What's Up With Domestic Advertising?

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,204
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
I happen to get a lot of sailing mags plus some weekly and monthly newspapers, mostly because they are dirt cheap to free if you hold out. (They should be; I typically am finished with them in 15-45 minutes.)

Anyhow, it seems there is very little advertising from the domestic manufacturers, specifically Catalina and Hunter. Contrasting that, the Europeans are all over the magazines with colorful one and two page ads. Wonder if the domestics are healthy? I do see the Hunter Facebook thread and it's modestly active.

I know that alternative advertising is the trend, but I wonder if their ad agencies (if they even have them) might be risking branding and awareness in their absence? Sometimes cuts in ad budgets for economy sake starts a vicious spiral.
 

Mark48

.
Mar 1, 2008
166
Hunter 34 Milwaukee
Perhaps they are needing to advertise. There adds may get people into dealerships then the Hunter and Catalina lines may be more competitivly priced. we know advertising can be costly and that previous happy customers are your best sales people. Just maybe the US lines are giving better customer support.
 

richk

.
Jan 24, 2007
495
Marlow-Hunter 37 Deep Creek off the Magothy River off ChesBay
Rick
It doesn't make sense to me either. I was wondering that just last week while speed reading the latest SAIL. Maybe costs?
Rich
 

Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,204
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
And Another Observation...

There used to be a huge Catalina Rendezvous and a pretty good sized one for Hunter too in Catalina Island on the south left coast. Of course they way downsized or disappeared after the crash, but last year there was NO Catalina Rendezvous, nor Hunter. Some of us tried to put together a small Hunter one without factory support, but it was sparsely attended. Meanwhile, there was a huge turn out for Beneteau with a couple of hundred boats, big staging, factory sponsorship, seminars, etc. So, it's more than just advertising. IMHO, failing to provide post-owner support in terms of brand pride and excitement is a false economy. (Easy for me to say from the outside looking in.)
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Perhaps they are needing to advertise. There adds may get people into dealerships then the Hunter and Catalina lines may be more competitivly priced. we know advertising can be costly and that previous happy customers are your best sales people. Just maybe the US lines are giving better customer support.
That's probably not it. Cutting advertising is one of the fist things companies do when cash gets tight. Marketing budget?? See ya!

In the sailing business everybody knows that spending on adverts gets boats reviewed in the mags. While it does not promise a great review, it generates lots of ink on pages and pixels on the web site. It's a huge deal, and the big reason people actually still buy the mags. No one would give that up if they didn't have to.

I've been thinking about the fate of the domestic builders... they face a rather unique challenge because a huge percentage of their product is sold in the USA, unlike the big Euros that sell worldwide. That can't be good as the number of sailors decline in the USA.

I hope they carry on OK. They build a good product and serve the market well.
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,244
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
my guess is that the foreign company's advertise more is because they are reaching out to us
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,348
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
My impression is that advertising is a cyclical kinda thing. For the first few DECADES of their existence Catalina did NOT advertise AT ALL! Word of mouth sold many, many boats. And they are still around...no receiverships, transfers of ownership, bankruptcies...none of that stuff. Doesn't mean that those companies that have gone through those things are any better or any worse. Just a fact.

Their new boats have won awards, whether from advertising or good bones, who knows?

Mainsheet magazine is still going strong. Statistically, our records indicate that from 1/3 to 1/2 of the boats ever produced are still members of their respective Catalina one-design Associations. This covers the old boats and the new "5" series.

Personally, I gave up on magazines (except for Latitude 38!:)) years ago, just too much repetitive material for me that I can now get right here (!:)) and elsewhere on the internet.

"How to pack a stuffing box?" anyone? :)
 
Jun 8, 2004
3,011
Catalina 320 Dana Point
I'd suspect some of it is the decline of print media itself, a full page ad in a national magazine seems very expensive and is probably really ineffective. If I was trying to sell new boats I'd try to advertise somewhere with a lot of "wanta be a sailor" traffic, say some online forum or such.
 
Feb 20, 2011
8,062
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
I'd suspect some of it is the decline of print media itself, a full page ad in a national magazine seems very expensive and is probably really ineffective. If I was trying to sell new boats I'd try to advertise somewhere with a lot of "wanta be a sailor" traffic, say some online forum or such.
:thumbup: I suspect you're correct.
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,214
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
I dunno... my take on this one is that there are only the two or three (major) US companies left and I do see ads from them.. Catalina, Hunter, J.. and many more foreign companies.. two french, a couple of German, an Italian (or two) and some South African folks.. and a Canadian..
 
