I just learned that I'll be moving to San Francisco early next year. I've started looking at slips and I see the good news is slips are more readily available than they are in San Diego. I'm sure there are many things that I should know and don't about San Francisco. Like is there a preferred area for a marina other than what's closest to home? Thoughts on the up-wind vs. down-wind slip? Do marinas have generally have the facility to put your boat in or do you have to work with a dedicated boatyard? Anything else that you care to share is appreciated. Thanks. Bill
- Status
San Francisco
Bill, To answer the easy questions first. Most marinas will not have the facilities to haul the boat. there may be one or two, but I'm not sure which ones. We have always hauled at a dedicated boatyard. In our case, Nelsons and KKMI, but there are others. The bay is large and the options for sailing conditions are numerous. If you want to get to the heart of the bay sailing, then you will want to locate accordingly. Sailing or motoring up and back from very far down the peninsula could take a pretty good chunk of a sailing day. Up wind or downwind might be more of an issue in the east bay (Berkeley or Emeryville). The summer wind gets going through there and if you spend a lot of time on the back of the boat while in the slip, it could matter to you. We live in the Napa valley, but keep our boat(s) in Alameda. It might make sense for you to schedule some time up here taking a look at the options before you commit. What size boat? Are you planning on sailing it up? Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Bill, To answer the easy questions first. Most marinas will not have the facilities to haul the boat. there may be one or two, but I'm not sure which ones. We have always hauled at a dedicated boatyard. In our case, Nelsons and KKMI, but there are others. The bay is large and the options for sailing conditions are numerous. If you want to get to the heart of the bay sailing, then you will want to locate accordingly. Sailing or motoring up and back from very far down the peninsula could take a pretty good chunk of a sailing day. Up wind or downwind might be more of an issue in the east bay (Berkeley or Emeryville). The summer wind gets going through there and if you spend a lot of time on the back of the boat while in the slip, it could matter to you. We live in the Napa valley, but keep our boat(s) in Alameda. It might make sense for you to schedule some time up here taking a look at the options before you commit. What size boat? Are you planning on sailing it up? Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
You need to toss Santana
Bill, you may not have bothered reading Latitude 38 because your own area has Santana magazine...but you probably haven't read it with SF as a homebase in mind. It seems like even the fish read L38. They have an annual article on the Bay's different regions, marinas, yards, etc. and also their monthly coverage will quickly begin to give you a sense for the nature of one area over another. I think Dan's suggestion about visiting the area is excellent and I'd recommend you drop in on the L38 folks and pepper them with a few of your initial observations and invite them to comment, too. (They never seem at a loss to comment...).<g> Also, I think Dan's two yard references (Nelson's and KKMI) were right on target. (Shoot, maybe you should drop in on Dan!) Jack
Bill, you may not have bothered reading Latitude 38 because your own area has Santana magazine...but you probably haven't read it with SF as a homebase in mind. It seems like even the fish read L38. They have an annual article on the Bay's different regions, marinas, yards, etc. and also their monthly coverage will quickly begin to give you a sense for the nature of one area over another. I think Dan's suggestion about visiting the area is excellent and I'd recommend you drop in on the L38 folks and pepper them with a few of your initial observations and invite them to comment, too. (They never seem at a loss to comment...).<g> Also, I think Dan's two yard references (Nelson's and KKMI) were right on target. (Shoot, maybe you should drop in on Dan!) Jack
Preferred Area
Most, though certainly not all, of the sailing activity happens in what is generally called the "Cental Bay", roughly bounded by the three bridges (Golden Gate, Bay, and Richmond-San Rafael). Harbors abound around the edges, with most of the available space down the Oakland estuary (between Oakland and Alameda) and the Richmond area. The choice really depends on where you're going to live/work, and what type of weather you want to keep your boat in. Being from Stockton in the Central Valley, I like to keep my boat in the "Richmond Riviera" when I have it on the Bay, as it's in the lee of Angel Island, and consequently sees less fog and less of those double-reef 25-30K afternoon winds that Berkeley and Emeryville see. It's also less of a drive from home, and I don't need to cross any bridges. Welcome to the best sailing venue in the world!
