I'm buying a new 2001 C380 what kind of things should the broker make sure is done to my boat like painting... what type of paint...Is there a wrong way?What should be used for preping the surface? Can I do it...?What should I look out for...I would like an inverter bimini ,dodger, ssb radio,radio...? The boat has never been in the water. Should I put a water maker and D. generator?? HELP
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New Boat
Greg, Some of these questions depend on what you ar going to do with the boat. My guess is your not going to race the 380 so I would recommend an ablative bottom paint. I use Pettit Ultima SR and like it very much. Make sure you get Zincs on the shaft. I use two. I had a spur installed, it’s a line cutter. Lots of lobster pot where we are. In the lakes this is not an issue. You may want to consider a feathering prop. These run a couple of thousand but will have lower drag during sailing, and more power at a lower rpm while motoring. They save fuel as well. If you have a three blade fixed prop it will have considerable prop walk while getting into the slip. You can use that to your advantage unless it’s to the wrong side. Such as, you dock to port and have a left hand twist prop and it walks to starboard. I do recommend an inverter, in that boat a 1500 or 2000 watt unit would be the right size. As for a genset, will you be cruising for long periods of time or running AC? My guess is in the Chicago area AC is not a big factor like in the islands, so I'd tend to say no on the genset. A genset for that boat could be 6 or 8K installed. I personally would just upgrade the house batteries to get more amphours. Bimini and Dodger are a must! Especially in the north. The dodger will help extend your season a little because on cooler days you can get out of the wind. The bimini also help with both sun and rain. If the dealer or broker in putting an anchor and rode on the boat, you can bet it's going to be crap. Good ground tackle costs real actual money. The boat would require something like a 45lb CQR plow and 200 ft of 12 plait braid with 50ft of chain. Total cost somewhere around a grand. I'm not sure about a SSB radio because I do mostly coastal cruising and a standard VHF works fine for me. But if you plan to do serious blue water stuff then I think the investment may be warranted. If you do have to get a VHF radio, make sure you get the ram mic option so you have a radio at the helm. What are you doing for chartplotters and radar? Also you definitely want an under deck autopiolt on this boat. I used the Raymarine ST6000 . It's fabulous. The new gear will overlay the radar images on the chartplotter to make things easier. As for watermakers, where are you going to go. The freshwater tankage on that boat should hold you for several days. Watermakers are very expensive and use lots of power. So my thought is if you need one of those, you need the genset. The two units installed could be 15 grand. You may be able to sneak extra water tanks into that boat, and it would be a whole lot cheaper. The 380 is a nice boat and she’ll serve you well. Enjoy, Chris
Greg, Some of these questions depend on what you ar going to do with the boat. My guess is your not going to race the 380 so I would recommend an ablative bottom paint. I use Pettit Ultima SR and like it very much. Make sure you get Zincs on the shaft. I use two. I had a spur installed, it’s a line cutter. Lots of lobster pot where we are. In the lakes this is not an issue. You may want to consider a feathering prop. These run a couple of thousand but will have lower drag during sailing, and more power at a lower rpm while motoring. They save fuel as well. If you have a three blade fixed prop it will have considerable prop walk while getting into the slip. You can use that to your advantage unless it’s to the wrong side. Such as, you dock to port and have a left hand twist prop and it walks to starboard. I do recommend an inverter, in that boat a 1500 or 2000 watt unit would be the right size. As for a genset, will you be cruising for long periods of time or running AC? My guess is in the Chicago area AC is not a big factor like in the islands, so I'd tend to say no on the genset. A genset for that boat could be 6 or 8K installed. I personally would just upgrade the house batteries to get more amphours. Bimini and Dodger are a must! Especially in the north. The dodger will help extend your season a little because on cooler days you can get out of the wind. The bimini also help with both sun and rain. If the dealer or broker in putting an anchor and rode on the boat, you can bet it's going to be crap. Good ground tackle costs real actual money. The boat would require something like a 45lb CQR plow and 200 ft of 12 plait braid with 50ft of chain. Total cost somewhere around a grand. I'm not sure about a SSB radio because I do mostly coastal cruising and a standard VHF works fine for me. But if you plan to do serious blue water stuff then I think