I want to buy a trailerable daysailer / weekend cruiser sailboat maximum towing weight of 3500 lbs. (including trailer) new or used and spend no more than approx. 12k . I don't want it to be sluggish and would prefer it to be something that I can teach my children on. The problem is there are so many choices. I don't know if I should look for a boat as old as 1985 or try and buy the newest one I can afford. Are there any newer models I should focus on? Why this choice? Are there any older models I should focus on? How old? Why is this a good choice. I'm not in a hurry to buy however, if a good deal happened to present itself I would make the purchase. Thanks to all in advance. John
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Catalina 22
You are describing a Catalina 22. Mine is a 1986. With trailer it weighs in at 3,500lbs. It has all of the sail controls to learn on and is fun and forgiving. One good thing about the C22 is that the manufacturer is still in business plus there is a great supplier named Catalina Direct so parts are no problem at all. Also there are good support groups such as this web site. There is nothing wrong with an older boat as long as it is in good shape. These fiberglass boats can last a long time. If you are going to trailer frequently I would probably go swing keel. Our boat is kept in the water and for that situation I prefer the performance and no-maintenance of the fixed keel. C22s also have good resale value. I'm sure there are other good choices as well but we are very happy with our C22. Good Luck. Randy
You are describing a Catalina 22. Mine is a 1986. With trailer it weighs in at 3,500lbs. It has all of the sail controls to learn on and is fun and forgiving. One good thing about the C22 is that the manufacturer is still in business plus there is a great supplier named Catalina Direct so parts are no problem at all. Also there are good support groups such as this web site. There is nothing wrong with an older boat as long as it is in good shape. These fiberglass boats can last a long time. If you are going to trailer frequently I would probably go swing keel. Our boat is kept in the water and for that situation I prefer the performance and no-maintenance of the fixed keel. C22s also have good resale value. I'm sure there are other good choices as well but we are very happy with our C22. Good Luck. Randy
I'll sell you my C22
Check the listings on this web site. I have a 1982 that is in real good shape.
Check the listings on this web site. I have a 1982 that is in real good shape.
Mac-25
Look at the Macgregor-25. It isn't as nice as the Cat, but it does have a few advantages, depending on where you plan on sailing. It's light (2500#), almost always comes with a trailer, has a swing keel, and it's easy to sail.
Look at the Macgregor-25. It isn't as nice as the Cat, but it does have a few advantages, depending on where you plan on sailing. It's light (2500#), almost always comes with a trailer, has a swing keel, and it's easy to sail.
Hunter 23 or O'day 23
IIRC, the Hunter 23 is pretty quick. Both are available pretty cheap. The H23s were built from 1985 to 1992. That should answer your question about boat age.
IIRC, the Hunter 23 is pretty quick. Both are available pretty cheap. The H23s were built from 1985 to 1992. That should answer your question about boat age.
Water ballast Hunters 23.5 and 240
You should take a look at the 23.5 and 240 Hunters. They are water ballasted boats with swing down centerboards. They sit low on the trailer, come in right at the tow weight you're looking at and have an enormous interior and cockpit for a boat this size. The 23.5 was replaced by the 240 in the 1997 model year and my 240 has the stern rail seats. There are quite a few listed for sail on the Boats for Sale page on this website.
You should take a look at the 23.5 and 240 Hunters. They are water ballasted boats with swing down centerboards. They sit low on the trailer, come in right at the tow weight you're looking at and have an enormous interior and cockpit for a boat this size. The 23.5 was replaced by the 240 in the 1997 model year and my 240 has the stern rail seats. There are quite a few listed for sail on the Boats for Sale page on this website.
