I was scheduled to help a friend pick up his brand new 35', 2003 XXXXX brand(I've left out the manufacturer, because it doesn't make any difference) sailboat from the dealer. We planned to pick it up where the dealer did their deliveries and sail it to it's new home 12 miles away. Monday I got an e-mail from him, part of which I've included in this e-mail. "...we demasted in 12kts of wind on the test sail. The lower shroud flange appears to have failed leaving the middle of the mast unsupported on the windward side. This caused the mast to buckle at that point. The mast then came out of the boot on the deck with the whole rig eventually landing in the water to leeward. They're hauling the mast out of the water today and motoring the boat over to a boatyard to have it hauled. I'll know more in the days to come, but I don't expect to take delivery until..." My question is, what you would do in this situation? Would you accept this boat for delivery in a month or so after they've made repairs? Would you reject this particular boat and continue to look for the same boat from a different dealer or a different make from the same dealer? Perhaps it's time to reconsider other makes? Would you pay full price for the repaired boat? Do you feel the dealer or the manufacturer owe him any compensation? Being new to boating, I'm curious how others would handle this situation. What would you do?
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Capt'n Bob
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Bill Doyle - S/V Calico Dragon
No Way ...
would I accept that boat. Just like I wouldn't accept a car the dealer ran into a wall while bringing it from the back lot. We're not talking about a small leak from a poorly sealed hatch. Unless there's some reason to think the root cause is chronic, then I'd go for the same model but not that particular boat. Bill
would I accept that boat. Just like I wouldn't accept a car the dealer ran into a wall while bringing it from the back lot. We're not talking about a small leak from a poorly sealed hatch. Unless there's some reason to think the root cause is chronic, then I'd go for the same model but not that particular boat. Bill
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Peggie Hall/HeadMistress
What I'd do....
Investigate whether this is an isolated case or common weakness in that boat and what other weaknesses it's likely to have. Really GOOD surveyors will know...they network and publish to each other. If it's a common problem and the boat has other known weaknesses, cancel the deal and find a better built boat. If it's an isolated case, hire a really good surveyor and insist that repairs be made to HIS (or her) satisfaction or the deal is off. That's the only way you'll ever be sure that the repairs are done right and not just with "chewing gum, bailing wire" and enough cosmetics to hide that that's all they did. If done properly, though, Bob is right...you'll end up with a better boat than it was when it left the factory.
Investigate whether this is an isolated case or common weakness in that boat and what other weaknesses it's likely to have. Really GOOD surveyors will know...they network and publish to each other. If it's a common problem and the boat has other known weaknesses, cancel the deal and find a better built boat. If it's an isolated case, hire a really good surveyor and insist that repairs be made to HIS (or her) satisfaction or the deal is off. That's the only way you'll ever be sure that the repairs are done right and not just with "chewing gum, bailing wire" and enough cosmetics to hide that that's all they did. If done properly, though, Bob is right...you'll end up with a better boat than it was when it left the factory.
Rig failure was probably a commissioning error.
Glenn: Chances are that the rig failed because it was improperly rigged during commissioning. Your friend should demand a complete replacement of the entire rig and have the dealer pay for a new boat survey prior to accepting delivery of the boat. The surveyor should be picked by your friend.
Glenn: Chances are that the rig failed because it was improperly rigged during commissioning. Your friend should demand a complete replacement of the entire rig and have the dealer pay for a new boat survey prior to accepting delivery of the boat. The surveyor should be picked by your friend.
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Matt Wolf
Survey
I agree with Steve D. Make sure it is surveyed at the dealer's expense. If the boat is financed, I would also request that the dealer pay the loan while it's in for repair. Who wants to dish out $100K for a new toy and not get to play with it right away? If they don't offer to pay the note while it's in repair, go after some nice aftermarket items such as a Dodger or Bimini.
I agree with Steve D. Make sure it is surveyed at the dealer's expense. If the boat is financed, I would also request that the dealer pay the loan while it's in for repair. Who wants to dish out $100K for a new toy and not get to play with it right away? If they don't offer to pay the note while it's in repair, go after some nice aftermarket items such as a Dodger or Bimini.
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David
Glenn
Peggie and Capt. Bob have given you the best advice. Your friend should also have a damage claim survey done before anyone touches the boat. That should provide him with the real cause of the failure.
Peggie and Capt. Bob have given you the best advice. Your friend should also have a damage claim survey done before anyone touches the boat. That should provide him with the real cause of the failure.
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Peggie Hall/HeadMistress
The buyer should hire the surveyor
I agree that the dealer should be the one to ultimately pay the cost for a surveyor, but shouldn't be the one who contracts with the surveyor because surveyors work for the people who hire 'em. So that should be the person who's gonna end up with this boat, not the dealer who may only want to do enough to close the deal. Plus, if the dealer hires the surveyor, there's no guarantee he'll hire the best--which is what is definitely needed in this case. The buyer and the dealer can agree that the cost of the surveyor will be subtracted from the down payment or some other form of reimbursement, but as far the surveyor is concerned, it's the buyer who's paying his bill.
