What should i expect of a 34' 35 year old $25k boat?

[kampuniform]

Think in terms of a 35-year-old automobile, kept in less than optimal conditions, and you will not be too far off the mark.

When I was selling my boat, the hopefuls were wringing their hands in utter misery, paranoid about everything on the vessel not being in prime condition .

I’d have to remind them that for <$28K, you’re not buying perfect peace of mind, and there is no assurance in a 30+ year-old vessel that major problems are not lingering on the horizon.

Things go wrong on boats all the time. On most older boats, the interval between repairs shrinks with age and use.

I do all of my own repairs, so this is not a cost deterrent; however, maintenance and repairs do become wearying at times.

 

[kampuniform]

Oh, and unless your surveyor is omniscient, don’t expect them to unearth all the issues on a boat.

 

[DrJudyB]

Oh, and unless your surveyor is omniscient, don’t expect them to unearth all the issues on a boat.

Unless you take every old rope clutch and winch apart and inspect every sheave in the mast, you don't know what you might need to replace soon. Old stuff breaks sooner than new stuff. That's true of winches, blocks, rope clutches, cam cleats, hoses, bearings etc. Stainless in aluminum causes galvanic corrosion.

My boat is now 27 years old, and this past year we replaced all new sheaves in the mast (two seized up), half of the rope clutches , rebuilt the winches (we were lucky to find new parts for the obsolete Lewmar self tailers), and replaced the severely corroded traveller car. The first year I owned it, we replaced almost every block on the boat.

Judy

 

[Gunni]

You find yourself a well-recommended old-hand NAMS/SAMS surveyor, you will find someone who knows every spot to inspect on a old Pearson. They have heard and seen all the horror stories. Put him on the seatrial and he'll dial you right in. If major issues are identified you should have the authority to retain an engine mechanic, rigger, or composites guy to evaluate if the deal is to go forward. And a respected surveyor is your best insulation from smarmy salesmen, prideful owners, and your own clouded judgment.

You should start the process by asking to see the maintenance records and find out who works on the boat. Look at the wiring, does it look professionally done? A seller who comes up short on any of those items should not be trusted regarding the condition of the boat.

 

[MitchM]

1/ get an engine survey including oil analysis, exhaust elbow , exhaust system, engine mounts inspection. a 12K engine replacement in a yer would not make this boat a good deal. also check trans, clutch,rgearbox and p shaft alignment while your mechanic is at it.

 

[JRT]

I think the OP has another thread about the centerboard being non functional by the owner. At that point I'd walk away.

 

[hawk232]

Yes, the centerboard has been bolted in place. Any offer would be contingent on a survey as well as the centerboard being made functional.

 

[DougM]

Clearly there is variation between insurers regarding survey requirements. My insurer required a survey when my boat reached age 10, and then requires a survey every 5 years thereafter. I had one claim (for a dismasting) and after getting repair estimates, received a check within a month.
My policy is for an agreed value and my premiums have not increased significantly. Because I am from the north where the water gets “hard” during months ending in “r”, the policy stipulates that the boat has to be stored on land. The policy is still active for the months the boat is stored and satisfies the yard requirement that the boat be insured while in storage.

A curious anomaly as a result of the dismasting and subsequent claim, my next homeowners insurance bill for my winter home in a different state with a different insurer literally doubled!
When I questioned it, they said it was because I had a “major claim” within that last year. Needless to say I found another insurance company that happens to be the same company that insures my boat and had no unusual increase in premium.

 

[Michael Davis]

requires a survey every 5 years thereafter.

Same with mine. I think that's pretty common and adds a little peace of mind that someone (you hope ) more knowledgable than you is taking a good look at your boat.

 

[jssailem]

Funny I think my renewal value was increased. I’ll have to check.

 

[John Nantz]

Buying a used boat is a balancing act and there are certain givens:
1. A boat that is several decades old is guaranteed to have issues, that’s a given. Heck, even a new boat can have issues for that matter.
2. Another given is the time, effort, and cost to find and buy a boat whether it is new or used.
3. Sailing seasons come and go, along with enjoyment of doing what you dream of.
4. You aren’t getting any younger and you can’t buy back time,
5. The cost for a new boat that size will be many times that of this used boat and probably not provide anywhere near the return on investment in the form of enjoyment.

From a seller’s perspective for an older boat, if the seller does a lot of his own maintenance and knows the ins-and-outs of maintenance, he’ll know what can be done, the cost and effort, and how important the work item is, and he’ll most likely know what the boat is really worth, at least a ballpark value.

If a buyer comes along and want’s to point out all the defects and then want’s to get a deduct for them, the seller likely won’t negotiate much ‘cuz, hey, it’s a used boat. If you find a major deficiency that was unknown then there’ll be some negotiating room and if not, then it’s a likely deal breaker.

All the while, though, the clock is ticking, the buyer is spending valuable life-time looking for other options. “Spending” valuable time out of one’s life that can’t be bought back.

Sure, a motor is expensive, sails are expensive, and a few other things, but replacing cracked or crazed plexiglass on hatches or something like that is work but not a big deal for the handyman boat owner. If you’re a boat owner now then, most likely, you already know how to do some of the fix-its.

It’s tough weighing the options and not all of them can be monetized.

Just think, the next step will be to sell your current “used” boat. In our case we decided to just keep our 16ft daysailer.