Most, though certainly not all, of the sailing activity happens in what is generally called the "Cental Bay", roughly bounded by the three bridges (Golden Gate, Bay, and Richmond-San Rafael). Harbors abound around the edges, with most of the available space down the Oakland estuary (between Oakland and Alameda) and the Richmond area. The choice really depends on where you're going to live/work, and what type of weather you want to keep your boat in. Being from Stockton in the Central Valley, I like to keep my boat in the "Richmond Riviera" when I have it on the Bay, as it's in the lee of Angel Island, and consequently sees less fog and less of those double-reef 25-30K afternoon winds that Berkeley and Emeryville see. It's also less of a drive from home, and I don't need to cross any bridges. Welcome to the best sailing venue in the world!
SF Bay sailing
Latitude 38 is an excellent periodical, which covers marinas, racing, laws, trends and plenty of industry advertising. Serious sailing (and most racing venues) takes place in the 'slot'. It's an area where the Pacific’s west wind funnels between Pt Bonita and Pt Lobos through the Golden Gate (this sets up a >3:1 reduction in area for the Pacific winds to enter the bay, a venturi affect). If the wind is blowing 8-10 knots outside the Gate, it has to increase its velocity to 30 knots to get all that air between the bridge ends. Once inside the Gate, the slot is bordered by San Francisco's city front and the Bay Bridge to the South, and an imaginary line from Sausalito to Fleming Point for a northern side. In the summer months, the slot offers consistent 20 knot+ winds in the afternoon. Coupled with an ebb tide, you can have surface conditions exceeding anything outside the Gate. Good news- no swells. After October, the winds can range from 15-0 knots unless there are storms. This lasts until April. San Francisco's city front offers a number of large marinas (400-700 slips) each typically managing a lengthy waiting list. The marina at Pier 39 is privately owned, has 440 slips (smallest is 36') usually has availability, but you have to contend with Blue & Gold fleet wakes, the largest tourist crowds in SF and fingers requiring the agility of an Olympic balancing beam artist. There is only one boat yard in the area called San Francisco Boat Works, which is near the new Giants stadium. On the North side, Sausalito, and Tiburon flank Richardson Bay, which has a string of marinas along the lee side of the Marin Peninsula. To the East, Richmond, Berkeley and Emeryville marinas line the windward side of East Bay. All of these locations offer only a few minutes for you and your crew to prepare for some of the best, most predictable winds in the world, not to mention the sights. Consequently, slip fees are highest in these locations. Immediately south of the Bay Bridge, to the east, is the Oakland Estuary, which separates Oakland from Alameda Island. Along both sides of this waterway is the bay's highest concentration of marina and services. Commute time to the bay [entrance] ranges from 15-45 minutes depending on marina location, current and traffic. The South bay area has marinas scattered along both its sides, the farthest being Alviso where the South Bay Yacht Club, founded in 1888, is located. Obviously, all these locations offer lots of protected water, more sun, and plenty of events, however, if the slot’s winds are what floats-yer-boat, the farther you’re located from it, the longer the voyage to enjoy it.
Latitude 38 is an excellent periodical, which covers marinas, racing, laws, trends and plenty of industry advertising. Serious sailing (and most racing venues) takes place in the 'slot'. It's an area where the Pacific’s west wind funnels between Pt Bonita and Pt Lobos through the Golden Gate (this sets up a >3:1 reduction in area for the Pacific winds to enter the bay, a venturi affect). If the wind is blowing 8-10 knots outside the Gate, it has to increase its velocity to 30 knots to get all that air between the bridge ends. Once inside the Gate, the slot is bordered by San Francisco's city front and the Bay Bridge to the South, and an imaginary line from Sausalito to Fleming Point for a northern side. In the summer months, the slot offers consistent 20 knot+ winds in the afternoon. Coupled with an ebb tide, you can have surface conditions exceeding anything outside the Gate. Good news- no swells. After October, the winds can range from 15-0 knots unless there are storms. This lasts until April. San Francisco's city front offers a number of large marinas (400-700 slips) each typically managing a lengthy waiting list. The marina at Pier 39 is privately owned, has 440 slips (smallest is 36') usually has availability, but you have to contend with Blue & Gold fleet wakes, the largest tourist crowds in SF and fingers requiring the agility of an Olympic balancing beam artist. There is only one boat yard in the area called San Francisco Boat Works, which is near the new Giants stadium. On the North side, Sausalito, and Tiburon flank Richardson Bay, which has a string of marinas along the lee side of the Marin Peninsula. To the East, Richmond, Berkeley and Emeryville marinas line the windward side of East Bay. All of these locations offer only a few minutes for you and your crew to prepare for some of the best, most predictable winds in the world, not to mention the sights. Consequently, slip fees are highest in these locations. Immediately south of the Bay Bridge, to the east, is the Oakland Estuary, which separates Oakland from Alameda Island. Along both sides of this waterway is the bay's highest concentration of marina and services. Commute time to the bay [entrance] ranges from 15-45 minutes depending on marina location, current and traffic. The South bay area has marinas scattered along both its sides, the farthest being Alviso where the South Bay Yacht Club, founded in 1888, is located. Obviously, all these locations offer lots of protected water, more sun, and plenty of events, however, if the slot’s winds are what floats-yer-boat, the farther you’re located from it, the longer the voyage to enjoy it.