the investment may be warranted. If you do have to get a VHF radio, make sure you get the ram mic option so you have a radio at the helm. What are you doing for chartplotters and radar? Also you definitely want an under deck autopiolt on this boat. I used the Raymarine ST6000 . It's fabulous. The new gear will overlay the radar images on the chartplotter to make things easier. As for watermakers, where are you going to go. The freshwater tankage on that boat should hold you for several days. Watermakers are very expensive and use lots of power. So my thought is if you need one of those, you need the genset. The two units installed could be 15 grand. You may be able to sneak extra water tanks into that boat, and it would be a whole lot cheaper. The 380 is a nice boat and she’ll serve you well. Enjoy, Chris
38 IN CHICAGO
GREG: SINCE YOU ARE FROM CHICAGO,I'M MAKING AN ASSUMPTION THAT YOU MAY BE DEALING WITH THE FULLBRIGHTS (TIM?). IF THAT IS TRUE, YOU SHOULD BE IN GOOD HANDS,AS WE BOUGHT OUR 36 FROM THEM. THEY ARE VERY SUPPORTAVE OF CATALINA OWNERS AND ARE KNOWLEDGEABLE AND HELPFUL. THE SHOULD BE ABLE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS AND OFFER ADD ON EQUIPMENT. THERE IS A LARGE FAMILY OF CATALINA OWNERS ON SOUTHERN LAKE MICHIGAN, OR MOST OF THE LAKE, WHO WILL BE ALSO GLAD TO ANSWER ANY QURSTIONS. THERE IS A FLEET IN CHICAGO AND ALSO ONE IN MICHIGAN. BE SURE TO CHECK OUT THE MAINSHEET MAGAZINE, THE CATALINA OWNERS PERIODICAL,AS ITS A GREAT RESOURCE FOR INFORMATION ON ANYTHING TO DO WITH CATALINAS. HAPPY SAILING, BOB SCOTT SCOTTFREE
GREG: SINCE YOU ARE FROM CHICAGO,I'M MAKING AN ASSUMPTION THAT YOU MAY BE DEALING WITH THE FULLBRIGHTS (TIM?). IF THAT IS TRUE, YOU SHOULD BE IN GOOD HANDS,AS WE BOUGHT OUR 36 FROM THEM. THEY ARE VERY SUPPORTAVE OF CATALINA OWNERS AND ARE KNOWLEDGEABLE AND HELPFUL. THE SHOULD BE ABLE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS AND OFFER ADD ON EQUIPMENT. THERE IS A LARGE FAMILY OF CATALINA OWNERS ON SOUTHERN LAKE MICHIGAN, OR MOST OF THE LAKE, WHO WILL BE ALSO GLAD TO ANSWER ANY QURSTIONS. THERE IS A FLEET IN CHICAGO AND ALSO ONE IN MICHIGAN. BE SURE TO CHECK OUT THE MAINSHEET MAGAZINE, THE CATALINA OWNERS PERIODICAL,AS ITS A GREAT RESOURCE FOR INFORMATION ON ANYTHING TO DO WITH CATALINAS. HAPPY SAILING, BOB SCOTT SCOTTFREE
COMMISSIONING
Greg: Chris gave you excellent advice and I'll only elaborate a little. We are commissioning a Catalina 400 here on the Chesapeake Bay and have found that you have to ASK EVERYTHING!!! Leave absolutely nothing to chance and never expect the dealer to do something unless you ask for it. As for bottom paint, remember that if you ask for a better grade of paint than they usually put on (yards are notorious at using really cheap paint), you will incur an "up" charge. DON'T LET THEM GOUGE YOU ON THIS! Check around and find out what the paint you want costs and don't let them charge you a penny more than the difference between the retail cost of their usual paint and what you want. As for extras such as electronics, canvas, etc., only you can decide what is best for your sailing needs. Remember that, just like a car dealer, boat dealers make a lot of money on the "add-ons" and you may do a lot better by installing a lot of the extras on your own or having a local shop do the job w/ you purchasing the stuff. I bought most of the electronics at West Marine using the "new owner" purchase plan (significant discount-close to wholesale) and hired a marine electronics shop I trusted to do the install. I figure I saved between 20-30% from what the dealer was asking for the very same equipment. Plus, buying the stuff myself, I got exactly what I wanted, not what the dealer happened to have or could make the most profit from. I don't want to sound like I've had a bad time with my dealer. Not at all. We both recognize our respective jobs. His is to maximize profits while delivering a quality product. Mine is to minimize my cash outlay while getting as much for my hard earned money as I can. So far it's worked well and we are both happy. Good luck and smooth sailing! Tim Leighton (S/V "Magic")
Greg: Chris gave you excellent advice and I'll only elaborate a little. We are commissioning a Catalina 400 here on the Chesapeake Bay and have found that you have to ASK EVERYTHING!!! Leave absolutely nothing to chance and never expect the dealer to do something unless you ask for it. As for bottom paint, remember that if you ask for a better grade of paint than they usually put on (yards are notorious at using really cheap paint), you will incur an "up" charge. DON'T LET THEM GOUGE YOU ON THIS! Check around and find out what the paint you want costs and don't let them charge you a penny more than the difference between the retail cost of their usual paint and what you want. As for extras such as electronics, canvas, etc., only you can decide what is best for your sailing needs. Remember that, just like a car dealer, boat dealers make a lot of money on the "add-ons" and