I've been sailing small boats my entire life. I have been researching the purchase of a large sailboat, preferably a Hunter, but am wondering what the deal is with sailboat electrical systems. Every sailboat book, magazine or website talks extensively about electrical systems. My car has a sophistacated electrical system, yet I don't know anything about it. And I don't want to know anything about it. It works, and that all I care about. Do I need to be an electrician to own a nice sailboat?
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Ron Dague
Electrical system on a boat is more like a house
The electrical system on a car has a limited function. Start the engine. Then all of the power needs really come from the alternator. The battery does a little voltage stabilization, but that's about it. It's quite a different game on a sailboat. Hopefully, your engine isn't running most of the time. So you have to develop electricity, store it in batteries, and use it as needed. Since there are a lot of diffent uses of electrical power, and different people have different "toys" that they want, it is a little more complicated than your auto. That said, an electrician really isn't going to help. What is more important is an understanding of your electrical needs, your sailing versus dock habits (for recharging via shore power, alternator, solar or ????) and then a basic understanding on how the systems work to match your needs. So, if you want a turn the key approach, and don't want to study the systems, either stay on shore, or hire someone that knows boat electrical systems. Don't mean to be harsh here, and it's not difficult to learn. But it does take a little reading, discussion and thought. Just my nickle's worth.. Ron Dague S/V Finesse, h34 www.ExploreScuba.com
The electrical system on a car has a limited function. Start the engine. Then all of the power needs really come from the alternator. The battery does a little voltage stabilization, but that's about it. It's quite a different game on a sailboat. Hopefully, your engine isn't running most of the time. So you have to develop electricity, store it in batteries, and use it as needed. Since there are a lot of diffent uses of electrical power, and different people have different "toys" that they want, it is a little more complicated than your auto. That said, an electrician really isn't going to help. What is more important is an understanding of your electrical needs, your sailing versus dock habits (for recharging via shore power, alternator, solar or ????) and then a basic understanding on how the systems work to match your needs. So, if you want a turn the key approach, and don't want to study the systems, either stay on shore, or hire someone that knows boat electrical systems. Don't mean to be harsh here, and it's not difficult to learn. But it does take a little reading, discussion and thought. Just my nickle's worth.. Ron Dague S/V Finesse, h34 www.ExploreScuba.com
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Jay
That was quick!
Ron, Thanks for the response. I guess my concern is that it seems like I am going to need to know how to repair an electrical system. Are you saying that's not correct? I don't mind learning the basics, but it seems like these sytems are fragile and will require a lot of expertise or money on my part. I think my electrical needs will be simple. Starting the engine and running the lights at night.
Ron, Thanks for the response. I guess my concern is that it seems like I am going to need to know how to repair an electrical system. Are you saying that's not correct? I don't mind learning the basics, but it seems like these sytems are fragile and will require a lot of expertise or money on my part. I think my electrical needs will be simple. Starting the engine and running the lights at night.
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Jon Bastien
If it's just a starter and the lights...