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
I think many companies, marine or not, are relying more heavily on Social Media... because its free! And because they understand now that prospective buyers are looking for reviews from real owners rather any biased reviews that may come in print which could be influenced by who is buying ad space. Viscous cycle it is even before you consider shrinking or non-existent marketing budgets.
Check your local (non-corporate) Bars, Pubs, Cafes, and Restaurants... They have always relied heavily on word of mouth to which Social Media is the modern evolution, and reaching a broader audience.

I'd suspect some of it is the decline of print media itself, a full page ad in a national magazine seems very expensive and is probably really ineffective. If I was trying to sell new boats I'd try to advertise somewhere with a lot of "wanta be a sailor" traffic, say some online forum or such.
 
Feb 20, 2011
8,062
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
I think many companies, marine or not, are relying more heavily on Social Media... because its free! And because they understand now that prospective buyers are looking for reviews from real owners rather any biased reviews that may come in print which could be influenced by who is buying ad space. Viscous cycle it is even before you consider shrinking or non-existent marketing budgets.
Check your local (non-corporate) Bars, Pubs, Cafes, and Restaurants... They have always relied heavily on word of mouth to which Social Media is the modern evolution, and reaching a broader audience.
Except for the recent revelations about false reviews ("Yelp" and the like) posted online, I agree.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I think many companies, marine or not, are relying more heavily on Social Media... because its free! And because they understand now that prospective buyers are looking for reviews from real owners rather any biased reviews that may come in print which could be influenced by who is buying ad space. Viscous cycle it is even before you consider shrinking or non-existent marketing budgets.
Check your local (non-corporate) Bars, Pubs, Cafes, and Restaurants... They have always relied heavily on word of mouth to which Social Media is the modern evolution, and reaching a broader audience.
It is your belief that these two very large sailboat builders, who's average cost of product is over $100,000, have turned their marketing strategy over to social media????
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,536
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Years ago there were various financial institutions that boat dealers could get flooring from but basically they were al bought out leaving one major player. Demands and interest rates for flooring have esculated not to mention the difficulty working with a finance company. Hunter under new ownership, I believe no longer offers dealer financing which hurts and I believe has affected their dealer network as to stocking not to mention the possible stocking requirements. As for Catalina, they offer dealer financing but I suspect the difficulties are there too not from Catalina.

Beneteau and Jeaneu are now both owned by the same person but are kept separate. Both are headquarted in France. The owner's husband now deceased use to have I believe a hardware chain in Europe and had an excellent working relationship with a major French bank who is working with the two above manufacturers and their dealers to include the U.S. dealers and probably have better terms and probably treated better.
That would appear to be true with their strong prescensens over others at the last or recent Sailboat Show in Annapolis.

With the recent recession, many middle class no longer middle class cannot afford luxury items which has hurt sales. Combined with demanded terms elsewhere, dealers in this country are trying to stay afloat. Advertising is a huge investment even back when I was a dealer and if you only knew the demands but mostly the cost to attend the Annapolis Boat Shows, it is enormous. With all this said, it does not surprise me as to lack of advertising in the magazines. I would tend to think as a business even in the Social Media, there are costs as well.

Due to health plus the fact that he is in mid to late 80's, Frank Butler did not attend the Annapolis show this year which he was sorely missed. Also their well known and highly respected representative, Ron Frisosky, passed away earlier this year and only if you knew him, Ron was respected by many to include me. However, Sharon Day and Gerry Douglas who are running Catalina too are well respected and doing a good job at that.

With two fine gentlemen, Warren Luhrs and John Peterson, gone from Hunter, that leaves Greg Emerson as Sales Manager whom I have known and respected too. Time will tell as to what will happen with Hunter. As for the past bankruptcy, Many of you do not know what occurred. Basically Hunter was in a corporation with three power boat companies which were failing this past recession except for Hunter who was propping up the other three. Well, it took its toll on Hunter and eventually the whole corporation failed. If it was Hunter standing by itself, probably no bankruptcy would have occurred.

