Hi, i was just wondering what kind of sailboat is good for beginner. I know how to sail from Sunfishes and Hobie-Cats, and I thought it was finally time I graduate to one of the real deals. I am about 6'1", so decent head room in the cabin is a must. I've been looking at the Catalina 270s and other sailboats. Any other suggestions? Thanks.
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Start with a budget.
PC: Start with a budget (10k, 20k, 30k....100k). Then we will know where you can start.
PC: Start with a budget (10k, 20k, 30k....100k). Then we will know where you can start.
If you can find one...
Hello, If you can find one, and have a bit of money, or if you can find a 'bashed' one, try these... Being 6'1". and that seemingly being your primary concern, (do you drive older GM's, hehe), I would be prone to the two listed below... One, a masthead rigged Flicka from Pacific Seacraft, out of production, lot's made, lot's used on West Coast, there was a very good review in Best Boats by Ferenc Mate... Check your library... See http://www.pacificseacraft.com/cgi-bin/sitenav.php?2001 I would also recomend a magazine called 'Good Old Boat', think their website is same.com Second, I would also look at the smaller Nonsuch, it too had 6'1" headroom in a small una rigged boat, lot's of used, mainly around Great Lakes... See http://www.eastlandyachts.com/nonsuch.html Personally I would snatch at the Flicka, but there is a lot to be said for the una rigged 'TACKING, every one stay seated' Nonsuch... Have fun... SH. - herrons@telus.net
Hello, If you can find one, and have a bit of money, or if you can find a 'bashed' one, try these... Being 6'1". and that seemingly being your primary concern, (do you drive older GM's, hehe), I would be prone to the two listed below... One, a masthead rigged Flicka from Pacific Seacraft, out of production, lot's made, lot's used on West Coast, there was a very good review in Best Boats by Ferenc Mate... Check your library... See http://www.pacificseacraft.com/cgi-bin/sitenav.php?2001 I would also recomend a magazine called 'Good Old Boat', think their website is same.com Second, I would also look at the smaller Nonsuch, it too had 6'1" headroom in a small una rigged boat, lot's of used, mainly around Great Lakes... See http://www.eastlandyachts.com/nonsuch.html Personally I would snatch at the Flicka, but there is a lot to be said for the una rigged 'TACKING, every one stay seated' Nonsuch... Have fun... SH. - herrons@telus.net
Headroom
If you're considering boats under 30', the Hunter 26/260 is worth a look. The 26 was produced from 1994-97; the 260 is an updated version introduced in 1998 and still in production. Both have water ballast and a centerboard, but a fixed keel version (the 270) is also available. Plenty of headroom and interior volume for a 26 footer. It's a good transition from open cockpit daysailor to full blown cruiser. It has basic mechanical and electrical systems, which provide a chance to learn that aspect without being overwhelmed. Older models can be had for $15-20K; new ones are about twice that depending on options. This link is for the 26: http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/model.tpl?sku=30179116948415&fno=0&bts=T The one below is for the 260.
If you're considering boats under 30', the Hunter 26/260 is worth a look. The 26 was produced from 1994-97; the 260 is an updated version introduced in 1998 and still in production. Both have water ballast and a centerboard, but a fixed keel version (the 270) is also available. Plenty of headroom and interior volume for a 26 footer. It's a good transition from open cockpit daysailor to full blown cruiser. It has basic mechanical and electrical systems, which provide a chance to learn that aspect without being overwhelmed. Older models can be had for $15-20K; new ones are about twice that depending on options. This link is for the 26: http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/model.tpl?sku=30179116948415&fno=0&bts=T The one below is for the 260.
need more info
What kind of sailing do you hope to do? If day sailing and casual racing is what you dream of, than that will impact the type of boat. On the other hand, If you dream of sailing to exotic destinations and anchoring in some magical paradise, you will want a totally different boat. Of course there are boats that do both rather well, but like a lot of things in life, it comes down to compromises. Let us know your preferences and also where you live. You might just get invited for a sail on several different types of boats to help with your quest
What kind of sailing do you hope to do? If day sailing and casual racing is what you dream of, than that will impact the type of boat. On the other hand, If you dream of sailing to exotic destinations and anchoring in some magical paradise, you will want a totally different boat. Of course there are boats that do both rather well, but like a lot of things in life, it comes down to compromises. Let us know your preferences and also where you live. You might just get invited for a sail on several different types of boats to help with your quest
Good Taste Sean.
