What's wrong with wire halyards?

[kpgraci]

I have a wire to rope halyard on the main, the jib is all rope - I assume because the wire broke and the PO replaced it with rope because it was easy and he had rope.

I've read here and in other forums to replace wire halyards with low stretch rope that is now available - my question is why? Is there an inherit problem with the wire halyards?

Wire seems like an excellent choice for running through the masthead - strong, low stretch, thin, and a rope to wire splice is not a problem, so why switch out to low stretch line? (especially considering the possibility of needing to change out the masthead sheaves also).

 

[RichH]

Simple: they break suddenly and catastrophically and sometime when they do occasionally the formerly twisted wire becomes like an exploded banana .... and totally STUCK and wrapped around the sheeve(s), requiring one to climb the mast with a hacksaw or 'good' cable cutters, etc. Not a good place to be when underway and that sheeve HAS to be cleared.

 

[caguy]

The worn out wires make for some nasty needle like stickies that are rough on the hands.
The question I have can you run a 5/16 '' halyard though the same sheaves?

 

[Joe]

The worn out wires make for some nasty needle like stickies that are rough on the hands.
The question I have can you run a 5/16 '' halyard though the same sheaves?

That's a very good question.... and one should inspect the halyard sheave before he simply slaps in a larger diameter replacement rope.

I don't see any issue with wire to rope other than the meathook complaint. Rather than changing the sheaves to accomodate larger line, however, I think it makes alot more sense to build a "tapered" halyard for replacement. It's cheaper and stronger that wire.
A 3/16 core of resonably priced (.80/ft at www.apsltd.com) Yale Vetrus 12 has tensile strength of 4500 lbs. Cover cleating section with 5/16 Samson "cover only" at .49/ft and you've got a damn good looking replacement for less money and great strength than the old 1/8 wire to 3/16 dacron halyard.

 

[higgs]

Wire halyards are OK. I sailed boats with wire/rope for 30 years, but my present boat has rope, which i do prefer as they are easier to handle and can be replaced w/o the hassle of that splice. I have broken one wire halyard and it did nto explode, but parted gracefully. I have also broken rope halyards. The roped halyards are nice to handle and don't develope meathooks. In that 30 years I never had a wire halyard foul at the mast head. If you have them, keep using them is my recommendation. when it comes time to replace, then go all rope.

 

[kpgraci]

That's a very good question.... and one should inspect the halyard sheave before he simply slaps in a larger diameter replacement rope.

I don't see any issue with wire to rope other than the meathook complaint. Rather than changing the sheaves to accomodate larger line, however, I think it makes alot more sense to build a "tapered" halyard for replacement. It's cheaper and stronger that wire.
A 3/16 core of resonably priced (.80/ft at www.apsltd.com) Yale Vetrus 12 has tensile strength of 4500 lbs. Cover cleating section with 5/16 Samson "cover only" at .49/ft and you've got a damn good looking replacement for less money and great strength than the old 1/8 wire to 3/16 dacron halyard.

You had me at cheaper and stronger. 4500 lbs? That's a lot better than the wire I'm sure. I'm had inspected the sheaves before I raised the mast but didn't really pay attention to size other than that the wire seemed a good fit. 3/16 may work - I'll look at this when I'm doing my winter maintenance.

 

[dscribner]

I'm planning on Sta-Set 3/16" (1200 lb tensile) to 3/8" and calling it a day. I know for fact that my mainsail applies less than 187 lbs of tension to that line.

 

[Joe]

I'm planning on Sta-Set 3/16" (1200 lb tensile) to 3/8" and calling it a day. I know for fact that my mainsail applies less than 187 lbs of tension to that line.

How are you going to connect the two lines, with a knot? Because you may have trouble splicing it.

 

[dscribner]

There's another post that I'm in about 5 lines down from this. That fellow is basically saying that you take a 3/16" line and cover half of it with 5/16" "cover only". This makes pretty good sense. If I didn't do that, I would probably do what I did for my gin pole setup. I would tie a square knot between the two lines. Then I would sew thru and whip the bitter ends of each. Last of all, a length of shrink tube over the joined lines to prevent snagging. I know its suppose to be a sheet bend but I think that knot works better under load and us meant to be easily untied. Two things that I don't want.

 

[Don12364]

Stretch is the reason

All this talk and only the originator has mentioned Stretch - or rather the lack of it.
This was the only reason why wire was originally used in preference to rope but nowadays the newer fibres have similar stretch characteristics to steel wire, whilst being a bit lighter and easier to handle - and dearer?
The strength of wire or rope is hardly ever in question in sizes which have acceptable stretch characteristics as both are far stronger than needed just to hold up the sail against wind and sheet loads.
However most man made fibres are still prone to UV degradation, particularly over the masthead sheave where the halyard is parked 24/7 when the boat is on its mooring. Often the covering on the core is the rope's UV shield.
UV damage gives rise to sudden and catastrophic breakages too.

Wire is good for those who know how to handle it. With a rope tail it does not often come to hand anyway - but one needs to check for individual wire strands poking out as they are very painful as well as a sign of weakening.

 

[Maine Sail]

I'm planning on Sta-Set 3/16" (1200 lb tensile) to 3/8" and calling it a day. I know for fact that my mainsail applies less than 187 lbs of tension to that line.

It's not the load but the STRETCH. Regular Sta-Set will allow a lot of luff creep and when under sail/load it is quite tough to trim this out without luffing up to relieve the load on the luff....

New England VPC or Yale Vizzion, both sold at Hamilton, are excellent, relatively low cost and low stretch lines. I have Vizzion and like the fact that it is unaffected by rain and water like halyards made from standard materials. I have had more gourmet, lower stretch, halyards and could not discern much if any difference between the Yale Vizzion and the extra $3.20 per foot. There was a big difference however between Sta-Set X and Vizzion in luff creep. VPC is quite similar in performance to the Vizzion. These days it is really & truly set it and forget it. I am now more likely to be letting off tension rather than constantly adding it which can be a PITA...

 

[COOL]

There are still many advantages to wire to rope halyards,
in terms of cost, stretch, and durability. The modern high
performance fibers are lighter weight, but they will need to be
replaced far more often.l

 

[tommays]

My orginal 1981 J24 wire to rope haylards got a TON of use and were fine for well over 10 years

The modern super what ever ones are much nicer and did fit in the J24 standard mast space and the sheeves were fine becasue they always saw a bit of rope

My Cal 29 with external will be and easy change to all rope as the sheeves also have a good rope shape OR the sheeve guy will made new ones for about 35 dollars each

One of the bigger problems i have seen is the bushings in many sheeves are in pretty bad shape and add a lot of friction compared to ones i have replaced the bushings IN