... Then you're right, you won't need to learn a lot about electrical systems. However, when you start looking at larger boats, there are other demands on the electrical system- If you want a GPS, a VHF radio, a depth sounder, a stereo (a 'must have' on my boat!), refrigeration, pressurized water for cooking/bathing, deck lighting, or any number of little electrical knick-nacks that make a day-sail or overnight cruise more comfortable, then you need to do a little research and math to determine how to size your batteries and charging systems. Ron is right- Once you leave the dock and are under sail, there's nothing charging your batteries (like an alternator in your car). If you want to keep using electrical accessories, then you must either budget your electrical usage, or develop a charging system (solar panel, wind generator, or running the motor for a while) to ensure you have enough juice in the batteries to make it to the next port or to fire up the motor in the morning. 12-Volt electrical systems on boats, particularly small or mid-sized boats, are not very difficult. They're MUCH easier to understand, in my opinion, than a car's electrical systems, and are pretty straight-forward once you do a little research. My Hunter 25 has only DC power, and we keep it charged with a small solar panel and occasionally running the outboard- We RARELY need to connect to shore power to recharge, and I have what I consider to be moderate usage (CD changer and stereo all day, GPS and VHF when under way, running/anchor lights and cabin lighting at night). What size boat are you considering? Will it have AC power sources as well as DC? Have you considered adding electrical toys? I'm sure that we'd be happy to help iron out any problems or concerns with you, if you have more questions... Just post 'em here! --Jon Bastien H25 'Adagio'
... Then you're right, you won't need to learn a lot about electrical systems. However, when you start looking at larger boats, there are other demands on the electrical system- If you want a GPS, a VHF radio, a depth sounder, a stereo (a 'must have' on my boat!), refrigeration, pressurized water for cooking/bathing, deck lighting, or any number of little electrical knick-nacks that make a day-sail or overnight cruise more comfortable, then you need to do a little research and math to determine how to size your batteries and charging systems. Ron is right- Once you leave the dock and are under sail, there's nothing charging your batteries (like an alternator in your car). If you want to keep using electrical accessories, then you must either budget your electrical usage, or develop a charging system (solar panel, wind generator, or running the motor for a while) to ensure you have enough juice in the batteries to make it to the next port or to fire up the motor in the morning. 12-Volt electrical systems on boats, particularly small or mid-sized boats, are not very difficult. They're MUCH easier to understand, in my opinion, than a car's electrical systems, and are pretty straight-forward once you do a little research. My Hunter 25 has only DC power, and we keep it charged with a small solar panel and occasionally running the outboard- We RARELY need to connect to shore power to recharge, and I have what I consider to be moderate usage (CD changer and stereo all day, GPS and VHF when under way, running/anchor lights and cabin lighting at night). What size boat are you considering? Will it have AC power sources as well as DC? Have you considered adding electrical toys? I'm sure that we'd be happy to help iron out any problems or concerns with you, if you have more questions... Just post 'em here! --Jon Bastien H25 'Adagio'
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TOMMY MCNAMARA
Electrical SYSTEMS
There is an awful lot to discuse here. I have a 450 and a generator and a lot of electric appliances to boot.On the a/c we have,washer and dryer,micro wave toaster oven,stereo,2 large tv's,heater and fan in tub&shower,computer and scanner,several lamps,HVAC,Refrigeration and freezer,hot water heater,a bunch of outlets and ill say etc incase I forgot something.D/C speaks for itself. Now the Manufacture never took all of this into consieration which does create problems. When a circuit or total line goes out you have to know what caused it and until you realize that ,your in trouble, and thats not considering the marina or your power cord shorting in a big storm. I am leaving,unti we know what sie boat and amperage you are talking about.
There is an awful lot to discuse here. I have a 450 and a generator and a lot of electric appliances to boot.On the a/c we have,washer and dryer,micro wave toaster oven,stereo,2 large tv's,heater and fan in tub&shower,computer and scanner,several lamps,HVAC,Refrigeration and freezer,hot water heater,a bunch of outlets and ill say etc incase I forgot something.D/C speaks for itself. Now the Manufacture never took all of this into consieration which does create problems. When a circuit or total line goes out you have to know what caused it and until you realize that ,your in trouble, and thats not considering the marina or your power cord shorting in a big storm. I am leaving,unti we know what sie boat and amperage you are talking about.
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Tim Schaaf
Read...
My suggestion is to buy a copy of Nigel Calder's "Mechanical and Electrical Handbook". You can find it at any marine bookstore, or West Marine. If you master that (and it is quite well written), it will be YOU who is answering our questions! Seriously, it is all in there, in a readable fashion. You will have the confidence to do your own work, which will make it affordable, or to oversee and expensive "expert"! Rmember, DC can cause a fire which could destroy your boat, AC can give you a lethal shock, and poor installations and wiring (either AC or DC) can cause electrolysis that can destroy your metal fittings and engine. So, study!
My suggestion is to buy a copy of Nigel Calder's "Mechanical and Electrical Handbook". You can find it at any marine bookstore, or West Marine. If you master that (and it is quite well written), it will be YOU who is answering our questions! Seriously, it is all in there, in a readable fashion. You will have the confidence to do your own work, which will make it affordable, or to oversee and expensive "expert"! Rmember, DC can cause a fire which could destroy your boat, AC can give you a lethal shock, and poor installations and wiring (either AC or DC) can cause electrolysis that can destroy your metal fittings and engine. So, study!
