What would you do???

[HukilauMike]

After coming back from a very brief evening sail last night (no wind at all), I noticed that a couple of guys were at the dock working on an Oday 22 they had just bought. The guys asked me "we can make it to Block Island in one day if we leave early, right?" I explained that Block Island is about 70 miles by boat from Branford, that their boat would be very fortunate to average 5 knots, which means that theoretically, it could be about a 14 hour sail. When I explained to them that there was no way that they should depend on making that speed (tacking, wind strength, tides), and that they should plan on making it at least a two or three day trip, they were more than surprised. "What about the engine, Dude (they were in college), can't we just use that?" They did have a new outboard, but when I pointed out that it only had a three gallon tank (they didn't know), they asked if I thought they should get a bigger tank. I also had to show them how to tighten the shrouds and stays, set up their main and jibsheets and how to hank on the jib. One of them said he had sailing experience, but on "big boats, this one seems dinky to me". How about Newport, they asked, is that closer? In short, they had no idea where they were going, what they were in for (I mentioned 5 foot seas and they just looked at each other and laughed) or it seemed, how to sail. They said they had to leave the next day as the marina had only launched the boat for them, not rented them a slip or mooring. I did try and convince them to take more time and plan their voyage better, and seemed to convince them that they needed at least a chart, water, and food (they did have a VHF). I then wished them good luck and went home.As I related this story to the Admiral at home, I thought of a zillion other things that I could have told them. Naturally, I began to feel that I should have done more to help or try and stop them from putting themselves into unreasonable danger. What would you have done?

 

[Andre K. 1991 Hunter 30]

you did your best - I think....

You have worned them , and told them what they need and what they should do for sucha trip ---as much as we want to, sometimes, we cant save the world, or save every potential psycho from killing themselves... Those two may just be lucky and make it, but there are milions of others out there that will do a similar thing and may not be as fortunate... and you can't save them either...Life is the toughest teacher and some lessons are better learned by if you experience them yourselve....

 

[Dream Chaser]

Natural Selection

Natural Selection has a way of weeding out the less intelligent of our species. Check out the 'Darwin Awards' series of books for many stories of how individuals have improved the gene pool of the human race by removing themselves from it.

 

[Dick Westwood]

Irresponsibility

Another problem is that these guys are a hazard to the rest of us (well, not me, I don't sail Branford). Obviously, they don't know things like who has the right of way, so we'll be standing on and they'll be doing who knows what. Or, more likely, they'll need to be rescued, and that's always a hazardous situation for all involved. Although we're not all experts, nobody should be out on the water without knowing the basics. So I'd encourage them to get some lessons from a sailing school.Dick

 

[liam]

only skin deep

Beauty is only skin deep, but stupid goes all the way to the bone!There really isn't anything that anyone can do for people like this except stay out of their way.You tried. You did what was reasonable. You cannot be responsable for them. They probably won't die. They certianly won't have much fun. They will either learn real fast or move on to something that is less of a threat like drag racing in residential neighborhoods.

 

[JohnS12875]

You can't save those who won't be saved

I've heard very similar stories from whitewater kayakers. An experienced kayaker comes upon some ill-equipped/ill-informed yahoo who saw a Mountain Dew commercial and thought "Wow! that looks like fun!", and is preparing to launch into a Class IV rapid on an inner tube with no helmet or lifejacket. The experienced kayaker explains all the dangers of entrapments/strainers/holes/sharp-pointy-rocks/hypothermia/etc. Usually, the yahoo decides to try it anyhows and quickly has the crap scared out of him and ends up walking back to his car. Occasionally, unfortunately, we end up reading about them in the paper. Less often, (or maybe I just haven't heard about these cases) the yahoo says "Hmmm, maybe I need to re-think this."Either way, all you can do is tell them that as someone with a lot more experience/knowledge than them, you can plainly see that if they continue there's a very good chance that they will get into serious trouble, and maybe even die due to their lack of knowledge and preparedness. Which sounds to me like you did.I suppose you could have told them that if the authorities have to rescue them, and they're found to have set-off w/o proper preparation, they may face thousands in fines and some prison time. (They probably aren't knowledgeable enough to know if that's true or not.)

 

[Rick Webb]

Two Sayings Come to Mind

There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are no old bold pilots.AndGod has a special place in his heart and watches out for women, children and imbeciles.Oh, and a third somthing about being without sin and casting the first stone. I bet we all have done stupid things especially when younger.What I have found that gets the point across in these sort of situations is to pull out a pad and a pen ask them to right down their mothers name, address and phone number followed by an apology for doing somthing so stupid as to get themselves killed needlessly. I promise to deliver it after they turn themselves into a smoking hole. They stop for a minute and think. Usually that is all it takes, a minute to think.