Fun choices
Sounds like you have the right attitude: don't be in a hurry. You don't want your boat to be an impulse purchase. My 2 cents: Be sure you really want to trailer your boat a lot before you make easy trailerability a primary criteria. You give up a lot to get that feature, and unless you plan to keep the boat in your driveway and launch her more than twice a year, I don't think its worth it. If you plan to keep the boat at a slip or mooring all season but trailer her home at the end of the year, then you should seriously consider a heavier trailerable. I assume you have given yourself a 3500# limit because that is all your vehicle can handle. However, you can always rent or borrow a heavier truck to make the tow a couple of times a year. By doing that, you open up your options on boats considerably. For example, the Oday 23 and 25 are more than 3500 lbs. with a trailer, but are far more roomy below than a Catalina 22. Likewise, the Catalina 25 would also be a choice for you. The pop-top version of that boat is one of my all-time favorites: easy to sail, forgiving, stable (for a 25 footer) and very livable. They are not as easy to tow because of their weight, but if you are only doing it twice a year, not a big deal. If you really are going to launch your boat multiple times, then I think you have chosen a reasonable weight limit. IMHO, I think the "newer" water-ballast Hunters and similar boats make a great use of the small space. You get a lot of boat in a trailerable package because there is no ballast to tow around. However, I really don't like the way the water ballast affects their sailing characteristics. The boats are tender with a lot of roll; for my money the ballast is too high and not heavy enough. My preference is for solid ballast. There is nothing at all wrong with buying an older boat. If properly cared for, even an inexpensive fiberglass boat will last for 30 or more years. Good luck and enjoy the shopping.
Sounds like you have the right attitude: don't be in a hurry. You don't want your boat to be an impulse purchase. My 2 cents: Be sure you really want to trailer your boat a lot before you make easy trailerability a primary criteria. You give up a lot to get that feature, and unless you plan to keep the boat in your driveway and launch her more than twice a year, I don't think its worth it. If you plan to keep the boat at a slip or mooring all season but trailer her home at the end of the year, then you should seriously consider a heavier trailerable. I assume you have given yourself a 3500# limit because that is all your vehicle can handle. However, you can always rent or borrow a heavier truck to make the tow a couple of times a year. By doing that, you open up your options on boats considerably. For example, the Oday 23 and 25 are more than 3500 lbs. with a trailer, but are far more roomy below than a Catalina 22. Likewise, the Catalina 25 would also be a choice for you. The pop-top version of that boat is one of my all-time favorites: easy to sail, forgiving, stable (for a 25 footer) and very livable. They are not as easy to tow because of their weight, but if you are only doing it twice a year, not a big deal. If you really are going to launch your boat multiple times, then I think you have chosen a reasonable weight limit. IMHO, I think the "newer" water-ballast Hunters and similar boats make a great use of the small space. You get a lot of boat in a trailerable package because there is no ballast to tow around. However, I really don't like the way the water ballast affects their sailing characteristics. The boats are tender with a lot of roll; for my money the ballast is too high and not heavy enough. My preference is for solid ballast. There is nothing at all wrong with buying an older boat. If properly cared for, even an inexpensive fiberglass boat will last for 30 or more years. Good luck and enjoy the shopping.
Go long!
John, A weekend with kids (or spouse) requires an enclosed head and large bunks. Quite a few 1990-1994 Macgregor 26's available in your area and in your price range. Example: http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/3/8/72201738.htm Don't let anyone tell you that this 26 is too big. Although it has a galley and enclosed head, it weighs only 1650# without the 1200# water ballast! Combined boat and trailer weight is only 2200#. Plus you have 6' head room with the pop-top up and good pointing with the top down. The boat sits so low on the trailer, you can launch and recover it on a heavy dew. Check the Macgregor 26 brochure on the related link below. Also go to http://www.macgregor-boats.com and read the owner's manual. Happy sails *_/), MArk
John, A weekend with kids (or spouse) requires an enclosed head and large bunks. Quite a few 1990-1994 Macgregor 26's available in your area and in your price range. Example: http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/3/8/72201738.htm Don't let anyone tell you that this 26 is too big. Although it has a galley and enclosed head, it weighs only 1650# without the 1200# water ballast! Combined boat and trailer weight is only 2200#. Plus you have 6' head room with the pop-top up and good pointing with the top down. The boat sits so low on the trailer, you can launch and recover it on a heavy dew. Check the Macgregor 26 brochure on the related link below. Also go to http://www.macgregor-boats.com and read the owner's manual. Happy sails *_/), MArk
check out the C25/C250 website
talk to those boys and then see if you can find another group of folks with so much interest and love of their boats. it speaks volumes!!
talk to those boys and then see if you can find another group of folks with so much interest and love of their boats. it speaks volumes!!
