What the @!*%$ is going on with my valves?

[kloudie1]

Sounds like you are making headway, Robert..GREAT.. I would not think you'd do any damage by running it the way you did.. My best guess is that you'll find your primary filter plugged again, or the fuel pickup tube screen, at the tip, inside the tank plugged.. Sounds lke more fuel woes..

 

[Dan Johnson]

Kloudie...

Claude, I still have a very modified '65 Honda CB-160 sitting under a tarp in my garage that I haven't ridden in 20 years. Working the wrenches through those little ports was always a challenge to do valve gapping.

More fun was racing Triumphs in SCCA--valve timing adjustments were the least of the problems! Years later tried to make a running adjustment on my Toyota--pumped almost a quart of oil all over the fenders before I could get over the shock of the geysers and killed the engine! LOL!

Instead of being exact, I used go/no-go feelers to get the gapping right.

Glad this thread came up as I'm planning to do a valve adjustment this fall before putting the Yannie to bed for the winter.

Well said descriptions everyone!

 

[Allan12210]

Dan,

A CB 160! I always wanted one of those in high school. It was the smallest bike that Honda made that was freway legal. But, dad said no way. I had to wait until college then I bought my CB 350. Couldn't afford the 450. I forgot about adjusting those valves through the little holes in the cylinder heads. I do have my father in laws 1963 Honda 90 under a tarp. He siezed the engine in 1972 because he never put oil in it. I said I would fix it, but never did. I had a "new" engine, but found out it was the wrong one...doesn't match the mounting bolts. Its in such sorry shape I think its is time to just junk it.

Allan

 

[Bill Roosa]

Engine damage and poor running

Adjusting the valve lash incorrectly will not damage the engine unless the tappet screw and nut fall off and get jammed into something. Assuming that did not happen so all that you might notice is a noisy engine.
the valve lash will not effect engine performance. The amount of valve lift that you are talking about is minor compared to the total lift. I'm thinking air in the fuel line. Yes, I know you bled the lines but my experience is you can run the engine for a 1/2 hour at low speed before you might get that air bubble to start acting up. Try the easy thing first and re-bleed the lines.

 

[Bill Roosa]

engine rebuilding and valve timing

Just a word of caution. Diesels are interference engines. That means that getting the valve timing wrong WILL result in a hole in the top of your piston or a bent valve or both. After rebuilding the engine take the time to check the valve timing by SLOWLY and GENTLY rotating the engine by had through two complete rotations. If there is any sudden resistance STOP and recheck the valve timing.

 

[soling42]

After years of fussy old diesel engine experience I'd say your throttle down was almost definitely a supply issue. My last injector pump issue was from old o-rings in the pump that disintegrated from biofuel and old age and clogged the pump. All the filters were fine but the pump was clogged with rubber shreds. Hopefully yours is just a clogged filter or pickup.

Unless it's sucking air, bubbles wouldn't last long at anything above half throttle but beyond that(although I know most cruisers do it regularly while charging batts) a diesel really doesn't like running at higher throttle settings without a load for very long. Cleaning your fuel/tank and checking for a consistent injector pump sounds like your next project.

Had plenty of old Honda's back in the day but really loved my late 60's Triumph tiger twin in a nickel plated Rickman frame. Put stickey Dunlop road tires on that throaty old bike designed for high speed desert racing. It was so sweet on a curvey road, like riding a rail. The Rickman/Triumph shop manual actually said if it's not leaking oil then there isn't any in it. The smell, the speed, the growl, man those were the days. Thanks for the memories and now back to my quiet monohull at 5kts.

Old Mike

 

[robertsapp]

I can't tell you how much I appreciate all the advice I've received. It will be this weekend before I have the time to take another crack at the valves, but I'll post my results for those that are interested now that I finally understand what I was doing wrong, and more importantly, how to do it right! Yanking the tank and giving it a thorough cleaning has definitely been on my to do list for a while. I intended to wait until the off season (here in NW Florida it gets too damned cold to sail in January and February) but now I might have to push that up. I have no doubt I'll find an inch of scum in the bottom, after hearing that the PO didn't even change the fuel filter in over four years. I've been adding the maximum recommended dose of biocide with the fuel I put in, so I'm guessing I've probably killed off 15 years of algae growth all at once. I'll need to put in an inspection port though. The only openings into the tank are the fuel filler line and the level sender. Maybe a 2" opening max. Hard to get anything in there to scrub it down. Anyway, like I said, I've gone from being totally despondent and thinking I was most likely looking at major engine repairs or a rebuild, to hopeful and anxious to give it another go. We refer to our boat as our floating classroom!

