What the heck is: Loran 797

[capta]

You have a lot more experience that I do. All of my cruising has been coastal to VA and NC or in a lake. I've owned 7 sailboats in the past 18 years and only the last two had roller furled headsails. I have not liked the sail shape on either once I start to furl. I remind myself they are not called roller reefers but furlers. What I have found on my Hunter is that she will sail very well with headsail only. So my first reef is to the main, the second is to take the main all the way down, the third is to roll in about 25% of the head sail and if it is still too much, I pack it in and motor. I can keep my H26 comfortable to about 25 mph and then I give up. .... The only solid point to connect a solent stay would be the U-bolt in the anchor locker but I'd have to leave the locker open or drill a hole in the hatch... (hmmm...that actually might work... ????) It would be really nice if I could quickly deploy a small heavy jib. I think a second set of reef points in the main would also be nice. If I could keep my boat on her feet in the 30 mph range, I'd call it a win.

When the wind and seas get up, sailing efficiency goes down to some degree anyway, so the poor sail shape isn't of much consequence on a channel crossing of 4 to 6 hours.
Offshore, like sailing from the states to the Caribbean, should a severe squall hit you in the middle of the night, the last place you want to be is on the foredeck trying to furl the jib in 50 knots or more, I can tell you that from experience. I could give you dozens of my real life examples of why you wouldn't want hank-on jibs on your cruising boat, and that is all I'm trying to say.
I did a circumnavigation with hanked jibs. I'm not trying to be flippant or rude. IMO, cruising should be as safe as possible, especially if you are cruising alone or with your significant other. If you can handle all your gear from the cockpit, that a big step towards minimizing the dangers, as few as they are, when cruising.

 

[Capt Robbie]

great museum peice, but back in the 80s it was considered high tech, you were considered king of the high seas if you had one. Plotted Lat Lon courses gave speed over ground. Kinda falls into the same caatagory as a nasa computer of the day would take up six rooms vs what a modern cellphone can do today.
I think you should put it on the shelf next to the beeper.

 

[rgranger]

And... did this thread just turn from Loran to hanked on jib?

My bad...

 

[Brian D]

My bad...

... and 10 points to Gryffindor for being honest.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

well- to Mexico once- and across the Gulf 4 times now, once singlehand

 

[Hayden Watson]

Congratulations @Fidgit on joining the forum and getting your first sail boat. May Poseidon treat you and your boat with care and understanding of a father.

May the four winds bring you breezes that let you fly.

Ahhh LORAN the magic of man. A triumph of engineering that brought seafarers back safely to port when the waters were disturbed. The skippers here have faithfully shared the nature of the gift you received with your acquisition of a sailing boat. Oh the stories LORAN might tell of dark and stormy nights, green water breaking over the bow, the rocks, a beacon of light, and the hum of the true signal showing the course to shelter - safety - the warm hugs from worried family members.

Unfortunately The LORAN like the DoDo bird has been lost in time. They are but a weight without purpose. Attempts to sell them are but a fool’s errand. I fear finding a home for your treasure may be a search with no path or map.

Fear not we sailors have been resourceful. Many have removed the LORAN from our boats and placed them reverently in a box on a shelf in the garage. A memory of days gone by collecting dust awaiting that fearful day when that person whom shares the storage space shouts, “when are you going to clean the garage and dump that useless stuff?”

Thank you John. Best laugh Sue and I have had in days! You are a true wordsmith.

 

[dLj]

At least he didn't find a Radio Direction Finder on the boat. Not that I am old enough to remember them.................................................

Good grief, what does that make me??? I used a radio direction finder for several years, not just remember them... Oh right, I couldn't afford Loran!

dj

 

[Cest La Vie]

My first “big boat” was also an O’Day 25 and came with a Sitex LORAN unit. At that time in 2000, GPS was just entering the consumer market and a big, clunky device that displayed only Lat/Long was priced well above $2,000. Ultimately, GPS provided a more accurate Lat/Long than LORAN, but....LORAN provided a much more repeatable result. Fishing guides loved the LORAN as they could find their favorite site within a few feet.

 

[ifmdalvey]

That was LORAN A. Used it from the Mexican border to Kodiac Island, Ak on the commercial fishing boats (salmon, crab, etc.) when I was a teen.
I had one on my first big boat in 1970 on my crossing to Hawaii (that was about as far out as it would reliably work) and it was pretty neat, as every other voyage to Hawaii before that we had to do celestial.

My set allowed selection of Loran A B or C, by the time i was using it only C was available in the north sea and northern Norway but we still used the old fashioned method of identifying the master and slaves and bringing them together, there was no Lat / Long readout for easy plotting, that came with Omega for me.My first GPS set involved loading crypto into the machine which brought the accuracy down to about 150 yards, now its down to a couple of yards with DGPS, how times have changed.

 

[Michael Davis]

@Fidgit , I still have some old Loran C charts if you want to come out here and practise with it. I do believe that the land based radio stations have been closed for 20 years at least.

 

[dLj]

I guess because I had the radio direction finder and never went to Loran, I jumped from radio direction finder to SatNav. Anybody remember that one? Pre-dates GPS. Man, it was great, you'd get, wow, several hits a day with your lat-long. I'd have to go dig up one of my old charts where we went down the coast of France to Spain running our new to us SatNav receiver to see how frequently we got a fix.

