Lets begin with some assumptions. 1) The boater does not live aboard. 2) Number of days sailing to be considered are days spent sailing and days spent aboard on a leisure activity. Any time more than two hours constitutes a full day. Time spent doing maintenance or repairs is not considered as use. 3) Boat depreciation will be calculated on a straight line basis for a 25 year period. Financing costs will be yearly interest paid plus any fees. Down payment or equity portion cost will be calculated at 10%. For boats paid for the cost will be calculated as an opportunity cost at 10%. 4) Other costs are marina fees, registration fees, towing insurance, boat insurance, maintenance and repairs, fuel. Calculate the number of days the boat is used in a year. Calculate all the expenses related to maintaining the boat. Divide the total cost by the number of days used. Surprised at your cost per outing? One way to lower the cost is to use it and sail more. More than an exercise in economics this is meant to create awareness of the recreational value we place on our boats. If I'm willing to spend $1,000 per day of use of the boat I most really enjoy those days and must look for ways to do it more frequently.
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Interesting concept.
Okay, I'll try. 1998 Hunter 260, with $29,500 of upgrades and original investment. No financing, so opportunity cost of $2,950 per season. Used 12 gallons of gas this season, over 1.9 days per week between early May and early October. (I sail back and forth to work 1-2 times per week, plus leisure time.) Call it $75 an outing. Oops, forgot insurance - call it closer to $100 an outing. However, I consider sailing in the same category as living and breathing. I don't value my cost of living based on my house and car costs each day. Without sailing I'd suffocate, so whatever price is paid is worth it, because it lets me live.
Okay, I'll try. 1998 Hunter 260, with $29,500 of upgrades and original investment. No financing, so opportunity cost of $2,950 per season. Used 12 gallons of gas this season, over 1.9 days per week between early May and early October. (I sail back and forth to work 1-2 times per week, plus leisure time.) Call it $75 an outing. Oops, forgot insurance - call it closer to $100 an outing. However, I consider sailing in the same category as living and breathing. I don't value my cost of living based on my house and car costs each day. Without sailing I'd suffocate, so whatever price is paid is worth it, because it lets me live.
Projects and maitainence
are half the fun of having. For me, heading down to the marina, laying around on the boat, planning and dreaming about improvements for a couple hours is half the fun of boat ownership. Gathering materials and creating something that make sailing easier and more enjoyable is always on my mind. I have owned a sailboat since 1978, I've done almost everything on and with my boat. By your formula, maybe, $80 a trip, for all the boats I've owned. My formula.......priceless. dmc
are half the fun of having. For me, heading down to the marina, laying around on the boat, planning and dreaming about improvements for a couple hours is half the fun of boat ownership. Gathering materials and creating something that make sailing easier and more enjoyable is always on my mind. I have owned a sailboat since 1978, I've done almost everything on and with my boat. By your formula, maybe, $80 a trip, for all the boats I've owned. My formula.......priceless. dmc
don't want to know
I resigned from the golf club at which we used to belong when I realized it was costing me around $500 per round. I don't want to even think about what the per use cost is for the boat. You must be a masochist Benny
I resigned from the golf club at which we used to belong when I realized it was costing me around $500 per round. I don't want to even think about what the per use cost is for the boat. You must be a masochist Benny
Rent/ Own
Benny, Very sobering thought- The old adage, " If it flies, floats or f***s, it's cheaper to rent than to own" still applies. However, I prefer to think that I pay for the boat which doubles as my beach house which I can use for free- I can't afford NOT to own it!
Benny, Very sobering thought- The old adage, " If it flies, floats or f***s, it's cheaper to rent than to own" still applies. However, I prefer to think that I pay for the boat which doubles as my beach house which I can use for free- I can't afford NOT to own it!
Not fair
No one would go into sailing if they figured out the costs in advance. It's a "Lifestyle", not an investment. As long as we can afford slip, storage and insurance (our boat is paid for) we will continue to sail. We do all our own maintenance and I agree with the previous poster that it is part of the sailing experience. Anyone can afford to sail. Your budget just dictates "what" you sail and maybe "where" you sail. We started with a Grumman canoe with a sail kit. We sailed it exclusively for 8 years and still have it. Use 4 or 5 times a sumeer Very cheap. $200 in 1973. No maintenance or insurance costs. Sail 20 times a summer. Next we got a 10 year old Clipper Marine 26 for $2000. A light trailer-sailer that we kept on a mooring that cost $250 with no ongoing costs except $25 a year for the winter log. We had the Honda outboard overhauled twice in 15 years for around $100. Insurance was about $36 a year. We used about 3 gallons a gas each summer and half a quart of oil. Sailed about 40 times per summer. Sold for $4000 in 2000. We spent around $2000 in upgrades over the years we owned it. Now we sail a 1987 Hunter 31 that we bought in 2000 for $31000 cash. We keep it at a slip for $930 per summer. Insurance $236 per year. Storage $700 per winter, plus $180 for winterizing. We feel like we are getting our money's worth.