 

[Ed Schenck]

I'll be interested in hearing what you find in the tank. I cut two cleanout ports in my tank which was 20 years old at the time. Except for a teaspoon amount of gunk around the fuel pickup I could barely get a stain on a cleaning rag. Will being in the south with a salt water environ make that much difference?

 

[SamLust]

Tight. The screws are very hard and will not strip.

 

[Dan Johnson]

Old Mike...

Ahah! The oil stains on a garage floor marking the tracks of an old Brit bike! One of my friends had a Bonny the other a Beezer Rocket--both were "leakers". I couldn't outrun them on my Honda, but they couldn't beat me off a stop light!

Only saw Rickman stuff on Trials bikes. Bet you haven't had the thrill of being pitched over the handlebars by the kick starter of a Beezer 441 when it backfired! Ah, the good old days!

 

[soling42]

Glad you got your issue fixed without too much hassle.

All it took was a little talk about valves to bring 'em out. Now I know where all the old gear heads went. I still don't understand how we ended up in such an amazingly slow, pure and quiet sport from such a raw, smelly and loud youth. Maybe it was wives and payback for raising Caine in the 60's Go out there and bury the rail on a big day offshore just for old times sake.

Mike

 

[SamLust]

Ducati 450 Jupiter. Bumble bee yellow. kicked back, tried to break my leg. walked funny for a month. Never try to start a BIG Ducati single wearing boat shoes!

 

[SamLust]

If you owned a 441 Victor you probably deserved it. Sold dozens of them out of Boston Cycles. They made the Norton Commando seem as reliable as a Toyota in comparison.

 

[Allan12210]

Yamaha 360 that was my roommate's. He let me use it one weekend while my Honda was in the shop and he was doing his National Guard duty while we were going to Cal Poly. By Saturday afternoon both ankles were sprained and I was too afraid to kick start it anymore. Good thing we lived on a hill. I push started it from then on.

 

[robertsapp]

Here's how it turned out

I thought I'd let you guys know how it turned out, since there's a lesson in here somewhere. Thanks to all your wonderful advice, I went back and dialed in the valves just right, but still no joy - engine wouldn't start. While I was perusing the internet looking for answers, I came across a post on marineengine.com in which the author said "I've seen more engines repaired, rebuilt or replaced due to a clogged mixing elbow...". I thought "hey, haven't checked that yet." Guess what. Completely plugged. Not a chance any exhaust was getting through. Stopped by my friendly local parts dealer, picked up a new exhaust elbow, gasket, coupler, and mixing elbow (I was already planning on replacing the exhaust since it's original and the boat is 15 years old), slapped them on this afternoon, and now that baby is purring like a kitten. She's never run so good. So as best I can estimate, I may have had a plugged primary filter, or maybe it was the mixing elbow that caused the drop off in RPM. After I replaced the filters, I incorrectly adjusted the valves, which may have contributed to the elbow completely plugging up about 20 minutes into my run test. Then I spent two weeks chasing issues trying to get the engine to start, when the whole time the elbow was plugged solid. After learning from you folks how to PROPERLY adjust the valves, I replaced the mixing elbow, and now I have a well tuned and ready to go engine. Don't know what I would have done without this site!

 

[Allan12210]

Nice! Just in time for a 3 day weekend. I hope you can get out and enjoy.

 

[kloudie1]

Great ! Just in time for some fine fall sailing!.. as soon as all the storms slow down a bit ! When I walked out to get the paper this morning, it was clear and 72F hadn't been that cool in a while !
That elbow is a bugger ! Mine had a exhaust passage clogged to less than a half inch when I changed it .. It would run OK but would overheat at higher rpm.. and didn't have a lot of power ..It was plugged when I bought the boat so I thought that was normal.. I was working on the overheat part when I stumbled onto the elbow being a problem.

 

[Dan Johnson]

Sam...

no, the 441 wasn't mine but my buddy's. I think he delighted in tormenting others to try to start the beast. Once he got someone to start it, he wouldn't shut it down (I think out of fear). It's only saving grace was that low end torque in traffic and that "thumpa - thumpa" exhaust note. He finally unloaded it for a Triumph Bonne. None of us could afford a Norton!