 

[p323ms]

A steep learning curve

They will probably have a good time and have a steep learning curve. Survival instincts kick in when needed. People do stupid stuff all of the time and usually survive. Even completely unprepared they are probably safer out in a boat than driving around on our streets. Sure stuff can go wrong in a 22' boat going 5 kts. But things can really go wrong driving down the road at 70+mph. Looking at statistics sailing is safer than walking!!!!! A good number of people get killed while walking. At full speed maybe 6kts you could run a 22' boat directly into a seawall and probably no one would be seriously hurt. Tom

 

[abe]

Notify the local Coast Guard about your concern..

maybe they can do a safety check.abe

 

[Peter J. Brennan]

Don't worry

They will do fine and learn a lot in the doing. Twenty two feet is plenty big enough to survive most things on the Sound even if they do end up being towed. Perhaps they too some of what you said to heart and will remember more of it later when they need to.We have a friend who had a Macgregor 22 and set out to circumnavigate Long Island. Alone. Thought it would take him about eight days. But what with fickle winds, dead engine, surf, groundings, loss of dinghy, etc., it took him nearly a month. Both he and boat survived, he much tghe wiser. Now he has a 30-footer and is a very good and prudent sailor.

 

[Craig522]

Good on you for trying

If they do have a mishap they my realize how lucky they were to bump into you. A lot of people would have just shaken their heads and walked away, rather than making the considerable effort to educate them.This brings to mind a situation where some friends and I were climbing in the Canadian Rockies. We were on a glacier with heavy boots, packs, high tech outerwear, crampons, ice axes, harnesses and tied together with ropes to save us from falling into one of the many thinly snow-covered crevasses (gapping holes in the glacier, some several hundred feet deep, where you can fall and break a limb or get killed). We heard "yeeehaaaa" and looked up to see 3 guys in blue jeans, sneakers, and T-shirts come RUNNING down the slope, without a rope, or a care in the world. It was surreal! What made it worse was the dark clouds threatening a blizzard within the next couple hours, and they were at least 3 hours from any civilization! (we had tents).But like Rick said, I've done more than my fair share of stupid things, and somehow survived.

 

[John Nantz]

Really Great Replies!

Really enjoyed reading all these replies - they were really good!Okay, how about another saying from dad: "God helps those who helps themselves."On the other hand, have you ever noticed how in a two-car accident it's the drunk that escapes with a few minor injuries where as the innocent person who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time is the one who gets creamed?In this case they will probably use the VHF to call the Coast Guard who will then expend lots of assets to rescue them and probably at our expense because they won't have any money!I like the idea of contacting the Coast Guard and at least giving them a heads-up of what you encountered.Some people here seem a little surprised but for several years I worked as a "Safety Officer", you know, other duties as assigned, and you just wouldn't believe what people do. Even at work and even with job safety training. Most people never hear anyting much outside their co-workers and friends but once you see the statistics and the detailed information behind them you'd be really surprised. It was certainly a real eye-opener for me. If your employer ever askes for volunteers for a Safety Officer job really think strongly about going for it because I'm sure it would be a good experience. It really turned my life around.Really entertaining posts here!By the way, I won't mention about my trip from Point Judith to Block Island in late September with a 16-ft Falcon daysailer. This was BEFORE the Safety Officer job!

 

[Garry @ S/V TASHTEGO]

Experience

1. I agree with Abe, give the coasties a heads up.2. Another saying Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.

 

[Bob]

I am going to Tahiti!

When I was cruising the ICW years ago I pulled into the Titusville, Fla marina for a few days stop. Next to me at the transient dock was an old Herresoff H-28, rather used, but beautiful. The very young guy in his 20's who I engaged in conversation about his vessel told me he was leaving in the morning for Tahiti! Tahiti? I said. Really? He had no motor, no radio, carried a solar distillation unit and a 50 pound bag of rice onboard with a sterno cooker. I was but an ICW cruiser who knew nothing of blue water sailing let alone a Panama canal transit and south seas sailing! I sat and sort of admired this kid as he sailed off from the dock the next day. Was he mad? Was his head swelled with Thor Hyerdahl adventure stories? Should I have questioned his sailing capabilities or boating knowledge? Did he ever Should I have run to the dockmaster and had him restrained? When we were younger we were more headstrong, cocky and confident and yet just about all of us survived our test of manhood sometime or another. For me it was Vietnam. In retrospect, this was the kind of individual who had to be admired much less to pity. Your coaching was worthy and concerns certainly warranted. At least you tried to steer them on a good course. I just sat their and pondered what it would be like to just leave the dock and sail toward Tahiti. I wonder if he ever made it.......Bob

 

[Rob Schofield]

A Newbie weighs in . . .