I agree that the dealer should be the one to ultimately pay the cost for a surveyor, but shouldn't be the one who contracts with the surveyor because surveyors work for the people who hire 'em. So that should be the person who's gonna end up with this boat, not the dealer who may only want to do enough to close the deal. Plus, if the dealer hires the surveyor, there's no guarantee he'll hire the best--which is what is definitely needed in this case. The buyer and the dealer can agree that the cost of the surveyor will be subtracted from the down payment or some other form of reimbursement, but as far the surveyor is concerned, it's the buyer who's paying his bill.
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Larry W.
what I would do
I'd walk away from the dealer. If they're sloppy enough to make a mistake like that, who knows what else they've done with installations of aftermarket equipment; inverters, instruments, etc. I'd be very suspicious of the builder, too. Why would they continue to license that dealer, since I'm sure they've done things like that in the past. Ask around about that builder and dealer, you might uncover some things they'd rather keep under wraps.
I'd walk away from the dealer. If they're sloppy enough to make a mistake like that, who knows what else they've done with installations of aftermarket equipment; inverters, instruments, etc. I'd be very suspicious of the builder, too. Why would they continue to license that dealer, since I'm sure they've done things like that in the past. Ask around about that builder and dealer, you might uncover some things they'd rather keep under wraps.
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David
Larry
Do we know it was the dealer's fault? Steve mentioned it was a commissioning error but is that really the case?
Do we know it was the dealer's fault? Steve mentioned it was a commissioning error but is that really the case?
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Peggie Hall/HeadMistress
Whyizzit that...
Some people insist on 100% perfection all the time from everyone BUT themselves? Let somebody else screw up once...dump 'em! Or would you have us believe that neither you nor anyone working for you has EVER screwed up anything in your own entire career? Or that YOU should have been fired immediately for any mistakes you made? You don't even know whether the problem IS the dealer's fault or a mfrg defect...all any of us have is speculation. But you're ready to crucify him anyway! The mark of whether this dealer is a good one or not ISN'T whether he did anything wrong...but how committed he is to making it right, whether it's his fault or not.
Some people insist on 100% perfection all the time from everyone BUT themselves? Let somebody else screw up once...dump 'em! Or would you have us believe that neither you nor anyone working for you has EVER screwed up anything in your own entire career? Or that YOU should have been fired immediately for any mistakes you made? You don't even know whether the problem IS the dealer's fault or a mfrg defect...all any of us have is speculation. But you're ready to crucify him anyway! The mark of whether this dealer is a good one or not ISN'T whether he did anything wrong...but how committed he is to making it right, whether it's his fault or not.
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Jeff D
I'm suprised
Unless I missed something in the responses, I would go direct to the MANUFACTURER. I would insist, at a minimum, upon them coming to look at the boat in person, provide a written solution to the problem including a total replacement of all standing rigging, mast, mast step and sails. I addition, I would also demand that an extended warranty be issued by the factory for future issues which may develope around the mast step, above and belowe deck. I would also insist that they provide any payments while the boat is under repair. I would also demand that they provide any knowledge of other instances of this sort in the past or in the future. As idicated in earlier posts, I would also ask that they pay for a surveyor, of my choosing, prior to and following any repair. If they balk at any of these demands, I would not accept the boat. I would also seek some further discount on the boat since I would be obligated to reveal this incident if I were to sell the boat. Otherwise, off to court.
Unless I missed something in the responses, I would go direct to the MANUFACTURER. I would insist, at a minimum, upon them coming to look at the boat in person, provide a written solution to the problem including a total replacement of all standing rigging, mast, mast step and sails. I addition, I would also demand that an extended warranty be issued by the factory for future issues which may develope around the mast step, above and belowe deck. I would also insist that they provide any payments while the boat is under repair. I would also demand that they provide any knowledge of other instances of this sort in the past or in the future. As idicated in earlier posts, I would also ask that they pay for a surveyor, of my choosing, prior to and following any repair. If they balk at any of these demands, I would not accept the boat. I would also seek some further discount on the boat since I would be obligated to reveal this incident if I were to sell the boat. Otherwise, off to court.
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Justin - O'day Owners' Web
I think Steve is closest
I agree with having the manufacturer come to the site and look at the boat before ANY work gets done on it. I would also have an independent survey beformed to determine the cause. Since the boat failed in shake down then the contract is probably not fully performed - marketable goods not delivered. So I'd ask the manufacturer for an extended warranty on the repaired rig etc. If the work is done right there is not cost to anyone for the warranty. If the work is done poorly the owner is covered and manufacturer and dealer can fight over whose problem it is. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
I agree with having the manufacturer come to the site and look at the boat before ANY work gets done on it. I would also have an independent survey beformed to determine the cause. Since the boat failed in shake down then the contract is probably not fully performed - marketable goods not delivered. So I'd ask the manufacturer for an extended warranty on the repaired rig etc. If the work is done right there is not cost to anyone for the warranty. If the work is done poorly the owner is covered and manufacturer and dealer can fight over whose problem it is. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
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