 

[FastOlson]

John makes some good points. I recall that we got a head start on looking for our 'final' Big Boat when we sold our prior 26 footer for full market value in 1993. It took us a year (!!) of searching before finding our present boat. We had money in the bank for that year... and that was an odd sensation!
We wanted certain design and construction features, and that limited us to the fewer "high end" builders. We lost a deal on good Ericson and passed up a Yamaha that was beyond our budget. Finally found a neglected Olson 34 down in the Bay area and had it trucked home. immediately replaced damaged forward hatch and all the fixed ports and did a massive cleanup on the interior. Added a furler. Bought some new sails. Replaced the leaking original rod vang, and rebuilt the hyd. back stay.
Etc.... Etc...

Still have that boat! Almost sold it a couple seasons ago, but after some discussion decided that we are a bit long in the tooth to go thru the whole upgrade process on another boat.
Last year saw new engine package and battery systems; new furler last month. Next comes a new dodger.

No great wisdom to impart.... but do try to buy a HIGH QUALITY boat. Most every system will need upgrading or replacement over the years, so Focus (like a proverbial laser) on the overall engineering, hull-to-deck joint, and keel attachment.
Fair winds, and happy hunting.

 

[Tally Ho]

I bought a 1996 Hunter 280 as my first boat. Well taken care of, low maintenance... but she was a little smaller than I wanted, and lacked “character”.

After 5 years, bought a 1988 O’Day 322. She was also well taken care of, but certainly takes more time and energy to keep her in tip top shape. That “character” comes at a cost.

But I am very happy with her.

Greg

 

[sailnoproblem]

Buying a used boat is a balancing act and there are certain givens:
1. A boat that is several decades old is guaranteed to have issues, that’s a given. Heck, even a new boat can have issues for that matter.
2. Another given is the time, effort, and cost to find and buy a boat whether it is new or used.
3. Sailing seasons come and go, along with enjoyment of doing what you dream of.
4. You aren’t getting any younger and you can’t buy back time,
5. The cost for a new boat that size will be many times that of this used boat and probably not provide anywhere near the return on investment in the form of enjoyment.

From a seller’s perspective for an older boat, if the seller does a lot of his own maintenance and knows the ins-and-outs of maintenance, he’ll know what can be done, the cost and effort, and how important the work item is, and he’ll most likely know what the boat is really worth, at least a ballpark value.

If a buyer comes along and want’s to point out all the defects and then want’s to get a deduct for them, the seller likely won’t negotiate much ‘cuz, hey, it’s a used boat. If you find a major deficiency that was unknown then there’ll be some negotiating room and if not, then it’s a likely deal breaker.

All the while, though, the clock is ticking, the buyer is spending valuable life-time looking for other options. “Spending” valuable time out of one’s life that can’t be bought back.

Sure, a motor is expensive, sails are expensive, and a few other things, but replacing cracked or crazed plexiglass on hatches or something like that is work but not a big deal for the handyman boat owner. If you’re a boat owner now then, most likely, you already know how to do some of the fix-its.

It’s tough weighing the options and not all of them can be monetized.

Just think, the next step will be to sell your current “used” boat. In our case we decided to just keep our 16ft daysailer.

Well stated, finally a post that in my opinion sum's up life and sailing. "Just Do It"

 

[hawk232]

I completely rebuilt my C22 (as well as other boats) including cutting up deck and replacing rot etc (there is a well documented post on here about it, search my name its called "when something little turns into something more"). Point being, I can handle any repair that would be necessary but obviously some are less desirable!

Looks like the boat is a no go. Let me re-phrase. The boat is doable, the seller is a no go. I looked over the boat again yesterday with my wife. Confirmed soft deck around 3 stanchions, confirmed that the owner drilled through the centerboard and keel to lock it in place (I cant find if the centerboard has a wood core). Finally, I asked him to pull a hankercheif of genoa out so I could inspect it and he sort of lost it. Started lecturing me about how "the process is supposed to go" and that I am supposed to quickly look the boat over then make an offer and AFTER that is when we go into a detailed look. That's not how I operate. How can I possibly give an honest valuation if I cant inspect critical components (like sails)? I didn't ask to hoist either sail, just for access to a patch of sail for brief inspection. so for now, the search continues!

 

[Justin_NSA]

I'm with you. He's going to have a hard time finding a buyer if he won't work with them. It's called "kicking the tires".

 

[jssailem]

That is a deal that was not meant to be. Perhaps the seller is hiding something. Perhaps the seller is just new to the process and is afraid to show his dirty laundry.
You are in the driver seat. Keep looking

 

[dlochner]

Be glad you didn't get this boat. No telling what else is wrong and you'd be out money for the surveyor.

You should be given a reasonable amount of time to inspect the boat by your self and with anyone you care to bring along. You should be able to access any part of the boat that does not require tools, i.e, you can't start disassembling the boat and removing panels, unless the owner gives you permission. Looking at sails, looking in lockers and drawers, opening cabinets and doors, lifting up cushions and checking storage areas, turning on lights and electronics, and so forth. Once you've done that you can negotiate an initial price, sign a contract to buy with the condition that the boat receives a satisfactory survey and place a deposit. One advantage of using a broker and not a private seller is the broker will handle all these details.

You may find this book, by Don Casey helpful, Inspecting the Aging Sailboat. He goes over what you need to look at and how to look at the boat for various issues.

And when you get to the survey time, don't be surprised. After spending several hours inspecting my current boat before making an offer, this happened: http://www.sv-secondstar.net/blog/second-star/6-deal-on

Good luck, keep on looking.

 

[hawk232]

Dave, that is a perfect example of why we pay surveyors!!

 

[dlochner]

Dave, that is a perfect example of why we pay surveyors!!

Boy, did I and the broker feel stupid after that survey.