Another vote for early Mac 26
Hey John, When I went looking for a sailboat, I had pretty much the same criteria in mind as you seem to have. I'd spent a good bit of time on a girlfriends Catalina 22, but it was just a bit too small for my tastes, especially for overnighting. Great little daysailor, but it just didn't quite have the room I needed and the absence of an enclosed head was a bit of a problem. What I really wanted was a reasonably lightweight, easily trailered boat with enough room for comfort and storage, and I didn't have a lot of money to spend. What I ended-up finding was a 1989 Mac 26D. I'd looked at a few others, but this one was in really good condition, had been well maintained and already had a lot of accessories included. The guy wanted $6k, I talked him down to $5k. It came with a main, jib, 150 genoa, spinaker, (all in good shape) 9.9 hp Evinrude, spare gas tank, 2 anchors, VHF, stove, spinaker pole, life jackets, etc. I've probably put $2k into her since purchase, upgrading and adding things I wanted. So, for around $7k I have a sweet little boat that is a cinch to get on and off the trailer, is comfortable with up to 6 people aboard, fine for long weekends with 4, is easy to singlehand, can be sailed right up on the beach, can be towed with just about any reasonable car or truck and is large enough that I feel comfortable with having small kids aboard. There are a lot of really good small trailersailor boats out there, but the Mac 26 just seem to fit what I was looking for. Check one out and you may find the same thing. Jeff
Hey John, When I went looking for a sailboat, I had pretty much the same criteria in mind as you seem to have. I'd spent a good bit of time on a girlfriends Catalina 22, but it was just a bit too small for my tastes, especially for overnighting. Great little daysailor, but it just didn't quite have the room I needed and the absence of an enclosed head was a bit of a problem. What I really wanted was a reasonably lightweight, easily trailered boat with enough room for comfort and storage, and I didn't have a lot of money to spend. What I ended-up finding was a 1989 Mac 26D. I'd looked at a few others, but this one was in really good condition, had been well maintained and already had a lot of accessories included. The guy wanted $6k, I talked him down to $5k. It came with a main, jib, 150 genoa, spinaker, (all in good shape) 9.9 hp Evinrude, spare gas tank, 2 anchors, VHF, stove, spinaker pole, life jackets, etc. I've probably put $2k into her since purchase, upgrading and adding things I wanted. So, for around $7k I have a sweet little boat that is a cinch to get on and off the trailer, is comfortable with up to 6 people aboard, fine for long weekends with 4, is easy to singlehand, can be sailed right up on the beach, can be towed with just about any reasonable car or truck and is large enough that I feel comfortable with having small kids aboard. There are a lot of really good small trailersailor boats out there, but the Mac 26 just seem to fit what I was looking for. Check one out and you may find the same thing. Jeff
I liked my 240 but
I liked my 240 because of the cabin and cockpit design. It was the best design I could find and I loved things like stern rail seats, area of v-berth and clean lines. I bought new but it was totally unnecessary. You can get a 240 for 12k easy. Just sold my '01 240 w/ trailer and 5 hp Nissan for 14k. Go a couple years older and your set. Consider these things though. For all "trailerable" assets of a boat like this, don't forget maintaining the bottom paint swing keels. Its never easy! This, if you will only do limited trailering is not worth the trade-off. Get a fixed keel and you can more easily access bottom care and still trailer if need be. Plus, the performance, if you're a true sailer, isn't even close. The water ballast is, again, easy but you will heel quickly and have to reef earlier, slowing you down. A water ballast boat gets very tender quickly. Don't look past an older fixed keel 23.5, 25.5 or 26.5. These boats are among the best designed, have great character and performance is unmatched against one of the true "trailerables". I just bought an '84 25.5 for exactly what you have to spend, including trailer and motor. I had to get something more stable. I have a pop-top with 6'6" of cabin space, a great hard-charging boat with loads of character and sleek design. Regardless, I seem to like all Hunter designs the best. You'll be happy with any of these boats. It just depends on where you'd like to compromise...
