Ok so I finally got the cleat off the front of my boat low and behold I came across this crack… I’ve got spider cracks on either side of where the cleat was with deeper crack running between the bolt holes in the deck. What would you do if it was your boat?
- Status
The crack...
It's not a coincidence that the crack runs between two previously filled holes! My guess is that the holes were never feathered, initiating spider cracking, or properly bedded and sealed and moisture got in and either froze and expanded or the deck suffered heat expansion... Without knowing what those old "filled" holes were for it's tough to make an educated guess beyond what I said above.. P.S. You need to download Picasa which is Google's FREE photo software (amazing product) and utilize the "fill light" feature. You'll be amazed at what you can do.. Even as an amateur, I guess bordering on professional photographer, (I have a cover shot this month in a boating magazine) even I use Picasa. Sure I have thousands of dollars tied up in Adobe Photoshop, Lightroom and others but my go to for quick stuff is Picasa!! Picasa http://picasa.google.com/
It's not a coincidence that the crack runs between two previously filled holes! My guess is that the holes were never feathered, initiating spider cracking, or properly bedded and sealed and moisture got in and either froze and expanded or the deck suffered heat expansion... Without knowing what those old "filled" holes were for it's tough to make an educated guess beyond what I said above.. P.S. You need to download Picasa which is Google's FREE photo software (amazing product) and utilize the "fill light" feature. You'll be amazed at what you can do.. Even as an amateur, I guess bordering on professional photographer, (I have a cover shot this month in a boating magazine) even I use Picasa. Sure I have thousands of dollars tied up in Adobe Photoshop, Lightroom and others but my go to for quick stuff is Picasa!! Picasa http://picasa.google.com/
crack on deck
Depends: on how old the boat is. If the boat is fairly new but it dosent look like it from the picture. I would take it to a good yard and have it fixed professionally. If its an oldie but goodie like mine I would fill the crack with some chopped glass and resin. I would then put a coule of layers of glass on the deck over the spot that is damaged. I would then either thru bolt the old cleat or get a new one the same size and use a 1/2 inch piece of marine plywood under the deck for a backing plate.
Depends: on how old the boat is. If the boat is fairly new but it dosent look like it from the picture. I would take it to a good yard and have it fixed professionally. If its an oldie but goodie like mine I would fill the crack with some chopped glass and resin. I would then put a coule of layers of glass on the deck over the spot that is damaged. I would then either thru bolt the old cleat or get a new one the same size and use a 1/2 inch piece of marine plywood under the deck for a backing plate.
Core
My deck is balsa cored does that change anything? Should I open up the whole area? What would a good yard charge me for something like this?
My deck is balsa cored does that change anything? Should I open up the whole area? What would a good yard charge me for something like this?
This is the outside! Yes? First I would look at the inside
and see if there is evidence of the crack there. Then I would get out my 4 1/2 inch right angle grinder and grind away all traces of that crack without making a hole in the deck. I would taper the edges and lay in fiber glass and resin until I had restored the structure. Then I would fair the outside and go inside and grind away all of the crud and get down to clean glass and lay in about a 1/4 inch of new glass and resin from one side to the other and grind it smooth. Then I would paint my repairs.
and see if there is evidence of the crack there. Then I would get out my 4 1/2 inch right angle grinder and grind away all traces of that crack without making a hole in the deck. I would taper the edges and lay in fiber glass and resin until I had restored the structure. Then I would fair the outside and go inside and grind away all of the crud and get down to clean glass and lay in about a 1/4 inch of new glass and resin from one side to the other and grind it smooth. Then I would paint my repairs.
Balsa Core
If this is a cored deck, which you state it is, you are going to have more to do than a glass repair. As usual Main Sail is correct, and you have the results of a poorly done previous repair. If this were my boat and I wanted it done the right way, I would cut it back, get all the bad core material out of there. Go back at least a couple of inches, or until you get to good solid, dry core material. Then build up the area with glass, making it solid glass. Places like this, with drilled holes and stress, will always be subject to water penetration, and the only way to eliminate the problem is to have solid glass under it.If you make the area solid with no core, there is nothing to rot or delaminate, should a few drops of water find its way in. Just repairing the cracks will be a temporary fix, and sooner or later you will be in exactly the same place you are now.
