Can someone explain the difference between a swing keel (Catalina), and a Centerboard keel (o'day)......Thanks, Bill
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Larry W.
Swingin' it
Bill; Generally, swing keels pivot on a pin and are the only portion of the hull to take a "bite" on the water to prevent lateral drift. Centerboards are usually found on shallow draft keel boats, to give them a little extra lift to windward and are lowered in deep water. Hope this helps.
Bill; Generally, swing keels pivot on a pin and are the only portion of the hull to take a "bite" on the water to prevent lateral drift. Centerboards are usually found on shallow draft keel boats, to give them a little extra lift to windward and are lowered in deep water. Hope this helps.
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Bob
SeeBees and EssKays
Swing keels provide a high percentage of the boat's ballast, and are generally made of cast iron or lead, and on a boat of any size weigh in the hundreds of pounds. Centerboards can be made of metal, but also can be wood, fiberglass, other, or a combination of the above. For example, the board on my Ericson has a steel spine and rib, with lead in the tip, but is wrapped in a resin composite and fiberglass.
Swing keels provide a high percentage of the boat's ballast, and are generally made of cast iron or lead, and on a boat of any size weigh in the hundreds of pounds. Centerboards can be made of metal, but also can be wood, fiberglass, other, or a combination of the above. For example, the board on my Ericson has a steel spine and rib, with lead in the tip, but is wrapped in a resin composite and fiberglass.
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Scott Mathey
Swing Keel
Swing keels usually swing up into a space in the bottom, they are popular on water ballast boats. They pivot from aprox.the center to the back of the boat and swing into a trunk or slot for this purpose. A dagger board or centerboard keel usually retracts vertical,straight up into the cabin of the boat. West White Potters use a daggerboard/centrerboard keel. I use a walker bay 8' for dinghy and the sail kit that you can buy for it has a centerboard keel. Hope this helps answer your question. Happy Sailing.
Swing keels usually swing up into a space in the bottom, they are popular on water ballast boats. They pivot from aprox.the center to the back of the boat and swing into a trunk or slot for this purpose. A dagger board or centerboard keel usually retracts vertical,straight up into the cabin of the boat. West White Potters use a daggerboard/centrerboard keel. I use a walker bay 8' for dinghy and the sail kit that you can buy for it has a centerboard keel. Hope this helps answer your question. Happy Sailing.
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MArk
What Bob said
I had a Venture 17 with pivoting, weighted (400#) keel. It did not retract all the way into the hull but projected about 6" when full lifted. There was no other ballast on the boat. The arrangement was always referred to as a swing keel. My O'Day 20 has a pivoting fin also but the entire ballast is on a fixed stub keel that this fin retracts totally into. This keel type is typically referred to as a centerboard. I hope this doesn't add to your confusion. Happy Mardi Gras, MArk
I had a Venture 17 with pivoting, weighted (400#) keel. It did not retract all the way into the hull but projected about 6" when full lifted. There was no other ballast on the boat. The arrangement was always referred to as a swing keel. My O'Day 20 has a pivoting fin also but the entire ballast is on a fixed stub keel that this fin retracts totally into. This keel type is typically referred to as a centerboard. I hope this doesn't add to your confusion. Happy Mardi Gras, MArk
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R.W.Landau
Swing keel/center board
Swing keels are the ballast for the Catalinas. The O'day has the ballast in a keel trunk that is attached to or an integral part of the boat . The center board (Fiberglass no ballast) swings into the keel truck( the trunk is usually about 10" to 15"deep) The Pivot is usually just behind the mast on both the O'Day and the Catalina. In other words the swing keel is ballast and the centerboard is not. You can pull up a centerboard by hand but need a winch to crank up a swing keel. A Dagger board is worked vertically. r.w.landau
Swing keels are the ballast for the Catalinas. The O'day has the ballast in a keel trunk that is attached to or an integral part of the boat . The center board (Fiberglass no ballast) swings into the keel truck( the trunk is usually about 10" to 15"deep) The Pivot is usually just behind the mast on both the O'Day and the Catalina. In other words the swing keel is ballast and the centerboard is not. You can pull up a centerboard by hand but need a winch to crank up a swing keel. A Dagger board is worked vertically. r.w.landau
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Bob
Good description, R.W. . . .
but if you can pull my board up by hand I'll buy you a 6 pack of your favorite brew. Though it only weighs about 170, the cable is attached about a foot from the pin, and it dang near rips the winch out pulling it up. No cable hum at hull speed, though.
but if you can pull my board up by hand I'll buy you a 6 pack of your favorite brew. Though it only weighs about 170, the cable is attached about a foot from the pin, and it dang near rips the winch out pulling it up. No cable hum at hull speed, though.