I liked my 240 because of the cabin and cockpit design. It was the best design I could find and I loved things like stern rail seats, area of v-berth and clean lines. I bought new but it was totally unnecessary. You can get a 240 for 12k easy. Just sold my '01 240 w/ trailer and 5 hp Nissan for 14k. Go a couple years older and your set. Consider these things though. For all "trailerable" assets of a boat like this, don't forget maintaining the bottom paint swing keels. Its never easy! This, if you will only do limited trailering is not worth the trade-off. Get a fixed keel and you can more easily access bottom care and still trailer if need be. Plus, the performance, if you're a true sailer, isn't even close. The water ballast is, again, easy but you will heel quickly and have to reef earlier, slowing you down. A water ballast boat gets very tender quickly. Don't look past an older fixed keel 23.5, 25.5 or 26.5. These boats are among the best designed, have great character and performance is unmatched against one of the true "trailerables". I just bought an '84 25.5 for exactly what you have to spend, including trailer and motor. I had to get something more stable. I have a pop-top with 6'6" of cabin space, a great hard-charging boat with loads of character and sleek design. Regardless, I seem to like all Hunter designs the best. You'll be happy with any of these boats. It just depends on where you'd like to compromise...
Tim,
I think you meant the Hunter 23 fixed wing keel, not 23.5 which is the earlier version of your 240 water ballast. The 25.5 and 26.5 both weigh in around 4500 pounds. On a trailer that would end up being over a ton heavier than the 3500 John can handle. I have a 25.5 and its a very special boat but would not recommend it for trailering. Since John wants a quick boat, how about a J-24? Trailerable, fun daysailer, good teaching boat. Oh, did somebody say something about not being sluggish in the requirements?
I think you meant the Hunter 23 fixed wing keel, not 23.5 which is the earlier version of your 240 water ballast. The 25.5 and 26.5 both weigh in around 4500 pounds. On a trailer that would end up being over a ton heavier than the 3500 John can handle. I have a 25.5 and its a very special boat but would not recommend it for trailering. Since John wants a quick boat, how about a J-24? Trailerable, fun daysailer, good teaching boat. Oh, did somebody say something about not being sluggish in the requirements?
Beneteau First 235
My vote is for an F235. This is an excellent boat with a very high build quality. It doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles but it is built with a lot of the same parts as the larger Beneteau’s. This is a very well designed boat. It is an excellent sailing boat and frankly you can race it if you want to do that or you can take it out for weekend with the kids. It has a full marine head (which is a big plus) and it in many ways it seems like a larger boat. If you shop around a bit you can get a good one for about $10K. Most F235’s have been day sailors and don't have some of the problems that a lot of 15 year old boats that have spend their lives in the ocean at a marina. There are other boats out there that I like but the F235. It might work best for you. Check one out. --Dan
My vote is for an F235. This is an excellent boat with a very high build quality. It doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles but it is built with a lot of the same parts as the larger Beneteau’s. This is a very well designed boat. It is an excellent sailing boat and frankly you can race it if you want to do that or you can take it out for weekend with the kids. It has a full marine head (which is a big plus) and it in many ways it seems like a larger boat. If you shop around a bit you can get a good one for about $10K. Most F235’s have been day sailors and don't have some of the problems that a lot of 15 year old boats that have spend their lives in the ocean at a marina. There are other boats out there that I like but the F235. It might work best for you. Check one out. --Dan
Gouchester 22
If you can find one in good condition, they are great boats. Extremely roomy cockpit and cabin for a 22' boat. Six opening ports and an opening hatch. Combination shoal keel w/ centerboard. They are easy to trailer but stepping the mast is best done by 2 folks. I think boat and trailer come in around 3000#. I pulled mine w/ a 6 cyl. ford ranger.