There is no question, it is a tough time for the manufacturers and dealers and with all they are faced with, I can understand being cautious on exspenses to include advertising. Don't be fooled but they too have to pay in social media.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Years ago there were various financial institutions that boat dealers could get flooring from but basically they were al bought out leaving one major player. Demands and interest rates for flooring have esculated not to mention the difficulty working with a finance company. Hunter under new ownership, I believe no longer offers dealer financing which hurts and I believe has affected their dealer network as to stocking not to mention the possible stocking requirements. As for Catalina, they offer dealer financing but I suspect the difficulties are there too not from Catalina.

Beneteau and Jeaneu are now both owned by the same person but are kept separate. Both are headquarted in France. The owner's husband now deceased use to have I believe a hardware chain in Europe and had an excellent working relationship with a major French bank who is working with the two above manufacturers and their dealers to include the U.S. dealers and probably have better terms and probably treated better.
That would appear to be true with their strong prescensens over others at the last or recent Sailboat Show in Annapolis.

With the recent recession, many middle class no longer middle class cannot afford luxury items which has hurt sales. Combined with demanded terms elsewhere, dealers in this country are trying to stay afloat. Advertising is a huge investment even back when I was a dealer and if you only knew the demands but mostly the cost to attend the Annapolis Boat Shows, it is enormous. With all this said, it does not surprise me as to lack of advertising in the magazines. I would tend to think as a business even in the Social Media, there are costs as well.

Due to health plus the fact that he is in mid to late 80's, Frank Butler did not attend the Annapolis show this year which he was sorely missed. Also their well known and highly respected representative, Ron Frisosky, passed away earlier this year and only if you knew him, Ron was respected by many to include me. However, Sharon Day and Gerry Douglas who are running Catalina too are well respected and doing a good job at that.

With two fine gentlemen, Warren Luhrs and John Peterson, gone from Hunter, that leaves Greg Emerson as Sales Manager whom I have known and respected too. Time will tell as to what will happen with Hunter. As for the past bankruptcy, Many of you do not know what occurred. Basically Hunter was in a corporation with three power boat companies which were failing this past recession except for Hunter who was propping up the other three. Well, it took its toll on Hunter and eventually the whole corporation failed. If it was Hunter standing by itself, probably no bankruptcy would have occurred.

There is no question, it is a tough time for the manufacturers and dealers and with all they are faced with, I can understand being cautious on exspenses to include advertising. Don't be fooled but they too have to pay in social media.
Dave,

Thank you for the insightful commentary. I concur with your points.

For sake of completeness and accuracy, I'll make some comments on the French builders you mentioned.

Beneteau has been building boats for over 130 years. There has always been a Beneteau family member at the helm, and that is still true today.

In 1984 the company went public, and is traded on the Paris Stock Exchange. The executives and board are accountable to the shareholders not to the Beneteau family except in their capacity as shareholders.

In 1987 Beneteau started building boats in a brand new facility in the USA, a hugely risky move that over time has paid great dividends.

In 1995 Beneteau bought Jeanneau, who was on the brink on insolvency. The two companies maintain separate marketing, product, and sales directions, but are in all ways totally integrated. At the factory in Maron both Beneteau and Jeanneau boats roll off the line next to each other.
 
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
It is your belief that these two very large sailboat builders, who's average cost of product is over $100,000, have turned their marketing strategy over to social media????
I'm not saying I have any evidence that they have in fact turned over their marketing strategy to Social Media, only that if we are reading the writing on the wall (in this case the lack of adverts), it only follows you could reasonably make that assumption. As a business owner in the face of poor economic conditions and a limited marketing budget, I'm not saying I would rely only upon social media, I'm just saying I would lean heavily on it... That's why I mentioned the dining establishments, I know for a fact this is the case in that industry and its working for them!

Also, good point about Yelp! and others like it mentioned above...
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,536
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Jackdaw;

I was a beneteau dealer at one time and knew everyone at the factory. You are correct about the plant production in Marion and I know the building well. Once I had the sales manager state outside one of the doors the plant is very clean clear of coke cans on the grounds. I had my cocker spaniel with me and said lets follow him. Around the corner and there was a pile of coke cans my dog had found and placed in a pile. That fellow went back inside mad.

A lot of folks do not know how tough it is to be a sailboat dealer particularly if you do not own a marina nor have a large yard on the coast for servicing to back you up when times are tough. I know that advertising and shows are a big cost. many do not know that from the sidelines.

Madam Roux is committed to her dealers for both companies and personally told me once the two companies will remain separate of one another.