If this is a cored deck, which you state it is, you are going to have more to do than a glass repair. As usual Main Sail is correct, and you have the results of a poorly done previous repair. If this were my boat and I wanted it done the right way, I would cut it back, get all the bad core material out of there. Go back at least a couple of inches, or until you get to good solid, dry core material. Then build up the area with glass, making it solid glass. Places like this, with drilled holes and stress, will always be subject to water penetration, and the only way to eliminate the problem is to have solid glass under it.If you make the area solid with no core, there is nothing to rot or delaminate, should a few drops of water find its way in. Just repairing the cracks will be a temporary fix, and sooner or later you will be in exactly the same place you are now.
Knowing now that the deck is cored. (ican't believe
that many responses that quickly) I agree with Nice and Easy grind it back to solid cored and rebuild with glass cloth and resin for a solid lay up. It would take me a day to do a solid functional repair and probably two days labor to do a pretty repair with the labor spread over about four days. Material cost would be about 100 dollars.
that many responses that quickly) I agree with Nice and Easy grind it back to solid cored and rebuild with glass cloth and resin for a solid lay up. It would take me a day to do a solid functional repair and probably two days labor to do a pretty repair with the labor spread over about four days. Material cost would be about 100 dollars.
Should a Newbie Try?
So as someone without glass laying expierence would you recomend attempting a repair yourself? Don
So as someone without glass laying expierence would you recomend attempting a repair yourself? Don
That depends upon how adventurous you are.
Read the fiberglass repair books, buy some resin and some glass and play with it on scrap. If you are still comfortable the buy the tools of the trade. Your biggest expense will be the grinder and disks. But if you can follow instruction from a book and tear out your mistakes without getting discouraged then you will be ok. You can buy a yard of cloth and a quart of resin for less then 20 bucks and repair a hole in a piece of plywood for learning purposes. it can be done by a first timer if you will follow the steps and work carefully.
Read the fiberglass repair books, buy some resin and some glass and play with it on scrap. If you are still comfortable the buy the tools of the trade. Your biggest expense will be the grinder and disks. But if you can follow instruction from a book and tear out your mistakes without getting discouraged then you will be ok. You can buy a yard of cloth and a quart of resin for less then 20 bucks and repair a hole in a piece of plywood for learning purposes. it can be done by a first timer if you will follow the steps and work carefully.
What would you pay to get it done?
What would you pay if you were sending it to a yard and how long would it take? Don
What would you pay if you were sending it to a yard and how long would it take? Don
I would stay...
Away from general polyester resin in that location, the mooring bit, and instead use an epoxy resin. Polyester resin has very poor secondary binding characteristics and epoxy is MUCH stronger as a repair resin. Either West System, MAS or System Three are all very good and they all have great technical manuals that will walk you through it.. Fiberglass work is not rocket science but you do need to study up on techniques.. It's not hard. The hardest part will be the cosmetic repairs not the structural.. Welcome to boat ownership! ;D
Away from general polyester resin in that location, the mooring bit, and instead use an epoxy resin. Polyester resin has very poor secondary binding characteristics and epoxy is MUCH stronger as a repair resin. Either West System, MAS or System Three are all very good and they all have great technical manuals that will walk you through it.. Fiberglass work is not rocket science but you do need to study up on techniques.. It's not hard. The hardest part will be the cosmetic repairs not the structural.. Welcome to boat ownership! ;D
How about moving the bitt back a couple of inches
onto solid material, it looks farther forward than I have seen on other boats from the picture, add 1/2" ply for backing, then the repair isn't so critical. Of course it wouldn't be hidden by the bitt anymore, so you would have to make it look nice. Tim
onto solid material, it looks farther forward than I have seen on other boats from the picture, add 1/2" ply for backing, then the repair isn't so critical. Of course it wouldn't be hidden by the bitt anymore, so you would have to make it look nice. Tim
Fore Stay in the way....