you may do a lot better by installing a lot of the extras on your own or having a local shop do the job w/ you purchasing the stuff. I bought most of the electronics at West Marine using the "new owner" purchase plan (significant discount-close to wholesale) and hired a marine electronics shop I trusted to do the install. I figure I saved between 20-30% from what the dealer was asking for the very same equipment. Plus, buying the stuff myself, I got exactly what I wanted, not what the dealer happened to have or could make the most profit from. I don't want to sound like I've had a bad time with my dealer. Not at all. We both recognize our respective jobs. His is to maximize profits while delivering a quality product. Mine is to minimize my cash outlay while getting as much for my hard earned money as I can. So far it's worked well and we are both happy. Good luck and smooth sailing! Tim Leighton (S/V "Magic")
Detail to watch out for on a brand new boat
I just finished a bottom job on my 1991 Catalina 34, and based on what I found, if I were buying a new boat today I would insist on specific wording in the purchase contract that guarantees that the mold release wax be properly removed, and the bottom be properly prepared, before bottom paint is applied. On my boat I found many places, as much as 15 to 20% of the bottom surface where the bottom paint was just spontaneously peeling off right down to the gelcoat. This can be a very insidious problem because (outside of areas that are already peeled off) the bottom paint looks sound when you haul it out, and in a quick-turnaround bottom job there is a tendency to paint over the old paint and get the boat back in the water as soon as possible. What you end up with is multiple layers of bottom paint which are adhering well to each other, but are very loosely attached, or not attached at all, to the underlying gelcoat. I don't know whether this would be considered a manufacturing defect or a commissioning error, but if you are in the process of buying a brand new boat you should be able to make sure somebody does this right. I'll try to include a picture of one of my peeled patches. It looks like the picture upload worked, so I'll add a little detail. All around the perimeter of this bare patch, the surrounding paint is very sound, well attached, and was very difficult to remove. I ended up removing all the paint because I found several places where previous bottom jobs (done by commercial boatyard staff) had included sanding the bare patches and "feathering in" the border between sound paint and bare gelcoat. That suggested to me that it is really impossible to tell by looking at a square foot of bottom paint whether it is really perfectly sound and 100% attached, or just attached around the edges and held together by the multiple layers of bottom paint bonded to each other. This suspicion was confirmed when I applied chemical paint remover to areas that looked sound. In some cases it took multiple applications of the remover, and lots of scraping, to remove well-adhered paint. In other areas, where the paint looked completely sound, the paint remover immediately caused the paint to split, curl up, and fall off due to its own weight without any scraping at all. This was one hell of a job and I hope I never have to do it again. It would have been unnecessary if the mold wax had been properly removed in the first place. Good luck with your purchase. Mark
I just finished a bottom job on my 1991 Catalina 34, and based on what I found, if I were buying a new boat today I would insist on specific wording in the purchase contract that guarantees that the mold release wax be properly removed, and the bottom be properly prepared, before bottom paint is applied. On my boat I found many places, as much as 15 to 20% of the bottom surface where the bottom paint was just spontaneously peeling off right down to the gelcoat. This can be a very insidious problem because (outside of areas that are already peeled off) the bottom paint looks sound when you haul it out, and in a quick-turnaround bottom job there is a tendency to paint over the old paint and get the boat back in the water as soon as possible. What you end up with is multiple layers of bottom paint which are adhering well to each other, but are very loosely attached, or not attached at all, to the underlying gelcoat. I don't know whether this would be considered a manufacturing defect or a commissioning error, but if you are in the process of buying a brand new boat you should be able to make sure somebody does this right. I'll try to include a picture of one of my peeled patches. It looks like the picture upload worked, so I'll add a little detail. All around the perimeter of this bare patch, the surrounding paint is very sound, well attached, and was very difficult to remove. I ended up removing all the paint because I found several places where previous bottom jobs (done by commercial boatyard staff) had included sanding the bare patches