Books
Bill There are many free publications about the Bay. Buy Kimball Livingston's "Sailing the Bay," best ever book about what you need to know. Also, berthing will depend on where you end up living. You'll want to sail under the bridges, not drive over them! Welcome. Stu
Bill There are many free publications about the Bay. Buy Kimball Livingston's "Sailing the Bay," best ever book about what you need to know. Also, berthing will depend on where you end up living. You'll want to sail under the bridges, not drive over them! Welcome. Stu
Thanks
Thanks guys. Good info. Yes I did get a copy of Lat38 somewhere and found it really interesting but it made me a bit concerned with the articles about all the potential interaction with very large ships. Calico Dragon is a C-320 and she will arrive via truck. I don't believe this is the season to move her by sailing up. We should have a house hunting trip and intend to check out marinas at the same time. I expect I'll be looking for more advice when we all actually get there and get out on the water. Thanks and Merry Christmas. Bill
Thanks guys. Good info. Yes I did get a copy of Lat38 somewhere and found it really interesting but it made me a bit concerned with the articles about all the potential interaction with very large ships. Calico Dragon is a C-320 and she will arrive via truck. I don't believe this is the season to move her by sailing up. We should have a house hunting trip and intend to check out marinas at the same time. I expect I'll be looking for more advice when we all actually get there and get out on the water. Thanks and Merry Christmas. Bill
Big Ships
Bill The whole thing with big ships was blown way out of proportion. Some yahoo wrote in a few months ago being stupid, and this is just the remaining reaction. There is a VTS here - vessel traffic system - on Channel 14 VHF, very useful for tracking ships. Read Livingston's book and it'll make it sound simple. Not a problem, just stay out of their way. Hope you and your boat have a good trip up. Stu
Bill The whole thing with big ships was blown way out of proportion. Some yahoo wrote in a few months ago being stupid, and this is just the remaining reaction. There is a VTS here - vessel traffic system - on Channel 14 VHF, very useful for tracking ships. Read Livingston's book and it'll make it sound simple. Not a problem, just stay out of their way. Hope you and your boat have a good trip up. Stu
Common sense rules with the ships
As Stu says, it's not normally a problem. The ships have definite channels they stay in (although their "channels" comprise much of the Central Bay). Just keep your eyes open (assuming you can see at all-SF Bay can have REAL BAD fog you know). Be aware and keep the 1st rule in mind. The bigger boat ALWAYS has the right of way!
As Stu says, it's not normally a problem. The ships have definite channels they stay in (although their "channels" comprise much of the Central Bay). Just keep your eyes open (assuming you can see at all-SF Bay can have REAL BAD fog you know). Be aware and keep the 1st rule in mind. The bigger boat ALWAYS has the right of way!
More on SF Bay
Where are you planning to locate to when you move up here? Bridge traffic is a hassle (and expensive) so I’d pick a marina where you don’t have to cross too many bridges. I know that Marina Bay in Richmond has slips available and there should be something available down the Oakland Estuary. The South Bay marinas are either clustered around San Francisco Airport or are located in shallow water areas. It can take a couple of hours to transit from those spots to the central Bay. Mariner’s Boatyard in Alameda “splashes” new C32’s for the local broker. Both Svendson’s, and Nelson’s are on Alameda Island, and also take land deliveries. KKMI in Richmond, can splash too, but they are more oriented towards the racing set. I’m not that familiar with boatyards in Marin County, but I know several people there who bring their boats down to Alameda for haul outs. Ship traffic isn’t going to be much more of a problem than in San Diego. In short order you will be able to recognize the different shipping lines and the terminals they belong to. It’s the $@&#! tour boats that you have to watch out for.