I can't move it back as you can see in the picture the duck tape is covering the forestay fitting which I am going to rebed. It is very far forward as a trailer sailor I'm not sure it was designed for mooring, I think one of the owners replaced two small cleats with a large brass cleat. I'm planning on backing it with 3/4 inch of oak something like 8 X 8 inches though it tapers a lot as it goes forward. What kind of fiber glass would you use? Like woven mat or?.... Don
I can't move it back as you can see in the picture the duck tape is covering the forestay fitting which I am going to rebed. It is very far forward as a trailer sailor I'm not sure it was designed for mooring, I think one of the owners replaced two small cleats with a large brass cleat. I'm planning on backing it with 3/4 inch of oak something like 8 X 8 inches though it tapers a lot as it goes forward. What kind of fiber glass would you use? Like woven mat or?.... Don
Start by grinding out the old glass.
Don: I would start by grinding out all of the old glass. I don't know why anyone is suprised that there is coring in this area. I don't think that I would try to fix this myself, but you know your capabilities. You may be able to do the fiberglass layup, but the real trick is trying to do the gelcoat repair. If it is done correctly it will look as good as new. If the repair is done correctly it will be stronger than new.
Don: I would start by grinding out all of the old glass. I don't know why anyone is suprised that there is coring in this area. I don't think that I would try to fix this myself, but you know your capabilities. You may be able to do the fiberglass layup, but the real trick is trying to do the gelcoat repair. If it is done correctly it will look as good as new. If the repair is done correctly it will be stronger than new.
Don , I can recommend a couple of book titles and I am sure Mainesail has some o
First and foremost is Alan Vaitsis, Fiberglass boat repair. Then you might try Jack Wiley , Fiberglass Repair and Construction Handbook. I will not try to write a condenced version for you. Get the real books and read. Read about cloth types and resin types, tools and techniques. Read about the pitfalls and the conditions that allow good work and that will ruin a job. You are trying to save several hundred dollars, invest some money and buy an education.
First and foremost is Alan Vaitsis, Fiberglass boat repair. Then you might try Jack Wiley , Fiberglass Repair and Construction Handbook. I will not try to write a condenced version for you. Get the real books and read. Read about cloth types and resin types, tools and techniques. Read about the pitfalls and the conditions that allow good work and that will ruin a job. You are trying to save several hundred dollars, invest some money and buy an education.
Do it yourself
Give it a try and do it yourself. Not only will you gain a lot of knowledge and some new tool toys. You will also get a lot of satisfaction and pride from your repair. And last but not least, you will save yourself several hundred bucks. Labor rates for anything to do with boats is approaching or surpassing 100 bucks an hour almost everywhere.
Give it a try and do it yourself. Not only will you gain a lot of knowledge and some new tool toys. You will also get a lot of satisfaction and pride from your repair. And last but not least, you will save yourself several hundred bucks. Labor rates for anything to do with boats is approaching or surpassing 100 bucks an hour almost everywhere.
How about a pic of the general area,
I am not seeing why the bitt has to be in front of the forestay, further back could be stronger, use a couple of chocks to guide the anchor line, it would be safer for the crew as well, but maybe I'm missing something
Tim
I am not seeing why the bitt has to be in front of the forestay, further back could be stronger, use a couple of chocks to guide the anchor line, it would be safer for the crew as well, but maybe I'm missing something
Tim
Tim if the bitt is aft of the fore stay then as the boat swings
the stay will interfere with the secured line. There is no reason that the existing site can not be made stronger than it ever was and it will then serve this owner and the next several for years to come. Edited for usage.
the stay will interfere with the secured line. There is no reason that the existing site can not be made stronger than it ever was and it will then serve this owner and the next several for years to come. Edited for usage.
- Status