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Eric Lorgus
Not just electrical, but diesel, too!
Jay, If you're not electrically inclined, I can understand your reticence. However, I think Tim's advice about studying up on Nigel Calder's book is well given. It's not so much having to make repairs as it is understanding how your system works. For example, Calder points out that there's a huge difference between the practical amp-hr capacity of your battery bank, and its theoretical capacity. Two 200 amp-hr batteries won't give you 400 amp hrs, unless you like running your batteries dead before recharging them, in which case your batteries will likely return the favor some day when you need them most. If this seems too much trouble, look into a battery monitor, like the Link systems. They will monitor amp hrs used vs total capacity, and make the decision when to recharge and for how long very simple. On top of all of this electrical advice, I'd suggest you learn the basics about your diesel engine. Again, not with the intent of repairing it, but understanding how it works, how to change an impeller, etc. Sailboats depend heavily on their auxiliaries in certain situations. You need to know at least the basics! Good luck. Eric Lorgus s/v Impulse 83H54
Jay, If you're not electrically inclined, I can understand your reticence. However, I think Tim's advice about studying up on Nigel Calder's book is well given. It's not so much having to make repairs as it is understanding how your system works. For example, Calder points out that there's a huge difference between the practical amp-hr capacity of your battery bank, and its theoretical capacity. Two 200 amp-hr batteries won't give you 400 amp hrs, unless you like running your batteries dead before recharging them, in which case your batteries will likely return the favor some day when you need them most. If this seems too much trouble, look into a battery monitor, like the Link systems. They will monitor amp hrs used vs total capacity, and make the decision when to recharge and for how long very simple. On top of all of this electrical advice, I'd suggest you learn the basics about your diesel engine. Again, not with the intent of repairing it, but understanding how it works, how to change an impeller, etc. Sailboats depend heavily on their auxiliaries in certain situations. You need to know at least the basics! Good luck. Eric Lorgus s/v Impulse 83H54
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SteveC
To Jay of City Island......
Jay, my boat is currently stored on City Island in Barron's Boat Yard. I am planning to visit/check it out this Sat. AM (approx 11:AM). If you care to talk 'electrical' and see some of the components, email me at steve.chupak@avon.com before friday to confirm..... SteveC
Jay, my boat is currently stored on City Island in Barron's Boat Yard. I am planning to visit/check it out this Sat. AM (approx 11:AM). If you care to talk 'electrical' and see some of the components, email me at steve.chupak@avon.com before friday to confirm..... SteveC
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Carl and Juliana Dupre
You don't need to be an electrician, but.....
you do need to understand and be able to attend to a few basics. An earlier post mentioned Nigel Calder's book; don't even think twice; just get onto Amazon and buy it; it's priceless. I think that there are really 3 things that you need to understand to at least some degree. First is an understanding of how much battery capacity you have and what your loads are. Unlike a car, there are substantial demands and limited recharge time (if you like to turn the motor off and sail, that is). You just need to make sure that you keep recharge and depletion balanced. Second is some understanding of the care and maintenance of deep-cycle batteries; very different from a car which is just a starter battery. Again, you don't need to be an electrician, but you do need to understand what deep cycle batteries are, what kind you have, and what you have to do to help them last. Third, and this is the closest that you come to needing to be a bit of an electrician, you should be able to do at least a minimal amount of simple troubleshooting. The marine environment is very stressful to electrical systems; vibration, pounding, and corrosion. The use of a simple multi-meter or continuity tester to figure out where you have power, and how much, and where you don't is important. That doesn't add up to anything close to being an electrician, but it is a good step above blissful ignorance. We were really concerned about this when we first started, but it isn't nearly as bad as we feared. Buy Calder's book, read, and we think you'll find the same thing. Carl and Jule s/v Syzygy
