What size Genoa

Bill1565 · Sep 26, 2013

jwwrma said:
I purchased a 1988 Hunter 23 this year and sailed and raced her all season. The jib I currently have on the boat looks like a 100LP. It is completely inadequate in big winds and the boat weather helms like crazy. So I want something larger; but how large? Thinking 135, 140 or 150. Any thoughts? :neutral: thanks From dinghys to keel boats

You need to spend time with Don Gillete's column on this forum. In big winds you need SMALLER sails . Weather helm means too much main, not too little jib.

rufus1138 · Sep 27, 2013

if you determine that you need a bigger genoa (wich i discourage, flatter is faster and if you cant keep it down reefing and reducing is the answer not more sail to attempt to "balance" the rig in too much air) north sails has a system for a roller furling genoa that can support up to a 150 that will furl up to a 90 and retain shape, not sure if this will still work on a 23 since i was told it was developed for cruising boats but its worth a try if you insist, best roller furling sails on the market. next time you are out try reefing the main to beat in the conditions you reference, tighten the backstay and ease the main to take pressure off the helm.

Jackdaw · Sep 27, 2013

jwwrma said:
The H23 does have a rather large main and I am being told that I need a larger Genoa to compensate for the pull of the main. I have a furler so I can furl if necessary. The problem arises when I race in winds over 15kts, I cannot remain close hauled; the boat just turns into the wind and I have zero rudder control to hold her away. I have the tiller pulled over so far that I end up stopping the boat. When I try a close reach the jib luffs. When I am sailing downwind I get killed by the Tanzer 22's with their 160's.

Reef. You are dealing with 20 knots of apparent wind. Once you have more than 15 degrees of weather tiller, you need to de-power your sail plan. On a fractional boat, that means mainsail. I assume you have gone to full backstay and out haul by this point!

Chief RA · Sep 27, 2013

You got good advice from these sailors. The thing that comes to mind with me is that you seem to espouse the concept mistakenly used by many that the further over you are the faster you are going. The opposite is true, so let that main out so your rudder can control your boat well! Then you might consider a 150% drifter (nylon Genoa) that you can let out also! If you are overpowering your rudder, the best low dollar fix is to enlarge your rudder surface and its depth. I sailed and raced a 1974 26' Clipper Marine for many years and she used a 175% Drifter with huge aftermarket rudder. When other boats were rounding up she was almost on plane! Wimpy rudders are a seriously hampering device. If you are lower than about 15 to 20 degrees you have those sails catching wind not redirecting wind! Sailing is an art so practice and study if you want to be good at it. Chief

rufus1138 · Sep 27, 2013

does this boat we're discussing have a backstay at all? if not thats a problem, but definitely gotta get the power out of the main, install a cunningham make an amsteel backstay if you have to for racing, its worth every penny to be able to depower the boat....if you dont have any friends near that are accomplished tacticians that have any clue what vmg is then get raymarine tacktik instruments and figure out what and how to sail your boat to the best vmg, go back to regatta basics.

k, just did some research, should have a backstay, my friend has one of these, easy to reduce power but also has a shallow draft, not sure how well you're going to get it to point, the roller furler is hurting you in a race i promise, hank that thing on and get rid of the furler or use a foil and pre-feeder, other than that this boat does not go good down wind, especially ddw, not sure if there is a spin class for you but that would be a consideration if you're just bound and determined to hot rod the boat.

Jackdaw · Sep 27, 2013

From another owner's on-line review of the H23:

Sailing Performance

Due to the large rig and shallow wing keel, the Hunter 23 is definitely not a heavy air boat. It will not carry a 155% genny with winds above 10 kts and with a working jib, it is time to reef when the winds exceed 15 kts. When overpowered, the boat rapidly heels resulting in a significant weather helm. I found that reefing early always made the ride more pleasant and the boat easier to handle while not really hurting boat speed. I occasionally sailed the boat under reefed main alone in winds up to 30 kts. The boat handled fine but was unable to make much progress to windward into chop. Under those conditions, the boat could be tacked with little problem. Once during a long race, we (along with 200 other boats) were caught in a squall line with 50 kt gusts. Luckily, we were on a run and I had plenty of rail meat on board so we handled it just fine. OBTW, eight boats sank that day.

The Hunter really shines in light winds. I found myself sailing on many light wind days when most people stayed at the dock. Due to the wing keel, the boat will not point as high as some, but moves very nicely when cracked off of the wind a bit. I found the 155% with a wisker pole to be a great alternative to having a spinnaker. The very large rudder gives good steerage and the ability to tack when you are barely moving. In direct racing conditions with less than 8 kts of wind, I found the H23 to be faster than the C22, H23.5 and H260.

Chief RA · Sep 27, 2013

Jackdaw, Rufus: The last entry that Jackdaw posted pretty well sums up what we were trying to impart to this sailor! Chief

rufus1138 · Sep 27, 2013

interested to see some kind of success story, let us know when your next race is op, we're rooting for u. light winds are more fun anyway lol.

rufus1138 · Sep 27, 2013

good times op, do you have vang? that can give you an edge in de-powering the main, although when i went out on my friends boat (same model as yours) it didnt seem that a vang would help too much, i got the same story from north about their roller furling jibs but idk how much i would trust the system to scale down to ur size, thats a small foretriangle no matter how you look at it.

Kermit · Sep 27, 2013

Jackdaw said:
From another owner's on-line review of the H23:
In direct racing conditions with less than 8 kts of wind, I found the H23 to be faster than the C22, H23.5 and H260.

I've been sailing an H23 for over 3 years. I don't race but could learn to love racing if I could race against C22s. I don't really know why but I sail faster than my buddy on his C22 consistently. We just bought an H260. Have no idea how it will do against my buddy. Can't wait to find out!