If you can find one in good condition, they are great boats. Extremely roomy cockpit and cabin for a 22' boat. Six opening ports and an opening hatch. Combination shoal keel w/ centerboard. They are easy to trailer but stepping the mast is best done by 2 folks. I think boat and trailer come in around 3000#. I pulled mine w/ a 6 cyl. ford ranger.
Think about trailering - will it work for you?
I had a 16' Hobie years ago that I kept on the beach at our lake home and used it constantly. When I moved and no longer could use the lake, the boat sat on the trailer for about 5 years before I finally sold it. We used the boat less than a handful of times. Similarly, my ski boat sat on its trailer, very clean and shiny. We used it because it was much easier to launch and use for short durations. However, I was not satisfied because we didn't use it enough. I put the ski boat on a slip at a marina. Now it looks like .... but it's getting used! We bought our sailboat and specifically looked for something that must be kept on the water. We go out for a sail at almost every opportunity because it is ready to go. The point is ... not many people want to spend an entire day on the water. I can enjoy it, but my wife and kids would revolt! Unless your kids are really, really patient or compliant, there is not much chance that they are going to enjoy the hours spent watching/helping dad set up the sailboat - I don't care how easy the advertisers say it is. You won't be using the boat for a 2-hour sail. You will only use it when you have the whole day available, and who really wants to do that all the time. There are proponents of trailering and my hat is off to them because there are numerous advantages. My experience doing it both ways led me to keeping the boats on the water where I can use them at every opportunity. If not, they sit in the back yard being looked at by my wife, and wondering why we have them!
I had a 16' Hobie years ago that I kept on the beach at our lake home and used it constantly. When I moved and no longer could use the lake, the boat sat on the trailer for about 5 years before I finally sold it. We used the boat less than a handful of times. Similarly, my ski boat sat on its trailer, very clean and shiny. We used it because it was much easier to launch and use for short durations. However, I was not satisfied because we didn't use it enough. I put the ski boat on a slip at a marina. Now it looks like .... but it's getting used! We bought our sailboat and specifically looked for something that must be kept on the water. We go out for a sail at almost every opportunity because it is ready to go. The point is ... not many people want to spend an entire day on the water. I can enjoy it, but my wife and kids would revolt! Unless your kids are really, really patient or compliant, there is not much chance that they are going to enjoy the hours spent watching/helping dad set up the sailboat - I don't care how easy the advertisers say it is. You won't be using the boat for a 2-hour sail. You will only use it when you have the whole day available, and who really wants to do that all the time. There are proponents of trailering and my hat is off to them because there are numerous advantages. My experience doing it both ways led me to keeping the boats on the water where I can use them at every opportunity. If not, they sit in the back yard being looked at by my wife, and wondering why we have them!
Scott and John,
Maybe the happy middle ground is to leave the boat rigged and put the boat on a trailer for storage at the local marina. This usually reduces to cost of ownership and simplifies the necessary preparation when the boat is to be used. This allows boats like Hunter 25.5s to me more practical but still busts the 3500 pound limit on combined towing weight. Even with these arrangements, the Hunter 23 seems like a good choice.
Maybe the happy middle ground is to leave the boat rigged and put the boat on a trailer for storage at the local marina. This usually reduces to cost of ownership and simplifies the necessary preparation when the boat is to be used. This allows boats like Hunter 25.5s to me more practical but still busts the 3500 pound limit on combined towing weight. Even with these arrangements, the Hunter 23 seems like a good choice.
