What's the story with heeling?

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Mar 6, 2008
1,293
Catalina 1999 C36 MKII #1787 Coyote Point Marina, CA.
Tom and Sailingdog - The correct way to spill the wind from the jib is to move the fairlead aft rather than forward. Moving it aft will tighten the foot of the sail and loosen the top so the wind will spill and reduce the heel. And for the main sail - I move the traveller to windward and loosen the mainsheet. This will raise the boom and spill the wind from the top of the main. See the link below - an earlier post regarding reefing and sail control. If I am making a mistake then let me know.

http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=112953
 
Jun 19, 2006
18
Hunter 23 -Cave Run Lake - Kentucky
We just started sailing last summer for our first time. It was amazing until we got caught up in a storm or at the least, weather we weren't expecting. This was in Oct on SE Vancouver Island (near Sidney). Our current boat (27 Catalina) handled quite well but until then, the most we heeled was probably just a couple or a few degrees. During this sail, we must have been heeling around 20 degrees, but there's no way to be sure. This really freaked out my wife! She was panicking and safe to say, I didn't feel quite at ease either. We will be sailing an Ericson 34T this year and I'll probably toss an inclinometer on there to tell how much we're heeling.

How much is too much? I'm still not sure how it works, but I can imagine it's not difficult with a good amount of wind to get the boat heeling 15 degrees or so and at that point, then it will be quite difficult for it to heel all the way over/aka capsize. Is that right? Is there an order to what we should do when we get very uneasy with the amount of heel? Such as:
1. tighten the sheets
2. drop the jib
3. reef the main
4. let out the main
5. drop the main or sail downwind if possible

What do you guys normally do?

Thanks!
Well before the wind gets strong enough to heel more than normal light air sailing, you've got to reduce sail. Learn how to "Reef" your main and practice it before you leave the dock. Reef the main and furl or drop your jib/genoa. Weather can usually be seen coming from quite a ways off. Get a full weather brief before going sailing so you'll know what to expect as the day goes on.

Once you're in a real blow, flatten the main out to depower it using the outhaul, vang and whatever else is available. If all else faills, heave too and ride out the heavy squalls for a while.
 

Benny

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Sep 27, 2008
1,149
Hunter 320 Tampa, FL
It depends on the boat, some are designed to increase their "LWL" as they heel but most modern Hunters can sail faster and with less weather helm when upright or less than 15 degrees of heel. The biggest thrills you can probably get from deep heeling is when you are running downwind on a freshening breeze and need to come around to lower your sails. To avoid heeling you can get a large enough multihull.
 
Mar 2, 2008
406
Cal 25 mk II T-Bird Marina, West Vancouver
Sounds like you and your wife should take a "CYA coastal cruising course". Have a look in the Pacific Yachting magaizzine, lookup Canadian Yachting Association and the local CPS group (Canadian Power and Sail Squadron) for information.
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
While a multihull won't heel....it will capsize unless the boat is sailed properly. You really need to reef a multihull early compared to a monohull. Multihulls reef for the peak winds speeds, rather than the average wind speeds. A multihull can't bleed off the excess wind the way a monohull does by heeling.
It depends on the boat, some are designed to increase their "LWL" as they heel but most modern Hunters can sail faster and with less weather helm when upright or less than 15 degrees of heel. The biggest thrills you can probably get from deep heeling is when you are running downwind on a freshening breeze and need to come around to lower your sails. To avoid heeling you can get a large enough multihull.
 

kenn

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Apr 18, 2009
1,271
CL Sandpiper 565 Toronto
Much sage advice here. I'll just underscore the two points that were most important points for us:

1 - My wife took CYA Basic Cruising on her own, and that made her much more comfortable and proactive as a sailor

2 - I had to learn to pay better attention to weather forecasts, and to choose sails more sensibly: putting on the jib and reefing pre-emptively

It's a great feeling to be out in 20+ kt, yet comfortable and in control.
 