you do need to understand and be able to attend to a few basics. An earlier post mentioned Nigel Calder's book; don't even think twice; just get onto Amazon and buy it; it's priceless. I think that there are really 3 things that you need to understand to at least some degree. First is an understanding of how much battery capacity you have and what your loads are. Unlike a car, there are substantial demands and limited recharge time (if you like to turn the motor off and sail, that is). You just need to make sure that you keep recharge and depletion balanced. Second is some understanding of the care and maintenance of deep-cycle batteries; very different from a car which is just a starter battery. Again, you don't need to be an electrician, but you do need to understand what deep cycle batteries are, what kind you have, and what you have to do to help them last. Third, and this is the closest that you come to needing to be a bit of an electrician, you should be able to do at least a minimal amount of simple troubleshooting. The marine environment is very stressful to electrical systems; vibration, pounding, and corrosion. The use of a simple multi-meter or continuity tester to figure out where you have power, and how much, and where you don't is important. That doesn't add up to anything close to being an electrician, but it is a good step above blissful ignorance. We were really concerned about this when we first started, but it isn't nearly as bad as we feared. Buy Calder's book, read, and we think you'll find the same thing. Carl and Jule s/v Syzygy
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R.W.Landau
Grounding
I think that grounding and bonding are the most inportant things. Without them you always run a risk of shock hazard. This is not like a house wiring in the grounding and bonding aspect. However the ac side which has a hot and neutral is similar to house wiring. If they are reversed, not even grounding will help. Double insulated tools and most motors with a two prong plug need to be pluged in correctly. The neutral is the wider of the prongs. If they are reversed, the housing of the motors become hot(electrically). So that touching the housing and something that goes to ground will create a shock. Nigal Calder covers this. I bought the book from Borders for $50 . I recently saw it at West Marine for $26. we don't need to hear any shocking results. r.w.landau
I think that grounding and bonding are the most inportant things. Without them you always run a risk of shock hazard. This is not like a house wiring in the grounding and bonding aspect. However the ac side which has a hot and neutral is similar to house wiring. If they are reversed, not even grounding will help. Double insulated tools and most motors with a two prong plug need to be pluged in correctly. The neutral is the wider of the prongs. If they are reversed, the housing of the motors become hot(electrically). So that touching the housing and something that goes to ground will create a shock. Nigal Calder covers this. I bought the book from Borders for $50 . I recently saw it at West Marine for $26. we don't need to hear any shocking results. r.w.landau
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Peter Albright
Cars don't sink!
Boats and airplanes can't pull over to the curb and wait for the tow truck. I think the important theme is you need to understand all the systems that are on the boat you sail. How well you need to understand them depends on how far you are from help. At the least, you need to know when something is working properly, and when it's not. Everything on a boat needs to be maintained. The sooner a problem is discovered, the less expensiver the repair. I bought my 1977 Hunter 30 for half the price the previous owner paid two years earlier. The problem was that the boat sat at the dock for almost a year without use or maintenance.
Boats and airplanes can't pull over to the curb and wait for the tow truck. I think the important theme is you need to understand all the systems that are on the boat you sail. How well you need to understand them depends on how far you are from help. At the least, you need to know when something is working properly, and when it's not. Everything on a boat needs to be maintained. The sooner a problem is discovered, the less expensiver the repair. I bought my 1977 Hunter 30 for half the price the previous owner paid two years earlier. The problem was that the boat sat at the dock for almost a year without use or maintenance.
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Johnny Hughes
Don't leave home without it!
I thought I knew a good bit about electrical systems until I read Nigel Calders book "Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Manual". I have owned big boats power and sail for over thirty years, even built boats, but I was very much impressed with Calders book. And yes I know several boat owners that just turn the key and go, however if you can get a little knowledge of your electrical and mechanical systems it will get you home, maybe even save your life someday.
I thought I knew a good bit about electrical systems until I read Nigel Calders book "Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Manual". I have owned big boats power and sail for over thirty years, even built boats, but I was very much impressed with Calders book. And yes I know several boat owners that just turn the key and go, however if you can get a little knowledge of your electrical and mechanical systems it will get you home, maybe even save your life someday.
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