What to Look for in (Almost) First Sailboat (Used)

EJWash

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Nov 25, 2015
49
Catalina 30 Hoodsport
"bgary" hit it out of the park.

I spend several nights a month in the Bay Area for work. Tired of hoteling it, I started looking for The Right Boat to spend my nights away from home on in the Fall of '15.

I started may search with Craig's List (CL), and Boat Trader. Boat trader quickly proved itself limited. CL, on the other-hand, had many prospects. What I found odd was that some sellers really were;t that interested in selling as much as they were gauging what their boat was worth. A total waste of a buyer's time. With this in mind, I approach subsequent prospects with the first question being, "why are they selling this boat?" I quickly concluded that (at least in my case) most boats that are for sale is because the owner used them less and less, and that bringing them up to a sound usable condition was 1) time/work, and 2) money. You WILL pick-up, maintanance-wise, where the current owner left-off.

I broadened my search from the Bay Area, and looked at a few boats in Newport to San Diego. The Right Boat was a 1989 Catalina 30 MkII. Lightly used, but maintained. Bought by the owners more for the social aspect of boating rather than for cruising. I cannot stress this enough: THE SURVEYOR IS YOUR ADVOCATE! I'll add that you use an experienced sailor/surveyor. Mine was, and I made it clear to him that I wanted to know the exact state of the boat. I wanted him to nit-pick the daylights out of the boat. In the end, I felt informed, and knew well what I was getting into. I bought the boat, and due to an El Nino Winter, I had the boat trucked rather than sailed up the coast.

- stick to your budget. I would NOT spend the top-end of my budget, because there WILL be items that will need to be replaced or tended to maintenance-wise. Although my boat was in great shape when I purchased it, I've put in a couple of grand into it (BOAT = Bring Out Another Thou$and) to replace the running rigging, dock lines, and setting-up the interior to satisfy MY creature comforts. And I'm not done yet. The standing rigging will need replacing next season, and the sails in another two or three. Yes, ongoing replaceable items, but their lifespans were shortened from lack of use.

- Work with a surveyor. Work with a surveyor. Work with a surveyor. There are a LOT of boats out there for sale, and there's a reason that they're for sale. (I looked at a Hunter 34 that I thought was in great shape, until I found out that a sale had fallen through mid-survey.)

It's an exciting time for you! Good luck with your hunt!

EJ
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Goofy . . I am in Winston-Salem anf sail with a group a couple times s year (Spring/Fall) on the NC coast. My Hunter 31 is on Lake Norman Nd if you find yourself over that way, let me know. Our fleet will have several boaters with everything from trailer-able boats (20' classic wooden to 25' Seawards) to a Ketch Rig Shannon out of Oriental, NC. We will be sailing out of Belhaven on May 9th for a week. Let me know if you have interest. Oh, and I strongly recommend retractable or shoal draft for the sounds of NC.
Can others get in on that sail? And if so, for just a day or so? I have a commitment that weekend but would love to do a two day sail with a bunch of other sailors.
 
Apr 15, 2015
36
Hunter 460 So Cal
Goofeyfoot:

I bought my boat nearly a year ago, but had spent nearly three years looking for a boat on the West Coast prior to purchase. We went on board nearly 50 boats total. However, a close friend of mine spent three months looking for a boat in Oriental, NC; bought it in less than a month and moved him and his wife onto it in the summer heat while it was on the hard. This lasted a total of 7 months, now the boat's for sale in Oriental, NC again,,,,after he made major improvements and spent some hard earned cash on it.

I think bgary and EJ WASH are spot on. Take your time with this one unless you want a project boat that your "First Mate" may not jump onto right away. My wife loves the steps on the transom rather than climbing overboard over lifelines, loves the space down below and the fact that it's not close and dark like a cave. However, I would have been fine with that,,,,but we didn't need it and we have a boat that will go most anywhere despite the myths that prevail.

