THANKS TO ALL THE INPUT ON MY 11/12 QUESTION ON WHAT BOAT TO BUY (ANY SUGESTIONS FOR A 30 FT /15,000 +) Have sail my 14ft C-Lark sence 1970 on lakes and even down to Clumbia/(and Oceanside Ca. (while we lived on the Pala Indian Reservation-we are missionaries to Native Americans) NOW THAT IT LOOKS WE ARE RELOCATING TO PUDGET SOUND-WA; and hoping to get a 28-30f- WHAT DO I NEED TO KNOW /BOOKS TO STUDY/ ETC. TO BE ABLE TO SAIL IN THIS PROTECTED OCEAN AREA -Want to do my studing this winter befor the move up their Thanks!!! Gordon Shadburne,Ex.Dir. Warriors for Christ www.warriorsforchristonline.org
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Two elements make PS tough
Currents/tides, and navigation. Unlike our friends in warmer waters, up here you can't tell _anything_ by the look of the water. The color is the same whether you're in 5 feet or 50 feet. So, navbigations skills become pretty important. Seat of the pants navigation, until you know the area, will get you aground in no time. (Fortunately, aground is simply stuck in the mnud, most places.) You'll also need to learn about tide tables and currents. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time can find one under full sail with 5 kts showing on the knotmeter, but making _negative_ headway. Been there, done that.
Tides also make anchoring a bit more complex. That said, these skills are easily learned and thousands of folks of all skill levels cruise up here without incident. But you will need a bit more knowledge than is required for lake sailing. You'll really like it up here -- good luck with your move!
Currents/tides, and navigation. Unlike our friends in warmer waters, up here you can't tell _anything_ by the look of the water. The color is the same whether you're in 5 feet or 50 feet. So, navbigations skills become pretty important. Seat of the pants navigation, until you know the area, will get you aground in no time. (Fortunately, aground is simply stuck in the mnud, most places.) You'll also need to learn about tide tables and currents. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time can find one under full sail with 5 kts showing on the knotmeter, but making _negative_ headway. Been there, done that.
Tides also make anchoring a bit more complex. That said, these skills are easily learned and thousands of folks of all skill levels cruise up here without incident. But you will need a bit more knowledge than is required for lake sailing. You'll really like it up here -- good luck with your move!Tide and Current
Here's a couple of suggestions for sailing around Puget Sound: Study up on how to use the tide and current tables. Our tides can be rather dramatic - swinging as much as 13 feet during a cycle. That can make that nice little inlet a mudhole in the course of 6 hours. Learning how to use the current tables will help you to plan passages that take advantage of all that water flowing in and out of our beautiful area. Get yourself a copy of "Gunkholing in South Puget Sound" - it does a wonderful job of describing just about anywhere you might want to boat in the inner Puget Sound area. Subscribe to 48degrees north - our local sailing magazine - or if you are in the area, pick one up free each month at most marine businesses. See link below. Stop in at a local West Marine (or other marine store) and buy an offical set of charts for Puget Sound. They come in two different volumes (basically Edmonds South to Olympia chart # 18445, and then North to Bellingham chart # 18423) and cost something like $20 each. Great investment and you'll need them to be safe and legal. Good Luck - Puget Sound is a great place for year round sailing and enjoying. Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
Here's a couple of suggestions for sailing around Puget Sound: Study up on how to use the tide and current tables. Our tides can be rather dramatic - swinging as much as 13 feet during a cycle. That can make that nice little inlet a mudhole in the course of 6 hours. Learning how to use the current tables will help you to plan passages that take advantage of all that water flowing in and out of our beautiful area. Get yourself a copy of "Gunkholing in South Puget Sound" - it does a wonderful job of describing just about anywhere you might want to boat in the inner Puget Sound area. Subscribe to 48degrees north - our local sailing magazine - or if you are in the area, pick one up free each month at most marine businesses. See link below. Stop in at a local West Marine (or other marine store) and buy an offical set of charts for Puget Sound. They come in two different volumes (basically Edmonds South to Olympia chart # 18445, and then North to Bellingham chart # 18423) and cost something like $20 each. Great investment and you'll need them to be safe and legal. Good Luck - Puget Sound is a great place for year round sailing and enjoying. Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
A just a bit further north
Are some equally beautiful cruising grounds, the Canadian Gulf Islands. Same chilly water although some places are quite tolerable, same tides, same currents, same stuff to run into. As has been said, charts, tide table and a current atlas are essential. I have a GPS but don't use it much for nav as we ded reckon 90% of the time, good set of binos and a hand bearing compass combined with a knotmeter will do just nicely! Enjoy your move! David
Are some equally beautiful cruising grounds, the Canadian Gulf Islands. Same chilly water although some places are quite tolerable, same tides, same currents, same stuff to run into. As has been said, charts, tide table and a current atlas are essential. I have a GPS but don't use it much for nav as we ded reckon 90% of the time, good set of binos and a hand bearing compass combined with a knotmeter will do just nicely! Enjoy your move! David
So what are people using for tidal current
charts? I was using the Capt's system, then lost the almanac ( the permanent chart) and last I checked it was not being published. Any sofware out there for Puget Sound currents that will run on a PC? Oh, and Gordon, come on up the water is fine.
charts? I was using the Capt's system, then lost the almanac ( the permanent chart) and last I checked it was not being published. Any sofware out there for Puget Sound currents that will run on a PC? Oh, and Gordon, come on up the water is fine.