Where are you planning to locate to when you move up here? Bridge traffic is a hassle (and expensive) so I’d pick a marina where you don’t have to cross too many bridges. I know that Marina Bay in Richmond has slips available and there should be something available down the Oakland Estuary. The South Bay marinas are either clustered around San Francisco Airport or are located in shallow water areas. It can take a couple of hours to transit from those spots to the central Bay. Mariner’s Boatyard in Alameda “splashes” new C32’s for the local broker. Both Svendson’s, and Nelson’s are on Alameda Island, and also take land deliveries. KKMI in Richmond, can splash too, but they are more oriented towards the racing set. I’m not that familiar with boatyards in Marin County, but I know several people there who bring their boats down to Alameda for haul outs. Ship traffic isn’t going to be much more of a problem than in San Diego. In short order you will be able to recognize the different shipping lines and the terminals they belong to. It’s the $@&#! tour boats that you have to watch out for.
www.latitude38.com
Totally agree with what everybody else has said about reading Latitude 38. It's the best magazine there is! Period. I even get it up here. However, there is also much more information available at their web site at www.latitude38.com. This is mostly *in addition to* the printed magazine!
Totally agree with what everybody else has said about reading Latitude 38. It's the best magazine there is! Period. I even get it up here. However, there is also much more information available at their web site at www.latitude38.com. This is mostly *in addition to* the printed magazine!
brush up on reefing
you're going to have a lot more breeze up here than you did down there. you'll wear out a pair of foulies four times as fast as in San Diego. as far as local knowledge is concerned, in the central bay it's "clockwise for comfort." if you like it warm, look into Redwood City or Sausalito. There's great sailing in those waters despite what the central bay boys tell you.
you're going to have a lot more breeze up here than you did down there. you'll wear out a pair of foulies four times as fast as in San Diego. as far as local knowledge is concerned, in the central bay it's "clockwise for comfort." if you like it warm, look into Redwood City or Sausalito. There's great sailing in those waters despite what the central bay boys tell you.
Welcome to the Windy City
If you are going to Marin County, Andersons can splash your boat. Lots of great suggestions in the post. I like Emery Cove because it is down hill comming home, in prevailing wind conditions, and allows imediate access to the most scenic sailing on the bay. As some have pointed out it is also where the wind lives. You will need your reefing gear in working order. Bonus is you can own the slip 'fee simple' at Emery Cove. You will need to collect a tide table and actually look at it. Currents under the Goldn Gate can be 5 or 6 knotts. The good news is you can pretty much choose your sailing conditions by where you sail in the bay. Also there are great places to go, such as Angle Island, Pier 39, Sausalito, or Tiburon. Although it will always be colder than you are used to, the sailing and scenery will make up for the chill
If you are going to Marin County, Andersons can splash your boat. Lots of great suggestions in the post. I like Emery Cove because it is down hill comming home, in prevailing wind conditions, and allows imediate access to the most scenic sailing on the bay. As some have pointed out it is also where the wind lives. You will need your reefing gear in working order. Bonus is you can own the slip 'fee simple' at Emery Cove. You will need to collect a tide table and actually look at it. Currents under the Goldn Gate can be 5 or 6 knotts. The good news is you can pretty much choose your sailing conditions by where you sail in the bay. Also there are great places to go, such as Angle Island, Pier 39, Sausalito, or Tiburon. Although it will always be colder than you are used to, the sailing and scenery will make up for the chill
And be sure you see...
...the Bay Model in Sausalito. It's a hydraulic model of the Bay and Delta covering 1+ acres. You'll get a much better feeling for the effects of the tides after visiting. And before you think about taking a mooring at Ayala Cove on Angel Island when there's any tidal current running, do it as crew on somebody else's boat first. Otherwise all the others in the cove will get a good laugh at your expense. And be sure to do a port/starboard thing with the seaplanes landing and taking off from Pier 39!
...the Bay Model in Sausalito. It's a hydraulic model of the Bay and Delta covering 1+ acres. You'll get a much better feeling for the effects of the tides after visiting. And before you think about taking a mooring at Ayala Cove on Angel Island when there's any tidal current running, do it as crew on somebody else's boat first. Otherwise all the others in the cove will get a good laugh at your expense. And be sure to do a port/starboard thing with the seaplanes landing and taking off from Pier 39!