I've take the time to document some of our challenges with buying and fixing our boat on my blog: livefree2sailfast.com

Hope this helps, good luck
 
Apr 15, 2015
36
Hunter 460 So Cal
Goofeyfoot:

While it might not be exactly what you're looking for and doesn't have a retractable keel, good friend of mine has a nice 37 Endeavor for sale in Oriental through Deaton Yacht Sales there. Might be worth a look, it's at your price point but may not fit everything you're looking for-
 

ALNims

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Jul 31, 2014
208
Hunter 356 Huis Ten Bosch Marina, Sasebo, Japan
Prior to buying my boat I attended a boat show (the bigger the better) with my first mate. This allowed us to see a large selection of sizes including options. After making the rounds and getting a feel for what might suit us we then started talking to the dealers who had manufacturers that we were interested in. We told the dealers we were primarily interested in buying a used yacht because it was our first one. Most of the dealers were very helpful. You will find that many of them have used boats in their inventories or know of someone that maybe interested in selling a yacht that meets your expectations and needs. Also our ideas changed on what we expected and needed after we toured the boat show. I think you will find that this method can help save you time and money and point you in the direction of the boat with a lot less effort and frustration when buying a boat on your own. We also found some dealers were better than others if you get my drift. We still scanned ads too but with more confidence because we knew what we wanted and what to look for. Good luck and I would also suggest that you research for a good boat surveyor, pre-approved loan, marina and boat insurance prior to purchasing the boat so that there is no unexpected surprises there too.
 
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Aug 13, 2012
533
Catalina 270 Ottawa
One thing that nobody mentioned so far (I think) is the cockpit size vs. cabin. If you want to have a few friends for a sail with you, you need a bigger cockpit and some of even bigger boats have a small(ish) cockpit designed more for ocean passages when somewhat short-handed than for entertaining a few people. But it is a compromise, because for a given length, you loose cabin space as you add cockpit and vice-versa.

And when you decide to buy, make sure that you keep a good portion of your budget as a reserve. There will be additional costs, even if you buy new. A set of new sails, a bimini, a new radio, some new electronics, a chartplotter... The list goes on and on.

Try buying a bot that has all (at least most) of the equipment that you need to have (not necessarily want to). It is usually easier to find a boat with the autohelm or the furler than to add them after the fact. At least, calculate the cost of these additions.

And consider to cost of the upkeep. There will be maintenance costs (or extra labour for you) regardless. But the bigger the boat, the higher those costs. I don't know what the formula is, but it seems that they grow with, at least, the square of the LOA.
 
Oct 15, 2012
2
W.D. Schock Harbor 25 Bellevue
Sorry if this replicates previous thoughts. However, I bought my first boat at 64 & I have a cautionary tale.
I went to the boat Show, fell in love with a new little boat & bought her on the spot - No thought; just bought!

Good news: It has been a 4 year romance that has far exceeded my expectations.

Bad news: Hadn't had her 4 months and I entered my first regatta. Friggen fell in love with racing!! Hence, need to buy another boat.

In the interim, I will be racing her again this season.:)
 
Nov 23, 2015
10
Catalina 30 Stockton Missouri
Hi goofeyfoot. I just re-entered the sailboat world as well. I too am in my sixties. I have sailed many vessels from 12' to my current Catalina 30, (Mk1) 1983. I would suggest that you consider looking in the mid-west for a nice used boat that has spent it's entire life in fresh water. That will reduce the refurbish maintenance costs. Especially of standing rigging. You will find many Catalina 30-34 footers available most well cared for. I of course, favor the Catalina 30 and probably the Mark III (mine is a Mark I ). You can find these for less than $20,000 to 39,000 range. Again the newer, the higher the price (but possibility lower re-fit costs). The Catalina 30 offers all the above mentioned amenities, which I agree are a absolute must. I think you will find mid-west haulers offer reasonable costs to haul your find back to your preferred NC area. The lower boat cost will more than cover the hauling costs. I would offer that the instrument package, which will probably be in excess of 5 years old is less important than the other ancillaries as most older instruments are in need of replacement. The reverse transom with swim platform is a very nice option. Mine does not have that. :( When you do purchase your boat that is the time (unless you can get the seller to provide a current survey) for an official boat survey. This will provide a complete listing of what is right and wrong with your new boat. Pay close attention to the thru-hulls, impellers, valves, and bottom blisters, rudder, prop, shaft, and cutlass baring. That boat survey will also help you when you go to insure your boat. don't be in a hurry. Have fun.
bpratt1152
 