And to think I just bought a beautiful sextant because I want to go back to using it on long legs... Certainly not for coastal cruising, but it will be a blast to use on long trips!

dj

p.s. - you could still use a radio direction finder today (unlike Loran) with good maps of radio transmission towers... It's independent of communication systems, you only need a radio transmission...

 

[ifmdalvey]

Exactly what ours was on the transport We flew a full time navigator on the plane aircraft

I was a full time navigator flying over the oceans on anti submarine patrol in the British Nimrod ASW aircraft.

 

[Fidgit]

Thanks for all the stories and info everyone! I suppose I should have known that navigation would be close to a sailors heart! It's certainly got me to do some research. It sounds like most of you are correct. the LORAN system in the US was shutdown back in 2009/2010. and it's slowly loosing support around the world. eLORAN is a possible future option, but it will not be compatible with existing hardware. Also, it's still in the experimental phase, and will likely not be a viable alternative to GNSS for years to come.

That said. I guess we don't really need a radio alternative to the satellite based nav systems out there. We have GPS, Galileo, and GLONASS, and some other smaller ones. all of which use satellites that are solar powered, and designed to run without maintenance. So they'll probably be around long after Armageddon has claimed us all..

I've got a terminal case of pack-rat. so I guess my unit will end up on a shelf in the shed. I've already got a small GPS enabled tablet in it's place. Its mostly going to be relegated to tracking my speed and recording my path, since I'll be primarily sailing on the inland lakes of WI. at least until I build up the skill and confidence to venture out on Lake Michigan someday.

 

[dLj]

That said. I guess we don't really need a radio alternative to the satellite based nav systems out there. We have GPS, Galileo, and GLONASS, and some other smaller ones. all of which use satellites that are solar powered, and designed to run without maintenance. So they'll probably be around long after Armageddon has claimed us all..

That's not exactly correct. The satellite network does require maintenance. Each satellite has a limited life-span. They will need to be replaced. I don't recall the expected working lifetime, but it's not as long as you may think. There is a lot of highly damaging "stuff" those satellites are hit with every day. There is also some communication with ground based equipment that needs doing. I used to know a lot more about this, but it's been a long time since I've had involvement in that field and it's all fading away....

dj

 

[capta]

I jumped from radio direction finder to SatNav. Anybody remember that one? Pre-dates GPS.

I had SatNav units on some boats I delivered to and from the Caribbean. I didn't trust them in the beginning, so I verified their positions with my sextant and after three days, I'd relax and use the machine.
I haven't carried my sextant (a Freiberger), and the ancillary things necessary to use it, since GPS became small enough for pleasure craft use. Poor old thing just sits in it's box awaiting someone to love it again. So sad.

 

[capta]

That said. I guess we don't really need a radio alternative to the satellite based nav systems out there. We have GPS, Galileo, and GLONASS, and some other smaller ones. all of which use satellites that are solar powered, and designed to run without maintenance. So they'll probably be around long after Armageddon has claimed us all..

GPS is also immensely easy to hack, so at any moment yours could begin delivering unreliable information. The US system (and I assume the others) can be turned off to non-military applications in a war. Don't throw your RDF away just yet. I carry two aboard Skipping Stone.

 

[dLj]

I had SatNav units on some boats I delivered to and from the Caribbean. I didn't trust them in the beginning, so I verified their positions with my sextant and after three days, I'd relax and use the machine.
I haven't carried my sextant (a Freiberger), and the ancillary things necessary to use it, since GPS became small enough for pleasure craft use. Poor old thing just sits in it's box awaiting someone to love it again. So sad.

I just picked up a C. Plath in almost pristine condition. I've sent it off to Ridge White to fully service. I should have it back in a couple weeks or so. I just like to keep my mind active with knowing everything that needs knowing to navigate with the sextant. It's really a nostalgic kind of thing coupled with wanting to keep some things alive in the old brain...

GPS is so much easier/better/more accurate/ the list goes on.... I will use GPS as my number one - except when not necessary.

dj

 

[capta]

I just picked up a C. Plath in almost pristine condition. I've sent it off to Ridge White to fully service. I should have it back in a couple weeks or so. I just like to keep my mind active with knowing everything that needs knowing to navigate with the sextant. It's really a nostalgic kind of thing coupled with wanting to keep some things alive in the old brain...

GPS is so much easier/better/more accurate/ the list goes on.... I will use GPS as my number one - except when not necessary.

dj

C. Plath is a nice bit of kit!
Unfortunately, in my experience, if one isn't doing celestial on a daily basis, it takes some days to get back in the swing of things.
It doesn't sound as if you intend celestial as a back-up for your electronic nav gear, which some do. I sincerely hope those that do never need to.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

I was a full time navigator flying over the oceans on anti submarine patrol in the British Nimrod ASW aircraft.

Browsing around the internet one day I found a pic of the transport I was radioman aboard. I can still recite the call numbers even after this long. We flew Keflvik Iceland Prestwick Scotland Mildenhall England Rhine Main Germany every Thursday morning- return every Sunday. R and R flight. Also side trips as needed- Brussels Belgium, Bodo Norway (above the circle) and one time to Paris (Orly field- we refueled and departed around 0200 so I saw the Eifful tower at around 0200)

Pictured on tamack, Mildenhall

 

[Tom J]

I was a full time navigator flying over the oceans on anti submarine patrol in the British Nimrod ASW aircraft.

On the aircraft I worked on in the 70's, the RSO in the back seat used celestial nav in the day time to determine course and heading. Any guesses which aircraft?