here...before you have a heart attack and really cause my taxes to go up. abe
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