Sean: These are probably the two most expensive used boats on the market. A Flicka, unless it's trashed is about $30-80k. The Nonsuch is also not an inexpensive option.
Sean: These are probably the two most expensive used boats on the market. A Flicka, unless it's trashed is about $30-80k. The Nonsuch is also not an inexpensive option.
Actually...
What I'm really looking for is a leisure boat that I can sail around San Francisco Harbor... something that's not exactly racing-type, but fun nonetheless.
What I'm really looking for is a leisure boat that I can sail around San Francisco Harbor... something that's not exactly racing-type, but fun nonetheless.
Think forgiving
If you go with the Catalina you'll have plenty of company, and with judicious management of sailarea you'll do fine on SF bay. Based on accounts I've heard from others about the widely varied wind conditions of the bay, I'd go with a boat that is very forgiving. Ericsons come to mind as well as a newer Pearson. I think you'll get more performance out of the Pearson, but the Ericsons can kick up their heals in a blow, and have very good headroom. Good Luck.
If you go with the Catalina you'll have plenty of company, and with judicious management of sailarea you'll do fine on SF bay. Based on accounts I've heard from others about the widely varied wind conditions of the bay, I'd go with a boat that is very forgiving. Ericsons come to mind as well as a newer Pearson. I think you'll get more performance out of the Pearson, but the Ericsons can kick up their heals in a blow, and have very good headroom. Good Luck.
Hunter 30 would be a good choice.
P.C.: I would suggest you take a look at a Hunter 30 (1975-1983). You can pick them up for $14-20k. The later boats had larger engines. These are really an easy to sail boat. Some of them may have the rigging setup to go back to the cockpit. In my opinion you will look a while to find a better sailing boat than one of these in this price range. You can also look at a Catalina, lots of them in the bay too. Get a copy of Lat38 each month and look in there for a used boat. Once you find a boat that you like, make an offer and get a surveyor. You may want to find a sailor friend to help you look the boat over before you make an offer. A survey is going to cost you about $20/ft. PS: You can also look for used boats on the SailboatOwners websites.
P.C.: I would suggest you take a look at a Hunter 30 (1975-1983). You can pick them up for $14-20k. The later boats had larger engines. These are really an easy to sail boat. Some of them may have the rigging setup to go back to the cockpit. In my opinion you will look a while to find a better sailing boat than one of these in this price range. You can also look at a Catalina, lots of them in the bay too. Get a copy of Lat38 each month and look in there for a used boat. Once you find a boat that you like, make an offer and get a surveyor. You may want to find a sailor friend to help you look the boat over before you make an offer. A survey is going to cost you about $20/ft. PS: You can also look for used boats on the SailboatOwners websites.
Try searching
This website was a huge help for me as a comparable shopping list..it has a great detailed search engine that may help you in narrowing your focus. Check out Boats for sail. Good Luck!
This website was a huge help for me as a comparable shopping list..it has a great detailed search engine that may help you in narrowing your focus. Check out Boats for sail. Good Luck!
Wind-dough shopping?
One of my favorite places to browse, price and look at pictures of boats of all sizes and prices... and dream. (related link) Easy to search through almost 100,000 boats listed. Happy sails, MArk
One of my favorite places to browse, price and look at pictures of boats of all sizes and prices... and dream. (related link) Easy to search through almost 100,000 boats listed. Happy sails, MArk
1989 - 1993 Hunter 28
You will love this boat! May cost you around 25,000 but it is worth the 5 extra grand. The cabin layout is really nice and the walk through swim platform is a must have. I bought one 1.5 yrs ago and spend every weekend on the boat. Pound per dollar it is the most boat for the money. I would not buy an 80's boat, don't like the layout or trust the construction. I some ways they may be built better, but overall I think not!