BobM

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Jun 10, 2004
3,269
S2 9.2A Winthrop, MA
Comments

Much sage advice here. I'll just underscore the two points that were most important points for us:

1 - My wife took CYA Basic Cruising on her own, and that made her much more comfortable and proactive as a sailor

Mine did too...forgot everything in six months though! Says she doesn't retain information about things she doesn't like to do LOL.

2 - I had to learn to pay better attention to weather forecasts, and to choose sails more sensibly: putting on the jib and reefing pre-emptively

I agree. Experience comes with experiences.

It's a great feeling to be out in 20+ kt, yet comfortable and in control.
Amen to that!
 

MrBee

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Dec 30, 2008
425
Irwin 34 Citation Middle River, Md.
My wife was new to sailing last year. I started out by being VERY conservative. It depends on your wife but knowing mine I knew that is I over did it she would not get back on the boat. If i have to take 3 seasons to build her up to the max heeling i would do based on boat speed and such then so be it. Last season we only spent 1 night at anchor at a time. This year i plan to take a 2 or 3 nights away early on then later in the summer or early fall try a week.
Heck i'm not even sure yet what my comfort level is on the boat we have. I know what it is on others boats i have sailed many times on but each boat is a little dif.

Thanks for the idea whoever said to let the wife in control of the mainsheet and practice releasing it. That is a great idea and i will be using it soon.

Bee
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
Generally, I recommend both people in a couple take a ASA 101 or equivalent course, preferably separately. Not only does it give each person a foundation of decent sailing knowledge, it also lets them communicate better, since the terminology and such is known to both.

Much sage advice here. I'll just underscore the two points that were most important points for us:

1 - My wife took CYA Basic Cruising on her own, and that made her much more comfortable and proactive as a sailor

2 - I had to learn to pay better attention to weather forecasts, and to choose sails more sensibly: putting on the jib and reefing pre-emptively

It's a great feeling to be out in 20+ kt, yet comfortable and in control.
 
May 25, 2004
99
Catalina 27 Carlyle Lake
Here's a quick and instructive story on sailing C27's upright.

Last fall, I was heading back up the lake, hard onto a building wind, with another boat footing right along with me. Both of us had full mains and 110's up, and struggling to keep from rounding up in the gusts. With only about 15 minutes and one tack left to the marina, I just dropped the main instead of reefing and continued with just the 110.

The boat stood up, less fighting in the puffs, and I began to point better than and sail faster than the other boat.

It's fun to lay them over from time to time, but you're not really sailing faster.

Tom
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,240
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
I don't think it is good advise ...

to tell new sailors that when healing becomes excessive, just release the main and let go of the tiller (or wheel). That just lets the boom fly, the boat changes direction dramatically, sometimes swinging through the wind so that the jib backwinds while cleated in and causing even bigger problems. Sure, the boat momentarily stands up (too abruptly). But, my general feeling is that simply releasing the mainsail can cause more chaos than wanted and gives everyone even less confidence.

Of course, you want to ease the sheet or preferably the traveler, but it should be controlled. I found that the best way to ease the concerns of any crew who are nervous about healing, is to have them steer. I instruct them to maintain the course and I play the traveler and the sheet to demonstrate how healing is easily controlled. Normally, we are dealing with people who are nervous but rational, whose concerns can be tempered by a confident captain. Of course there are people who have an irrational fear, and I am sure that is a bigger problem.

I will also concede that nervous people on our boat are comforted because we are on a small lake with a lot of boats around and warm water. People basically understand that even ending up in the water is not a big deal where we are. It is something entirely different, though, for a nervous person to be miles from land in even a moderate swell, no boats around, and frigid water. Psychologically, people know that being in the water in those conditions would be a major crisis. So if you can get over the hurdle of instilling confidence under controlled, benign situations, rather than waiting until you are miles from shore in arctic waters before the person first experiences a healing sail boat, you will be better off.
 