Thans Again
Thanks again to all of you for the info. I suspect I maybe coming acrooos you when I get settled. We're not sure where we'll be living but as I'll be working at SFO airport I'm guessing it will be that direction. As bad as crossig a bridge may be to get to the boat, to do it daily will be much less desireable. Checking out a number of marinas during my house hunting trip is definately in order. See you on the water.
Thanks again to all of you for the info. I suspect I maybe coming acrooos you when I get settled. We're not sure where we'll be living but as I'll be working at SFO airport I'm guessing it will be that direction. As bad as crossig a bridge may be to get to the boat, to do it daily will be much less desireable. Checking out a number of marinas during my house hunting trip is definately in order. See you on the water.
SFO proximity to marinas
If you will be working at SFO I strongly suggest (based on experience) to look for a residence and Marina on the peninsula (the SF side) rather than the East Bay. I haven't lived there for about 4 years, but traffic is just a nightmare if you choose to drive. Here is a marina very close to SFO. It looks nice although I've never been there. It looks to be about 5 miles north of SFO. http://www.smharbor.com/oysterpoint/index.htm Best of luck in your move. Luke Mass Transit Option: http://www.bart.gov
If you will be working at SFO I strongly suggest (based on experience) to look for a residence and Marina on the peninsula (the SF side) rather than the East Bay. I haven't lived there for about 4 years, but traffic is just a nightmare if you choose to drive. Here is a marina very close to SFO. It looks nice although I've never been there. It looks to be about 5 miles north of SFO. http://www.smharbor.com/oysterpoint/index.htm Best of luck in your move. Luke Mass Transit Option: http://www.bart.gov
More Local Info
Sierra and Oyster Pt. Marinas are located north of the end of the runways at SFO. Jets taking off do a climbing turn to the Southwest, so while you still hear them, the noise isn’t too bad. BART only has a terminal right at SFO and the next one is in Daley City and is not an option. The predominant wind is out of the San Bruno Gap (to the southwest) and it can be quite windy during summer afternoons and winter storms. You will have to drive and because they are out on a point, there isn’t any services or restaurants within easy walking distance. Neither marina has much protection so wind is an issue while docking and casting off. IMHO, Sierra Pt. has much more of a cross wind docking problem, but you have to be careful at Oyster Pt too. Both marinas share a couple miles of channel before sailable water. It isn’t the deepest channel and I get a bit nervous during low tides. This portion of the Bay has the San Bruno Shoal in the middle of it so you need to sail inside the shipping channel until you get nearer to Hunters Pt. Both marinas have really fun and sociable yacht clubs. Further south is Coyote Pt. Marina which is located inside a really nice county park. The fate of this marina is somewhat up in the air pending a proposed extension of the airport runways and their surrounding security zone. It also has a silting problem. South of the San Mateo Bridge is the Redwood City Marina. There is a shipping channel dredged all the way to it but the surrounding water is very shallow and your sailing will be mostly constrained to the channel. Further south, Palo Alto and Alviso are yacht clubs in pretty much name only. I don’t think that it is possible for a fixed keel boat to get anywhere close them anymore.
Sierra and Oyster Pt. Marinas are located north of the end of the runways at SFO. Jets taking off do a climbing turn to the Southwest, so while you still hear them, the noise isn’t too bad. BART only has a terminal right at SFO and the next one is in Daley City and is not an option. The predominant wind is out of the San Bruno Gap (to the southwest) and it can be quite windy during summer afternoons and winter storms. You will have to drive and because they are out on a point, there isn’t any services or restaurants within easy walking distance. Neither marina has much protection so wind is an issue while docking and casting off. IMHO, Sierra Pt. has much more of a cross wind docking problem, but you have to be careful at Oyster Pt too. Both marinas share a couple miles of channel before sailable water. It isn’t the deepest channel and I get a bit nervous during low tides. This portion of the Bay has the San Bruno Shoal in the middle of it so you need to sail inside the shipping channel until you get nearer to Hunters Pt. Both marinas have really fun and sociable yacht clubs. Further south is Coyote Pt. Marina which is located inside a really nice county park. The fate of this marina is somewhat up in the air pending a proposed extension of the airport runways and their surrounding security zone. It also has a silting problem. South of the San Mateo Bridge is the Redwood City Marina. There is a shipping channel dredged all the way to it but the surrounding water is very shallow and your sailing will be mostly constrained to the channel. Further south, Palo Alto and Alviso are yacht clubs in pretty much name only. I don’t think that it is possible for a fixed keel boat to get anywhere close them anymore.
- Status