You will love this boat! May cost you around 25,000 but it is worth the 5 extra grand. The cabin layout is really nice and the walk through swim platform is a must have. I bought one 1.5 yrs ago and spend every weekend on the boat. Pound per dollar it is the most boat for the money. I would not buy an 80's boat, don't like the layout or trust the construction. I some ways they may be built better, but overall I think not!
Cherubini Hunter's
Jim obviously has not heard of the Cherubini Hunters. These boats are classic plastic personified. Go to the Cherubini forum and ask how they like their boats. Very thick solid hulls, and a boat that was designed by the master. As Steve mentioned, the H-30 would be a good choice. With a budget of 20K, I would suggest looking for a boat for 15K and keep 5 for goodies, ie new gps, stereo, saftey gear, maybe a new furler, make sure you join Boat US and get their unlimited towing...especially if you get something other than a Cherubini Hunter
Jim obviously has not heard of the Cherubini Hunters. These boats are classic plastic personified. Go to the Cherubini forum and ask how they like their boats. Very thick solid hulls, and a boat that was designed by the master. As Steve mentioned, the H-30 would be a good choice. With a budget of 20K, I would suggest looking for a boat for 15K and keep 5 for goodies, ie new gps, stereo, saftey gear, maybe a new furler, make sure you join Boat US and get their unlimited towing...especially if you get something other than a Cherubini Hunter
ha-ha JimA.
Jim: I'd agree with you that a walk thru transom is nice, but I doubt that PC will ever need that in the SF bay. Water temps in the 50's and the air temps in the 60's don't lend themselves to the same type of requirement that most of us would be looking for. You are partially correct about the construction of the newer boats. They continue to use better materials and upgraded techniques. The gelcoat that they use today is superior to that of the 70-80's boats. The fiberglass preperation and layup is the same today as it has been since the beginning (this should cause an argument). The newer boat have vastly different chain plate construction which spreads the loads better than the older boats too. These older boats are stiffer than todays high aspect fractional rig, which is probably better for a boat that will see more days of 30+ kts and 10 kts. If you have not sailed a Cherubini you should try it sometime. I am impressed with their sailing ability. I also have to agree with you that the newer layouts are better. There is a lot of subjective items when you start looking for a boat (money being high on the list). When you get one of these older boats you are probably at the bottom of the depreciation curve. You are also going to be dealing with more repairs and maintenace issue, but that is the cost of boating. The conditions that you sail in become a major issue when you sail in the SF Bay (current, big chop, high winds and cold temps).
Jim: I'd agree with you that a walk thru transom is nice, but I doubt that PC will ever need that in the SF bay. Water temps in the 50's and the air temps in the 60's don't lend themselves to the same type of requirement that most of us would be looking for. You are partially correct about the construction of the newer boats. They continue to use better materials and upgraded techniques. The gelcoat that they use today is superior to that of the 70-80's boats. The fiberglass preperation and layup is the same today as it has been since the beginning (this should cause an argument). The newer boat have vastly different chain plate construction which spreads the loads better than the older boats too. These older boats are stiffer than todays high aspect fractional rig, which is probably better for a boat that will see more days of 30+ kts and 10 kts. If you have not sailed a Cherubini you should try it sometime. I am impressed with their sailing ability. I also have to agree with you that the newer layouts are better. There is a lot of subjective items when you start looking for a boat (money being high on the list). When you get one of these older boats you are probably at the bottom of the depreciation curve. You are also going to be dealing with more repairs and maintenace issue, but that is the cost of boating. The conditions that you sail in become a major issue when you sail in the SF Bay (current, big chop, high winds and cold temps).
Jim
You are correct about the walk through. I don't have one now but used to sell and service Hunters and that is one thing I miss on my boat. They are great for boarding from a dingy or swim ladder. Actually the construction is quite different on the newer boats. The newer layups generally have a much more even distribution of resin mix and they have vinylester resin which is more resistent to blisters. Some of the Cherubinis have a superior chainplate load spread than that of the second generation Hunters. The last generation have a similar attachment except it is at one point.