Jan 27, 2007
383
Irwin 37' center cockpit cleveland ohio
I just turn the wheel away from the wind, As she begins to stand up, I ask "Is this more comfortable?" They always say yes. From that point I can do a lot of things, all with the sails. NOW you can let them out without a problem, or reef, or take one of the three in.
Just turn away from the wind which is why the saying is "Gentlemen never sail to weather".
 

r.oril

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Oct 29, 2008
586
MacGregor 26D and Catalina 30 26 - 30 Lancaster, CA
"Very Interesting Reading". I just set my Mac 26D up with a deck organizer this winter so I could drop the sails from the cockpit. Wednesday, I was out on Lake Pyramid with the Big Genie up for the first time (damn it's big) and it got gusty so I just turned down wind and dropped the Genoa. The gust went away, I packed the sail into the bow rail and sailed on. Later when going back to the dock, down wind, I raised the genoa back up and butterflied the sails. The GPS said I was at 6.4 Knots.
Washing the windows is exciting but I like 15 degrees and so does my Mac.

I really enjoyed reading all of the above. Makes me realized how little I really know.

Bob
 
Dec 14, 2009
26
Truant 33 pilothouse Victoria
To ease the pressure and bring the boat upright, flatten sails and add lots of twist, if that doesn't work reef.
To flatten you need backstay tension, halyard/cunningham tension and outhaul.
To twist move the headsail fairleads aft. On the main, ease the vang and drop the traveller down to leeward.
The big indicator of too much heel is weather helm. Once the center of effort gets out over the water the tendency for the boat to turn into the wind will eventually overpower the turning force of the rudder (which gets less and less efficient with more heel). The result is the dreaded round up. If you have lots of weather helm, flatten, twist, and then reef.
 
May 12, 2009
5
Ericson 34T Sidney, BC
I've loving this thread. There seems to be a ton of very useful information for when we go back out again. My dad and I are probably going out in the Ericson 34 in the next week or so and we'll see how this boat handles in comparison to the Catalina 27 we had last year. I'll definitely be looking up the books that have been mentioned as well as check out the "coastal cruising course". My wife and I did the CPS (Power Squadron) safe boating course which had next to nothing in it with regards to sailing.
 

BobM

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Jun 10, 2004
3,269
S2 9.2A Winthrop, MA
The difference will be night and day. A 34 will react much slower to the forces of nature than a 27...but don't get overconfident.

I advised a friend to drop his sails before we entered our inner harbor because we had gotten slammed on the way out by strong winds from the NW. He didn't and we got our butts kicked on his 37 foot Hunter Cutter at precisely the same spot. Just after we turned into the wind to drop the sails a gust hit us that must have been 30 knots and was sustained long enough to knock the bow out of the eye of the wind just as I had gone forward to drop the main. It rolled us over to 20+ degrees in a heart beat. I wasn't familliar with his boat and couldn't immediately respond by dropping the main because his set up was a bit weird. He hadn't started the engine yet either, which was a big mistake as we couldn't power out of it.

The first couple of years you just don't have the experience to allow you to think ahead and and forethought is required for nearly every decision you make on a sailboat.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
I once went forward to drop the sails and asked Nancy to start the engine and head up into the wind. So she started the engine and steered into the wind and the bow promtly fell off onto the other tack. I asked her to keep it on the wind and she said she was trying. I looked back and asked her to put the engine in gear. lol ;)
 
May 20, 2004
151
C&C 26 Ghost Lake, Alberta
There's a lot of good advice here and a lot of bad advice - a lot of contradictions. The trick is to sort out the good stuff from the guesswork!

My advice would be to forget the CYA course - It'll teach you how to provision the boat but nothing about sail trim.
Try to get someone who knows this stuff to take you out for a sail and teach you. That way you'll get to feel safe and be able to learn safely as you sail. You wont remember it all as you're new to sailing, but you'll pick up enough to feel comfortable about continuing. In my experience, a lot of new sailors frighten themselves to death in the first year and sell the boat. I work in a marina part time and you'd be surprised how many times we sell the same boat!

After you get a few years in, consider taking a sail trim coarse. It will pull all your experiences together and you'll be a much better sailor ...and feel confident and proud of your skills. Also, your wife will keep sailing - which is also more fun!

There's a great guy out your way, Larry Bougi in Anacortes who teaches a dedicated sail trim coarse on his custom Wylie 52. Weekend coarse - best I ever took!
http://sailingtoursnw.com/

sam :)
 
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