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R.W.Landau
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Bill
swing keel/center board
I am in the market for a boat(25 foot probably) and that's why I'm wanting to get the pros and cons of each.... it sounds like the swing keel, since it has the most weight will be the more stable of the two....however, I've read some real horror stories on here about the swings..... do the other boats(like the O'days) maintain enough balast to make the boat stable in stronger winds?
I am in the market for a boat(25 foot probably) and that's why I'm wanting to get the pros and cons of each.... it sounds like the swing keel, since it has the most weight will be the more stable of the two....however, I've read some real horror stories on here about the swings..... do the other boats(like the O'days) maintain enough balast to make the boat stable in stronger winds?
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MArk
Depends what you mean by stable
Bill, Having the ballast lower, like with the swingkeel, theoretically allows you to carry more sail in heavy weather. In reality, this just isn't so. All these small, light boats have a lot of weather helm in strong winds. In fact, some have been known to spin completely around in a gust. With a boat that has only two narrow fins (centerboard/swingkeel and rudder) for lateral resistance, you will become unstable as soon as one or the other is overpowered by the sails and stalls (is pushed sideways through the water). The O'Day 25, with its stubby fixed keel and centerboard, is not as efficient going to wind in light air but is less likely to throw you in a blow. Either arrangement can be self righting. Either can be knocked down by a gust. Either can be rolled by a wave from abeam. There are so many other factors to consider when buying a boat. Don't give the centerboard vs swingkeel issue more importance than it deserves. Every boat is a compromise. Select the one that best suits the way you want to sail. (see link below) Happy sails _/), MArk
Bill, Having the ballast lower, like with the swingkeel, theoretically allows you to carry more sail in heavy weather. In reality, this just isn't so. All these small, light boats have a lot of weather helm in strong winds. In fact, some have been known to spin completely around in a gust. With a boat that has only two narrow fins (centerboard/swingkeel and rudder) for lateral resistance, you will become unstable as soon as one or the other is overpowered by the sails and stalls (is pushed sideways through the water). The O'Day 25, with its stubby fixed keel and centerboard, is not as efficient going to wind in light air but is less likely to throw you in a blow. Either arrangement can be self righting. Either can be knocked down by a gust. Either can be rolled by a wave from abeam. There are so many other factors to consider when buying a boat. Don't give the centerboard vs swingkeel issue more importance than it deserves. Every boat is a compromise. Select the one that best suits the way you want to sail. (see link below) Happy sails _/), MArk
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Julio
Prefer a fixed keel
Having sailed 22' & 25' boats with both swing and fixed keels, I prefer the fixed keel versions. In both cases they were easier to sail in stronger winds and gusts. There is also less to maintain with a fixed keel. The down side is that you can't go into shallow water like you can with a swing keel. That's a nice feature if you sail in an area with lots of shoals.
Having sailed 22' & 25' boats with both swing and fixed keels, I prefer the fixed keel versions. In both cases they were easier to sail in stronger winds and gusts. There is also less to maintain with a fixed keel. The down side is that you can't go into shallow water like you can with a swing keel. That's a nice feature if you sail in an area with lots of shoals.
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Bill
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R.W.Landau
Bill
I own a 25 O'Day c/b. I like that fact that the keel trunk is about 6' long. If I have proper sail up, I do not deal with weather helm. I like my ballast attached to the boat. I don't like the Catalina swing keel because ALL of the ballast is hanging on one pit. However, I do like the Catalina Wing keel that is very trailerable ( similar to the swing keel of centerboard) an only draws about 3'. It has about 300 to 400 pounds more ballast than the swing keel but it is ATTACHED to the bottom of the boat. I know someone is going to bring up Huntrs water ballast and thee Mac's but I like traditional looking and functioning boats. Just my opinion r.w.landau
I own a 25 O'Day c/b. I like that fact that the keel trunk is about 6' long. If I have proper sail up, I do not deal with weather helm. I like my ballast attached to the boat. I don't like the Catalina swing keel because ALL of the ballast is hanging on one pit. However, I do like the Catalina Wing keel that is very trailerable ( similar to the swing keel of centerboard) an only draws about 3'. It has about 300 to 400 pounds more ballast than the swing keel but it is ATTACHED to the bottom of the boat. I know someone is going to bring up Huntrs water ballast and thee Mac's but I like traditional looking and functioning boats. Just my opinion r.w.landau
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Jim A
Here it is
Swing keel usually means the keel swings down and provides ballast (not always). A centerboard usually means it is an unweighted board (not always). Good Luck!
Swing keel usually means the keel swings down and provides ballast (not always). A centerboard usually means it is an unweighted board (not always). Good Luck!
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Bob
To digress, R.W., my boat
is a 27 year old Ericson 23. I wasn't sure I'd like a CB boat, and thought I wanted the FK model, but now I wouldn't have it any other way. It's real nice on the wind (2 fingers on the tiller), makes minimal leeway, and I can trailer it home at the end of the season.
is a 27 year old Ericson 23. I wasn't sure I'd like a CB boat, and thought I wanted the FK model, but now I wouldn't have it any other way. It's real nice on the wind (2 fingers on the tiller), makes minimal leeway, and I can trailer it home at the end of the season.