No one would go into sailing if they figured out the costs in advance. It's a "Lifestyle", not an investment. As long as we can afford slip, storage and insurance (our boat is paid for) we will continue to sail. We do all our own maintenance and I agree with the previous poster that it is part of the sailing experience. Anyone can afford to sail. Your budget just dictates "what" you sail and maybe "where" you sail. We started with a Grumman canoe with a sail kit. We sailed it exclusively for 8 years and still have it. Use 4 or 5 times a sumeer Very cheap. $200 in 1973. No maintenance or insurance costs. Sail 20 times a summer. Next we got a 10 year old Clipper Marine 26 for $2000. A light trailer-sailer that we kept on a mooring that cost $250 with no ongoing costs except $25 a year for the winter log. We had the Honda outboard overhauled twice in 15 years for around $100. Insurance was about $36 a year. We used about 3 gallons a gas each summer and half a quart of oil. Sailed about 40 times per summer. Sold for $4000 in 2000. We spent around $2000 in upgrades over the years we owned it. Now we sail a 1987 Hunter 31 that we bought in 2000 for $31000 cash. We keep it at a slip for $930 per summer. Insurance $236 per year. Storage $700 per winter, plus $180 for winterizing. We feel like we are getting our money's worth.
Cost?
Cost of boat: thousand of dollars. Cost of upkeep, upgrades and new products: manageable. Cost of slip, insurance and provisioning: reasonable. Cost of sailing pleasure: PRICELESS. A sailboat is a discretionary choice not a necessary expense! Value the winds of change and the fortunes of sunshine? Price out your voyage not by what you spend but what you earn understanding economies more important than objective spending. My formula is the value of shared learning experiences multiplied by the visions of thousands of days on the water divided by the hundreds of stories adding the many courses of relaxation under sun and moon factored by the laughter and love equal the value of sailing.
Cost of boat: thousand of dollars. Cost of upkeep, upgrades and new products: manageable. Cost of slip, insurance and provisioning: reasonable. Cost of sailing pleasure: PRICELESS. A sailboat is a discretionary choice not a necessary expense! Value the winds of change and the fortunes of sunshine? Price out your voyage not by what you spend but what you earn understanding economies more important than objective spending. My formula is the value of shared learning experiences multiplied by the visions of thousands of days on the water divided by the hundreds of stories adding the many courses of relaxation under sun and moon factored by the laughter and love equal the value of sailing.
What is your point......my cost is a mute point...
...since I get $100,000 worth is pleasure in my investment on a monthly basis. You can talk about the costs....but like the commercial says some things are priceless. What value do you place when your 16 year old son spends two weeks in a H36 with his old man and mother and tells you that this was one of the best vacations that he has ever had. Oh, I forgot he has been to 20 european countries, S and Central America, Galapagos...... My regrets is that I use to look at this like Benny...when I could have bought my sailboat 5-10years prior to when I did. Instead, I missed out on 5-10 years of pleasure, family togetherness, and the nice people I have met at the docks. Benny, you are climbing up the wrong tree...... abe
...since I get $100,000 worth is pleasure in my investment on a monthly basis. You can talk about the costs....but like the commercial says some things are priceless. What value do you place when your 16 year old son spends two weeks in a H36 with his old man and mother and tells you that this was one of the best vacations that he has ever had. Oh, I forgot he has been to 20 european countries, S and Central America, Galapagos...... My regrets is that I use to look at this like Benny...when I could have bought my sailboat 5-10years prior to when I did. Instead, I missed out on 5-10 years of pleasure, family togetherness, and the nice people I have met at the docks. Benny, you are climbing up the wrong tree...... abe
I am with Marybeth.
Choosing to sail is a lifestyle. In some locations you can actually keep a sailboat in the water for very little if you have mooring rights in a local harbor and a place to winter your boat (if winter exists at your latitude). To figure the cost per sail on the two sailboats I had in the water this summer on the LI Sound and Hudson would be too much for me right now. Overnighters cost more naturally and you want the galley to be fully functional for that. I am pretty sure I spend around $100 for each sail averaged out over time whether it is my boat we are using or someone else's. It is more of a lifestyle choice than anything; to want to sail. CalebD
Choosing to sail is a lifestyle. In some locations you can actually keep a sailboat in the water for very little if you have mooring rights in a local harbor and a place to winter your boat (if winter exists at your latitude). To figure the cost per sail on the two sailboats I had in the water this summer on the LI Sound and Hudson would be too much for me right now. Overnighters cost more naturally and you want the galley to be fully functional for that. I am pretty sure I spend around $100 for each sail averaged out over time whether it is my boat we are using or someone else's. It is more of a lifestyle choice than anything; to want to sail. CalebD
agree w/ Joe
I tend to agree with what Joe said. I see my boat as "stress therapy". This includes working on various projects along the way. The way I see it, the boat has got to be cheaper than "professional therapy", and is much more rewarding. Even if I never got out in an entire season it would still be worth it to me. Fortunately, I averaged a day or two every week of this past season. I guess that works out to about $130 per outing. Initially that sounds like a lot I suppose, but it's worth every penny to me.