Navigation and tides/currents
Scott - An easy to use booklet with intersting local knowledge of weather and star patterns is Captn Jack's Almanac, published annually - see related link below (sold at most local chandleries). I've always used this book combined with the NOAA tide/current tables for both BC and Puget Sound, along with paper charts. Recently I began using Nobeltec's Visual Navigation Suite on my laptop on the boat - it has built in current arrows with animation! Pretty neat stuff, but I still rely on the paper. Best, Trevor
Scott - An easy to use booklet with intersting local knowledge of weather and star patterns is Captn Jack's Almanac, published annually - see related link below (sold at most local chandleries). I've always used this book combined with the NOAA tide/current tables for both BC and Puget Sound, along with paper charts. Recently I began using Nobeltec's Visual Navigation Suite on my laptop on the boat - it has built in current arrows with animation! Pretty neat stuff, but I still rely on the paper. Best, Trevor
Trevor, perfect,
Exactly what I needed LAST summer. I won't make that mistake again,,,And Terry,,,I'll get you for that! Actually, and I've said it before here, I'm a fair weather sailor on flat water. I've had it with the macho stuff. :{
Exactly what I needed LAST summer. I won't make that mistake again,,,And Terry,,,I'll get you for that! Actually, and I've said it before here, I'm a fair weather sailor on flat water. I've had it with the macho stuff. :{
Trevor, now for the bad news.
After I found it back ordered at Fisheries, I called Capn's at their 800#. The current book with the arrows is out of print and unavailable. No reprints are planed, period. They recommended I go here; http://www.nobeltec.com/products/prod_eplanner.asp These guys have a $9.95 program that does the same thing and a lot more on a PC.
After I found it back ordered at Fisheries, I called Capn's at their 800#. The current book with the arrows is out of print and unavailable. No reprints are planed, period. They recommended I go here; http://www.nobeltec.com/products/prod_eplanner.asp These guys have a $9.95 program that does the same thing and a lot more on a PC.
Swimming is possible
in Birch Bay. It gets to 65 - 70 degrees in the summer. Very shallow water and no current is the reason. Not a good anchorage for bigger sailboats in the actual bay due to the depth and geography. I regularly swim off of my boat in the summer. I am in a private marina though. Go north to eastern Desolation Sound and there is more warm salt water there in the summer. If you have the time and opportunity, Desolation Sound is the best! Currents are very important but even more so when you get to that area. You did not say what area you are moving to. The best current guide I have found for the north part of the sound is the Canadian current guide. I forget exactly what it is called but you get a book of charts and then a yearly published table to look up which page to refer to. Murrays tables and there is another one too that uses the same book. Great for the San Juans and Canadian waters. With a 28 foot boat, watching the currents will make a huge difference in travel times and navigating accurately.
in Birch Bay. It gets to 65 - 70 degrees in the summer. Very shallow water and no current is the reason. Not a good anchorage for bigger sailboats in the actual bay due to the depth and geography. I regularly swim off of my boat in the summer. I am in a private marina though. Go north to eastern Desolation Sound and there is more warm salt water there in the summer. If you have the time and opportunity, Desolation Sound is the best! Currents are very important but even more so when you get to that area. You did not say what area you are moving to. The best current guide I have found for the north part of the sound is the Canadian current guide. I forget exactly what it is called but you get a book of charts and then a yearly published table to look up which page to refer to. Murrays tables and there is another one too that uses the same book. Great for the San Juans and Canadian waters. With a 28 foot boat, watching the currents will make a huge difference in travel times and navigating accurately.
Fred, thats my experience
I loved the Capt Jack's system. Then in 2003 I bought the annual publication and couldn't find the perpetual publication (Atlas) on the boat. Went back to the store and no Atlas. Called Capt Jack and they said wait a few months/years to see if they publish again. Weird, since everyone says they still suport the annual publication. So Trevor, does your Nobeltec software on a PC with a GPS hooked up, put your boat on the chart and show the tidal current predictions with arrows in real time? What do you do if your want to know what is going on at 10:00 a.m. tomorrow in Agate Pass (using the software)? Does it show the back eddies or just the main channel current flow?
I loved the Capt Jack's system. Then in 2003 I bought the annual publication and couldn't find the perpetual publication (Atlas) on the boat. Went back to the store and no Atlas. Called Capt Jack and they said wait a few months/years to see if they publish again. Weird, since everyone says they still suport the annual publication. So Trevor, does your Nobeltec software on a PC with a GPS hooked up, put your boat on the chart and show the tidal current predictions with arrows in real time? What do you do if your want to know what is going on at 10:00 a.m. tomorrow in Agate Pass (using the software)? Does it show the back eddies or just the main channel current flow?