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tom
swing keels have problems
I have owned a swing keel and a centerboard. The swing keel weighed 650 pounds and had a winch to raise and lower. It was a a great bottom finder and would be hard to beat in shallow waters. The cable hummed when we went very fast and I once caught a large tree limb between the cable and keel. This required me to go overboard in cold water. I think that it would be great at catching crab pots. Under some conditions the keel would move back and forth in it's trunk. I had to replace the cable and sometimes forgot to crank it up all of the way and this caused problems taking it off the trailer. This boat had a hollow shallow keel in which the swing keel was stored. The daggerboard was not weighted and weighed about 25 pounds. It was more fragile and it cracked when I hit a submerged ledge. Overall I liked the daggerboard much better. Mostly because it didn't require several minutes of cranking to raise and lower. If I wasn't wanting to trailer or sail shallow water I would want a fixed keel. Tom
I have owned a swing keel and a centerboard. The swing keel weighed 650 pounds and had a winch to raise and lower. It was a a great bottom finder and would be hard to beat in shallow waters. The cable hummed when we went very fast and I once caught a large tree limb between the cable and keel. This required me to go overboard in cold water. I think that it would be great at catching crab pots. Under some conditions the keel would move back and forth in it's trunk. I had to replace the cable and sometimes forgot to crank it up all of the way and this caused problems taking it off the trailer. This boat had a hollow shallow keel in which the swing keel was stored. The daggerboard was not weighted and weighed about 25 pounds. It was more fragile and it cracked when I hit a submerged ledge. Overall I liked the daggerboard much better. Mostly because it didn't require several minutes of cranking to raise and lower. If I wasn't wanting to trailer or sail shallow water I would want a fixed keel. Tom
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Don Bodemann
RW..one pin?
RW, Have to disagree with you on this one. Yes, there is one pin...typically a big beefy one-inch thick bronze pin and lets not forget the SS cable. But back to the pin, Most of our rigs depend heavily on one little pin. Yes there are many such little pins, but in a strong blow, if just one of those little pins lets go, the rig is coming down. I like (appreciate) things that work. From my experience with two swing-keel boats, the swing keel concept is nice and simple, and it works. Catalina produced thousands of these boats and occasionally you hear of a problem, but for the most part they keep going and going. Happy sails, Don
RW, Have to disagree with you on this one. Yes, there is one pin...typically a big beefy one-inch thick bronze pin and lets not forget the SS cable. But back to the pin, Most of our rigs depend heavily on one little pin. Yes there are many such little pins, but in a strong blow, if just one of those little pins lets go, the rig is coming down. I like (appreciate) things that work. From my experience with two swing-keel boats, the swing keel concept is nice and simple, and it works. Catalina produced thousands of these boats and occasionally you hear of a problem, but for the most part they keep going and going. Happy sails, Don
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R.W.Landau
Don,
It is not just the one pin. The two bolts on each side the hold the pin. A 1700 pound (Catalina 25) ,5 foot lever arm That is held on to the fiberglass hull with two bolts on ech side , maybe 6 inches from the centerline. I have seen the damage that can be done when a cable breaks and the keel swings down unimpeded. It did not break the bolts but it damaged the housing pretty bad. I think that both the Swing keel and the Centerboard are both vunerable to side forces like groundings. I would perfer loosing a centerboard over loosing a swing keel if things go wrong. Like I said in other posts, I know people that don't worry about it. I do. I do not want to be one of those occasional problems. I agree, in fair winds they are good and they do trailer easily. Catalina had a very successful boat in the swing keels. As I said before ... I like the Catalina wing keel over both the Catalina Swing keel and the O'Day centerboard. Again to qualify this I am speaking of the 25' range. Again, Just my opinion, Good sailing r.w.landau
It is not just the one pin. The two bolts on each side the hold the pin. A 1700 pound (Catalina 25) ,5 foot lever arm That is held on to the fiberglass hull with two bolts on ech side , maybe 6 inches from the centerline. I have seen the damage that can be done when a cable breaks and the keel swings down unimpeded. It did not break the bolts but it damaged the housing pretty bad. I think that both the Swing keel and the Centerboard are both vunerable to side forces like groundings. I would perfer loosing a centerboard over loosing a swing keel if things go wrong. Like I said in other posts, I know people that don't worry about it. I do. I do not want to be one of those occasional problems. I agree, in fair winds they are good and they do trailer easily. Catalina had a very successful boat in the swing keels. As I said before ... I like the Catalina wing keel over both the Catalina Swing keel and the O'Day centerboard. Again to qualify this I am speaking of the 25' range. Again, Just my opinion, Good sailing r.w.landau
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Bill
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