and "feathering in" the border between sound paint and bare gelcoat. That suggested to me that it is really impossible to tell by looking at a square foot of bottom paint whether it is really perfectly sound and 100% attached, or just attached around the edges and held together by the multiple layers of bottom paint bonded to each other. This suspicion was confirmed when I applied chemical paint remover to areas that looked sound. In some cases it took multiple applications of the remover, and lots of scraping, to remove well-adhered paint. In other areas, where the paint looked completely sound, the paint remover immediately caused the paint to split, curl up, and fall off due to its own weight without any scraping at all. This was one hell of a job and I hope I never have to do it again. It would have been unnecessary if the mold wax had been properly removed in the first place. Good luck with your purchase. Mark
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New Boat bottoms
Greg, I don't think that you will have the issues mark spoke of. The new Catalina's have a Vinylester barrier coat on the bottom. This is applied after the boat is removed from the mold. There is no release wax on this surface. This is how Catalina ups the blister warranty to 5 years. That said, my dealer was overly optomistic about the amount of wax on the hull, and told me not to worry about waxing the first season. Quite frankly, that's BullSh#t! GEt some wax on her ass soom as may be done. It's cheap, and can't hurt. I found it difficult to clean some stains off the boat this spring, they came off but would have been easier had there been wax on there. I used the 3M ultra wax, it looks nice, we'll see how it hold up. Regards, Chris
Greg, I don't think that you will have the issues mark spoke of. The new Catalina's have a Vinylester barrier coat on the bottom. This is applied after the boat is removed from the mold. There is no release wax on this surface. This is how Catalina ups the blister warranty to 5 years. That said, my dealer was overly optomistic about the amount of wax on the hull, and told me not to worry about waxing the first season. Quite frankly, that's BullSh#t! GEt some wax on her ass soom as may be done. It's cheap, and can't hurt. I found it difficult to clean some stains off the boat this spring, they came off but would have been easier had there been wax on there. I used the 3M ultra wax, it looks nice, we'll see how it hold up. Regards, Chris
I heard different about the vinylester
When I visited the Catalina factory in the summer of 1999, I was told that after the gelcoat was sprayed into the mold, the first couple of laminations use vinylester resin as a barrier coat (instead of polyester resin). My 1999 model year boat confirms this. My new hull still had mold release wax that was removed before the bottom paint was applied. One additional note, my local dealer told me that it is likely the factory used polyester resin for the laminations on both my centerboard and rudder instead of vinylester resin. This would seem to explain how after almost four years my hull is blister free but my rudder and centerboard are not. I'm curious, who told you that vinylester resin was applied to the hull after it was removed from the mold? Before we make our next move up (likely from a C250 to a C36), I'd like to clarify this.
When I visited the Catalina factory in the summer of 1999, I was told that after the gelcoat was sprayed into the mold, the first couple of laminations use vinylester resin as a barrier coat (instead of polyester resin). My 1999 model year boat confirms this. My new hull still had mold release wax that was removed before the bottom paint was applied. One additional note, my local dealer told me that it is likely the factory used polyester resin for the laminations on both my centerboard and rudder instead of vinylester resin. This would seem to explain how after almost four years my hull is blister free but my rudder and centerboard are not. I'm curious, who told you that vinylester resin was applied to the hull after it was removed from the mold? Before we make our next move up (likely from a C250 to a C36), I'd like to clarify this.
Mark, Chris, et.al. You MUST still have the new
Bottom prepared very well before applying the bottom paint. Even on the newer Catalina's. I don't know *what* is on the hull but I know of more than one boat (1999 and 2000 Catalina) where the hull was not prepped properly and the 1st years initial paint started flaking off. BTW Fixing Both these boats were covered by Dealers that sold the boats
Bottom prepared very well before applying the bottom paint. Even on the newer Catalina's. I don't know *what* is on the hull but I know of more than one boat (1999 and 2000 Catalina) where the hull was not prepped properly and the 1st years initial paint started flaking off. BTW Fixing Both these boats were covered by Dealers that sold the boats
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