Learn to..........................
Read and understand tidal flow charts, navigating in the fog, read the charts carefully and have fun. Couple books for newbies "Gunkholing in San Juans" and "Cruising San Juan and Gulf Islands". ANd most importantly learn how to catch, clean and eat those great Dungeness Crabs (in season of course).
Read and understand tidal flow charts, navigating in the fog, read the charts carefully and have fun. Couple books for newbies "Gunkholing in San Juans" and "Cruising San Juan and Gulf Islands". ANd most importantly learn how to catch, clean and eat those great Dungeness Crabs (in season of course).
Capn Jacks Atlas
Now you guys are going to have me digging through my library to find the current Atlas! I didn't know it was out of print... maybe I can do some photocopying for you - I'll let you know if I find it. The current arrows on Nobeltec work pretty well, but I don't think they show all the backeddies. A general rule is to stay in the middle if the current is with you and stick close to shore (as close as you dare) when the current is against you. I've kept faster powerboats behind me by serpentining into the most favorable current (I'm sure those guys in the powerboats wonder why I steer all over the place but they can't pass me!). I've got the basics with Nobeltec, but there are tons of useful features I have yet to learn how to use. It sure is a fun toy! Best, Trevor
Now you guys are going to have me digging through my library to find the current Atlas! I didn't know it was out of print... maybe I can do some photocopying for you - I'll let you know if I find it. The current arrows on Nobeltec work pretty well, but I don't think they show all the backeddies. A general rule is to stay in the middle if the current is with you and stick close to shore (as close as you dare) when the current is against you. I've kept faster powerboats behind me by serpentining into the most favorable current (I'm sure those guys in the powerboats wonder why I steer all over the place but they can't pass me!). I've got the basics with Nobeltec, but there are tons of useful features I have yet to learn how to use. It sure is a fun toy! Best, Trevor
After my last post yesterday I drove to my local
WM store and bought the software and installed it. Like their web site says, $9.99 off the shelf. Weird! At WM! I figured it'd be 20 bucks or more. Anyhow, it needs to be registered to install it. The price is cheap because this program is their entry level software and they charge the real cash for the add ons. I played with it a little last night. As far as charting, it just seems crude. It even comes with many large scale charts. I only wanted it for the tide and currents. I have Maptech for the other stuff. Well, the tides and currents are there and work well. Forget about back eddies, you only get the main/primary direction. No current is shown for places like Okeover at Desolation Sound. But it covers all of North America and I was able to get it work out to the summer of '06. And the animation feature is cool. All of the local stations are shown in graphic form. (thermometer bulb style) The disk is sold with "one year free' data. I don't know what that is. I suspect it's the daily weather overlays that can be accessed via the web. But the tides and currents go out forever, probably. Looks OK.
WM store and bought the software and installed it. Like their web site says, $9.99 off the shelf. Weird! At WM! I figured it'd be 20 bucks or more. Anyhow, it needs to be registered to install it. The price is cheap because this program is their entry level software and they charge the real cash for the add ons. I played with it a little last night. As far as charting, it just seems crude. It even comes with many large scale charts. I only wanted it for the tide and currents. I have Maptech for the other stuff. Well, the tides and currents are there and work well. Forget about back eddies, you only get the main/primary direction. No current is shown for places like Okeover at Desolation Sound. But it covers all of North America and I was able to get it work out to the summer of '06. And the animation feature is cool. All of the local stations are shown in graphic form. (thermometer bulb style) The disk is sold with "one year free' data. I don't know what that is. I suspect it's the daily weather overlays that can be accessed via the web. But the tides and currents go out forever, probably. Looks OK.
Fred - does it cover
Gulf Islands as well? I was looking at the Nobeltec site yesterday and figured by the time I added in charts for my area etc etc, might as well buy the Visual Navigator... Or just stick with paper charts, current atlas, hand bearing compass, circa 1995 GPS and knotmeter...
Gulf Islands as well? I was looking at the Nobeltec site yesterday and figured by the time I added in charts for my area etc etc, might as well buy the Visual Navigator... Or just stick with paper charts, current atlas, hand bearing compass, circa 1995 GPS and knotmeter...
I've been playing with it again,,,
Found an Icon and clicked it. The icon says my tides will no longer work in one year from the date of registration. A five year tide subscription is $59.95. Ah, America,,, P.S. Most of these software suicide dates are based on the computers' clock aren't they? Why not keep the computers clock one year back and save getting a new disk? It's not the money, but rather beating the system. OK, it's a guy thing.
Found an Icon and clicked it. The icon says my tides will no longer work in one year from the date of registration.
A five year tide subscription is $59.95. Ah, America,,, P.S. Most of these software suicide dates are based on the computers' clock aren't they? Why not keep the computers clock one year back and save getting a new disk? It's not the money, but rather beating the system. OK, it's a guy thing.- Status