You are correct about the walk through. I don't have one now but used to sell and service Hunters and that is one thing I miss on my boat. They are great for boarding from a dingy or swim ladder. Actually the construction is quite different on the newer boats. The newer layups generally have a much more even distribution of resin mix and they have vinylester resin which is more resistent to blisters. Some of the Cherubinis have a superior chainplate load spread than that of the second generation Hunters. The last generation have a similar attachment except it is at one point.
A big step up
You might want to take a keelboat sailing class or look into joining a local sailing club or try and get a ride with someone who owns a sailboat in the local marina if you have only sailed on sunfishes and Hobie-cats. Going from sunfishes and Hobie-cats to a keel sailboat can be a big step up. Have you included the cost for slip fees, insurance and yearly maintenance for a your new sailboat in your budget? One of the mistakes a first time buyer does is getting the biggest sailboat possible for the money instead of looking at the total cost of owning a sailboat. Getting the largest possible size sailboat for the money usually means an older sailboat with higher slip fees with frequent maintenance up keep costs if you can’t perform some of the routine maintenance on the sailboat yourself. A trailer sailboat as your first sailboat might be the best option. The cost of owning a trailer sailboat is much less than a sailboat requiring a slip or a marina’s crane to hoist it off the trailer if it can’t be launched from a regular boat ramp. If the winds and chop in the bay is greater than your current sailing skills, you can always trailer your sailboat and look for calmer waters, you can’t do that if have a sailboat that’s too big to trailer. Production trailer sailboats from Hunter, Catalina, Precision, Seaward, West Wright Potter, Com-Pac, W.D. Schock, etc, might be a good choice for your first sailboat. Fair Winds. Clyde
You might want to take a keelboat sailing class or look into joining a local sailing club or try and get a ride with someone who owns a sailboat in the local marina if you have only sailed on sunfishes and Hobie-cats. Going from sunfishes and Hobie-cats to a keel sailboat can be a big step up. Have you included the cost for slip fees, insurance and yearly maintenance for a your new sailboat in your budget? One of the mistakes a first time buyer does is getting the biggest sailboat possible for the money instead of looking at the total cost of owning a sailboat. Getting the largest possible size sailboat for the money usually means an older sailboat with higher slip fees with frequent maintenance up keep costs if you can’t perform some of the routine maintenance on the sailboat yourself. A trailer sailboat as your first sailboat might be the best option. The cost of owning a trailer sailboat is much less than a sailboat requiring a slip or a marina’s crane to hoist it off the trailer if it can’t be launched from a regular boat ramp. If the winds and chop in the bay is greater than your current sailing skills, you can always trailer your sailboat and look for calmer waters, you can’t do that if have a sailboat that’s too big to trailer. Production trailer sailboats from Hunter, Catalina, Precision, Seaward, West Wright Potter, Com-Pac, W.D. Schock, etc, might be a good choice for your first sailboat. Fair Winds. Clyde
What I Did
I was in the same situation a couple of years ago. My budget was 10-15K and like you had mostly sailed hobies and el toros. I did sail with a friend on a 21 ft day sailor out of Redwood City alot. I started looking at what was availible in the 30 foot range in my budget. I looked a Cals, Ericsons, Catalinas and S2s. I ended up with a 79 Catalina 27 with all lines led aft and a 2 year old rig and sails. It really came down to finding a few manufacturers who's boats I liked and then found "the" boat I liked. I actually spent less 8K and got 3 foot less boat, but I have been really pleased with it. Biggest thing was the condition of the boat, it had everything and was well loved.
I was in the same situation a couple of years ago. My budget was 10-15K and like you had mostly sailed hobies and el toros. I did sail with a friend on a 21 ft day sailor out of Redwood City alot. I started looking at what was availible in the 30 foot range in my budget. I looked a Cals, Ericsons, Catalinas and S2s. I ended up with a 79 Catalina 27 with all lines led aft and a 2 year old rig and sails. It really came down to finding a few manufacturers who's boats I liked and then found "the" boat I liked. I actually spent less 8K and got 3 foot less boat, but I have been really pleased with it. Biggest thing was the condition of the boat, it had everything and was well loved.
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