Jun 28, 2014
18
Oday 25 Arkansas
I saw the Craiglist suggestion.
Beware of fraudulent sellers there.
I walked away from a non refundable "deposit" of 2/3 of the sale price several years ago.
The seller, A. Belter, turned out to be a tri-coastal con-man, able to pull the same trick on 2 or more inexperienced buyers for the same boat which he may or may not have ever owned. If you are dealing with an individual off Craig's list you don't know, get a background check before the deposit, and don't be pressured by a price too good to be true. It probably is. There are too many boats to do what I foolishly did.
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,809
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
Buying a used sailboat is the hardiest thing for a person to have to decide with so many
different kinds out there for sure and trying to figure out who is trying to make you think
that the one they say is the best one.
I would say keep it simple and as I was told look at a catalina 30 because there are so many and parts should be easy to find.
Don't worry about all the electronics or bells and extra options because most times they don't work all the time and you can always add things as needed,the most important things
are a good hull and sound boat that has not allowed water to do any real damage.
I was able to buy new but cruise with many friends with older sailboats and they always need some work and non boat lovers will call a boat as a money pit but that does not need be true.
Keep it simple and less means less things going wrong,start out simple and go slow and if
you decide you really like sailing and want more than you can always add more or even sell and buy some thing else.
Too many boaters buy some thing they do more work and less sailing and enjoyment,
life is short try to enjoy it more.
Nick
 
Jul 4, 2011
68
Cal 33 ft. MKII Clayton, N.Y. St. Lawrence Rvr
Hello Mr. Goofyfoot; I do not know if it is possible but if you could find a Cal 33-2 or perhaps a similar Cal you would not go wrong. Although it is not a swing keel or centerboard vessel, the shoal keel on the 33-2 is a best buy as far as I am concerned. I have owned 5 sailboats and sailed or sailed on at least a half dozen more. The boat affords great room, good turn of speed, solid construction and does not look bad either. I have not sailed mine in salt water but it has handled everything Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence River could throw at it. I have owned it since new in 1989 and it has not failed me in sailing the lake in 30+mph winds and stayed at anchor in a freak wind change with gusts to 40mph. A micro burst did shred its Genoa and blew away its BbQ grill top one time along with pushing the hull down to an open porthole and pushing water into the bilge and leaving duckweed on the screen. I am getting a bit grey now too (64) and I do not sail it as close to the edge as I use too, but I am certain my son would when he is aboard. It has served me well and I have no doubt will continue to do so for a good many more years. Check it out.
 
May 24, 2011
81
Marlow Hunter 40 Oriental, NC
Highly recommend that you consider a Hunter 33 as you are looking at alternatives. We had a 2005 model as our first boat and, if we had it to do over, would make the same decision. Roomy, comfortable and easy to sail.
 
Mar 1, 2012
10
Hunter Hunter H34 McKinley Marina
Michael,
I don't respond to these forums often, But I am 63 and at 60 yo and after sailing on Lake Michigan for about 15 years sailing a 26 foot (8.0) S2 which was a great boat, I began my search. I looked at many nice used boats and ended up with a Hunter H34 1985. It is a great value boat. Make sure what ever you buy has a dry deck especially around the chain plates. The nice thing about an H31 or H34 is that is has an A-B rig and it only has a single chain plate penetration. A single stainless rod ties into the boars infrastructure and the rig is never going top pull out. It has a nice diesel and sails very well. I would recommend a H31 since it has been a good amount of time since you sailed. It will sail in blue water and also inland waterways very well. I suggest reading about it, find one that has been painstakingly maintained....that goes with any boat of this type. Good luck to you, on a final note, take your time. it is great to buy a boat with instrumentation, but if it is old stuff, it isn't worth very much.
 