trailering
Hello, Last year I decided sailing with the family would be a GOOD THING. Did some research (much of it here), decided a C22 was the boat for me, found one and bought it. This was July, and no moorings were available near me (north shore of Long Island, NY). That's Ok, the boat is trailerable and I don't know where I would want to sail either (Long Island Sound, Great South Bay, Peconid bay, etc.). We spent the rest of the summer and fall learning and having fun. Sailing was great. Rigging, launching, hauling, de-rigging was not. Even after 10 times practicing, it would still take about 1 hour from the time we got to the marina until the family boarded the boat. And the same hour from the time we arrived at the ramp until we were driving home. There are many benefits of trailerable boats: no slip or mooring fees much easier to care for the boat the boat stays much cleaner much easier to load the boat with gear However, as Scott wrote, unless we had the entire day to spend (AND the weather forecast was favorable) we didn't bother. It made no sense to sail for 2 hours if it would more time than that preparing the boat. This year I put the boat on a mooring and it was just wonderful. I wouldn't change the way we did things. We were able to try sailing in more places than if we just dropped the boat in the water and left it. Regarding over night trips, any boat small enough to trailer is going to be REAL tight for a weekend. I thought about spending a weekend on my C22, but it was not big enough. Even my 28' Newport is tight, and it is about 3X the size of a C22. Finally, if you aren't sure about what to buy, my advice would be to find the nicest condition, oldest boat, for the least amount of money. Using Catalina 22's as an example, you can find very nice boats from the early 80's, in sail away condition for $4000. I know because that's what I sold mine for. It was in very nice condition, included a 1994 trailer with brand new tires, 1994 5 HP motor that ran great, and 1993 sails. I looked about 1990 boats and they were in worse condition than the 1981 I bought, and the later boats were more money too! Buy something cheap, get out there, have fun, and then you'll know if sailing, trailer sailing, small boats, etc. are for you. If you decide to get out, get something bigger, or something newer, the first boat won't cost you much. One last thing, I decided that I LOVE sailing and wanted to do more. So I sold the C22 and bought a Newport 28. Big enough for my family of 5 to overnight on, big enough to handle more weather conditions, big enough to have a real head, and still small enough to learn on, care for, etc. Good luck, Barry
Hello, Last year I decided sailing with the family would be a GOOD THING. Did some research (much of it here), decided a C22 was the boat for me, found one and bought it. This was July, and no moorings were available near me (north shore of Long Island, NY). That's Ok, the boat is trailerable and I don't know where I would want to sail either (Long Island Sound, Great South Bay, Peconid bay, etc.). We spent the rest of the summer and fall learning and having fun. Sailing was great. Rigging, launching, hauling, de-rigging was not. Even after 10 times practicing, it would still take about 1 hour from the time we got to the marina until the family boarded the boat. And the same hour from the time we arrived at the ramp until we were driving home. There are many benefits of trailerable boats: no slip or mooring fees much easier to care for the boat the boat stays much cleaner much easier to load the boat with gear However, as Scott wrote, unless we had the entire day to spend (AND the weather forecast was favorable) we didn't bother. It made no sense to sail for 2 hours if it would more time than that preparing the boat. This year I put the boat on a mooring and it was just wonderful. I wouldn't change the way we did things. We were able to try sailing in more places than if we just dropped the boat in the water and left it. Regarding over night trips, any boat small enough to trailer is going to be REAL tight for a weekend. I thought about spending a weekend on my C22, but it was not big enough. Even my 28' Newport is tight, and it is about 3X the size of a C22. Finally, if you aren't sure about what to buy, my advice would be to find the nicest condition, oldest boat, for the least amount of money. Using Catalina 22's as an example, you can find very nice boats from the early 80's, in sail away condition for $4000. I know because that's what I sold mine for. It was in very nice condition, included a 1994 trailer with brand new tires, 1994 5 HP motor that ran great, and 1993 sails. I looked about 1990 boats and they were in worse condition than the 1981 I bought, and the later boats were more money too! Buy something cheap, get out there, have fun, and then you'll know if sailing, trailer sailing, small boats, etc. are for you. If you decide to get out, get something bigger, or something newer, the first boat won't cost you much. One last thing, I decided that I LOVE sailing and wanted to do more. So I sold the C22 and bought a Newport 28. Big enough for my family of 5 to overnight on, big enough to handle more weather conditions, big enough to have a real head, and still small enough to learn on, care for, etc. Good luck, Barry
Thanks!
Thanks everyone for all of the responses to my question "What to buy?". I appreciate all of you taking the time to pass on your words of wisdom.
Thanks everyone for all of the responses to my question "What to buy?". I appreciate all of you taking the time to pass on your words of wisdom.
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