I am a new sailboat owner with about 3 weeks experience, but also a pirate just turned 39 so I'm a just few years removed from college. On Friday, my wife, very young daughter and I set sail in <5 knot winds at sunset. We basically floated into the Lake Erie sunset and watched ther stars rise topside as my daughter went to sleep below. Suddenly, like a light-switch, the wind kicked to 20+ knots (not forecasted). The boat heeled over and flew with just the main hoisted. A fine time to experience my first real wind; my daughter rolled out of her bunk and cried. It was all I could do to hold the tiller and lean back with the wind at close-haul; but the wind forced me to turn back into a full run (note: many of these terms I've learned after the fact). I couldn't believe I couldn't hold a fairly straight line no matter what I did with the tiller. On the run back, I was just getting comfortable with my adrenoline when a flood light from some unknown boat started bearing down on me fast; it took me about a minute to conclude this had to be the Coast Guard and not just some power boat headed back to port. I couldn't hear them over the din until their loudspeaker announced I needed navigation lights (they were working earlier but the battery had died - Murphy was a sailor). They "escorted" me in, destroying my night vision in the process; ironically I wasn't nervous until they showed up (I hate learning anything with an audience). Eventually, they pulled off when we got near the harbor entrance (it helped that it finally occured to me to start the motor to charge the battery and slowly regain lights). We live to sail again.

 

[tom b.]

I agree with you doin your best.....

seems all they had on their mind was they had to move the boat. You can lead a horse to water... yada yada yada...hopefully they made it okay..and you did what you could do..alot of people wouldn't even have done as much as you did..so..Hopefully it will make a good sailing story for the both of them...

 

[p323ms]

Mind your own business

It is always interesting when people have nothing better to do than mind other people's business!!!! It is so irritating to have busy bodies always looking over your shoulder. I remember having a pilot always lecturing me on flying safety. He flew about 3-5 hours a year!!! I was flying about 10 hours+ a month. But he had been flying for 20 years and felt like the expert to lecture me on flying safety even though I had more hours flying than he.There are always wise people standing around with nothing better to do than tell others how to live their lives. Some would have us study sailing for 5 years before we could walk onto a boat.Then maybe two more years before leaving the dock. Oh and maybe sink the boat with all of the required equipment....

 

[Herb Parsons]

Minding your P's

p323ms,There's actually a couple of reasons I would disagree with you in this case. First of all (and primarily), Mike said they ASKED him if they could make it to Block Island in a day." Secondaly, sailing is different than flying (and many other sports activities) in that in sailing, if we see a person having a problem, we are required by law to help them. So, it IS our business.Now, I don't mean that we should be the nosey lady next door, and complaing about every little thing, but I don't see anything wrong with offering some pointers when appropriate.

 

[p323ms]

Herb I am all for being helpful

But some have made suggestions that you should report someone to the coast guard because you don't think that they are good sailers seems extreme. We must keep in mind that sailing is one of the safest pastimes possible. Far safer than taking a walk in your neighborhood. I am always willing to help a fellow sailer(even a stinkpotter) if they want help. But part of the joy in a new activity is the sense of discovery. Nothing kills the sense of acomphlishment more quickly than a know it all busy body. I admit to sometimes wanting to mind other people's business. A couple with two small boys that can't swim were letting the children run around the dock and their boat without life jackets. When I suggested PFD's the mother let me know in no uncertain terms that she was able to care for her children without a strangers advice. Surprisingly the children have survived all summer without my expert advice. BUT my grandson wears a PFD when he is on the dock. I think the couple were more concerned about a 9' alligator that hung around for a few days early in June.Tom

 

[Herb Parsons]

In Agreement

I think we're probably in agreement overall. I personally felt the "call the coast guard" thing was overkill too. If most of us had heard all the advice we should have heard before we started sailing, we probably wouldn't have started. There is something to be said about the "just do it" attitude, to a degree. I kinda liked the "I'm going to Tahiti" example. Sometimes, things can be overplanned just like they can be underplanned. Unfortunately, the ramifications of underplanning are just worse.Somehow, we older folks managed to survive childhood in spite of climbing tall trees, not wearing bicycle helmets, wandering miles from home with no escort, and swimming after eating without waiting for an hour. Some mistakes are OK to make. I suspect had those guys headed out, the worse lesson they would have learned was that it takes much longer to get someplace in a sailboat than most people think. That's a good lesson. They would have probably picked up another pointer or two along the way.