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Apr 8, 2010
1,942
Ericson Yachts Olson 34 28400 Portland OR
I applaud the very well-researched reply by bgary. I agree that he did "hit it out of the park." As I get further into my 70's I am more satisfied than ever that I found an Ericson-built Olson 34, over two decades ago. It is easy to sail and fast under sail or power, and has a full-on cruising interior. Quality construction and design is a Real Good Thing to have. You will fine lots of craft labeled as "racing" or "cruising" boats. These are just words used to herd buyers into or away from deals. Remember, that when entered into a race... Any boat becomes a racing boat. (!)
:)
The passage of the years will take its toll on all systems on a boat, from plumbing to electrical to blocks and clutches. So look first at basic construction quality -- that's what underlies all of the other stuff. Our boat has a thru-bolted inside-overlap hull to deck joint. Ericson's have a joint glassed on the inside with roving. Some well known boats have a weaker "coffee can" joint, which functions just like it sounds.

About surveyors... one of the best (and "toughest" in the NW is a friend of ours and her take on the transaction process is that the seller, the buyer, and the broker all have a vested interest in the deal. The Only party that "speaks for the boat" is the surveyor!
As was suggested above, do your research and take notes. It's a fun learning process. When we were shopping for a "30-ish +" boat to move up to in the 90's, it took us a year and quite a bit of travel time. We wound up with an excellent boat however.

Best of luck to you!
:)

Loren
 
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Feb 4, 2007
1
Nonsuch 30 Westbrook
+1 on the Nonsuch suggestion. Great boat that is well built. The fact they are easy to sail means you will sail it more. It has an active owners association and holds its value. Full disclosure: I may be biased, I've owned one since 2002.

Good luck in the search!
 
Apr 21, 2010
18
Beneteau First 285 Waukegan
Find one that is easy to single hand, and maintain. At least for the first couple years, see how it goes, then move up.
28-30 foot is a good range, and take your time.
 
Jul 21, 2009
48
2 26s Point du chene
Ha. Too funny. Yes, the hairdryer is the most important piece of gear, with sails running a distant second.

On a more serious note, how to you narrow down the field? There is so much stuff out there that all looks good it is hard to select what's worth seeing. I have a link to about half a dozen different models and they all kind of look the same. At least to me.
Are you talking about the boat or the FM?
 
Mar 13, 2014
4
Catalina 320 Gulf Shores Homeport Marina (Lulu's)
Look at the Catalina 320 ... Will keep the Admiral happy
The Catalina 320 may be the perfect couples long weekend cruiser. I'd recommend looking at that as a starting point. If you're into more serious cruising (weeks vs days) I'd look for something larger; say 38 to 40 ft.
 
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Jul 24, 2011
9
Gemini 3000 JAX
I could not add anything to all the great advice about, surveys, price, models, equipment, etc. except and a couple of posts in the forum have mentioned it, look at smaller cats. I have been sailing for 39 years, 38 in monohulls and 1 year in a 1987 Gemini 3000 which we bought last year. Admiral loves it. Had I known, would have swapped out 38 years ago to a cat. She has more interior space than our 376 hunter, more cockpit space, no healing, and at anchor a pleasure. Oh yes, also has 18" of draft. Enough said.
 
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Aug 15, 2013
24
Hunter 31 Baltimore
Welcome back to sailing, Goofeyfoot. Take the sum total of all the responses from previous contributors, and add one more element, not previously mentioned.
LOOKS !
If you are going to truly bond with a boat, it should be "Love at first sight".
I am 64 years old (not far from your age), owned my first sailboat (21') in 1978 when I was 27.
I upgraded to a gently used 1985 Hunter 31 in 1987 in part , because I had seen them on the water and had always found them a thing of beauty (and also met my "must have" criteria). Decent cabin space, inboard diesel, wheel steering, and high-aspect ratio masthead rig. Being somewhat of a traditionalist, some newer boats do not appeal to me with all the bumps, appendages, and plastic or stainless trim. Teak requires work, but for appearances there is no substitute.
I love her now just as much as I did on the day I first met her.
Do not buy an ugly boat.