I tend to agree with what Joe said. I see my boat as "stress therapy". This includes working on various projects along the way. The way I see it, the boat has got to be cheaper than "professional therapy", and is much more rewarding. Even if I never got out in an entire season it would still be worth it to me. Fortunately, I averaged a day or two every week of this past season. I guess that works out to about $130 per outing. Initially that sounds like a lot I suppose, but it's worth every penny to me.
What is your cost per outing? $100? $3,000?
Lets begin with some assumptions. 1) The SPOUSE does not live aboard. 2) Number of days enjoying SPOUSE to be considered are days spent in use and days spent with SPOUSE on a leisure activity. Any time more than two hours constitutes a full day. Time spent doing maintenance or repairs of SPOUSE is not considered as use. 3) SPOUSAL depreciation will be calculated on a straight line basis for a 25 year period. Financing costs will be yearly interest paid plus any fees. Down payment or equity portion cost will be calculated at 10%. For SPOUSES paid for the cost will be calculated as an opportunity cost at 10%. 4) Other costs are flowers/jewelry fees etc., SPOUSE insurance, maintenance and repairs, food, etc. Calculate the number of days the SPOUSE is used in a year. Calculate all the expenses related to maintaining the SPOUSE. Divide the total cost by the number of days used. Surprised at your cost per 'outing'? One way to lower the cost is to use SPOUSE more. More than an exercise in economics this is meant to create awareness of the recreational value we place on our SPOUSE. If I'm willing to spend $1,000 per day of use of the SPOUSE I most really enjoy those days and must look for ways to **DO IT** more frequently. Put a recreational value number on THAT. ... and you wonder why accountants dont enjoy life very much !!! <G>
Lets begin with some assumptions. 1) The SPOUSE does not live aboard. 2) Number of days enjoying SPOUSE to be considered are days spent in use and days spent with SPOUSE on a leisure activity. Any time more than two hours constitutes a full day. Time spent doing maintenance or repairs of SPOUSE is not considered as use. 3) SPOUSAL depreciation will be calculated on a straight line basis for a 25 year period. Financing costs will be yearly interest paid plus any fees. Down payment or equity portion cost will be calculated at 10%. For SPOUSES paid for the cost will be calculated as an opportunity cost at 10%. 4) Other costs are flowers/jewelry fees etc., SPOUSE insurance, maintenance and repairs, food, etc. Calculate the number of days the SPOUSE is used in a year. Calculate all the expenses related to maintaining the SPOUSE. Divide the total cost by the number of days used. Surprised at your cost per 'outing'? One way to lower the cost is to use SPOUSE more. More than an exercise in economics this is meant to create awareness of the recreational value we place on our SPOUSE. If I'm willing to spend $1,000 per day of use of the SPOUSE I most really enjoy those days and must look for ways to **DO IT** more frequently. Put a recreational value number on THAT. ... and you wonder why accountants dont enjoy life very much !!! <G>
Mine is not that bad
In my case it not that bad at all. I have an '81 C-30 that cost me $25 K. I paid cash so there no payments. When I sell I will get between 20K and $25K. The boat is fully depreciated. I am on a lake near Dallas so insurance is not bad $500. a year. Slip and insurance are about $300.00 per month. Here is the kicker, I get out to the boat 2 to 3 times per week all year around. I will use 2 time per week for the math. I do all of the maintenance my self. There really hasn't been any big numbers there. Right now it is around $34.61 per trip. It will go up when I pull the boat for a bottom job but I will do that myself also. I have always been a big fan of a bit older and fully depreciated boats. Like women they seem to come with less problems. The boat is the last thing that will go.
In my case it not that bad at all. I have an '81 C-30 that cost me $25 K. I paid cash so there no payments. When I sell I will get between 20K and $25K. The boat is fully depreciated. I am on a lake near Dallas so insurance is not bad $500. a year. Slip and insurance are about $300.00 per month. Here is the kicker, I get out to the boat 2 to 3 times per week all year around. I will use 2 time per week for the math. I do all of the maintenance my self. There really hasn't been any big numbers there. Right now it is around $34.61 per trip. It will go up when I pull the boat for a bottom job but I will do that myself also. I have always been a big fan of a bit older and fully depreciated boats. Like women they seem to come with less problems. The boat is the last thing that will go.
A boat costs a lot!
Yes a boat costs a lot of money but WHO CARES! We did not buy a boat because we're frugal we bought a boat because to frugal people we're just stupid.... Being a sailor is like being a smoker or an alcoholic except that sailing costs more but is not as bad for your health. The down side is that it's just as tough to kick the habit. I grew up sailing and took time off during college, beer & "keggers" more affordable, but the minute I graduated, and had a few cents in my pocket from the working world, I was right back at it. For me I can't really kick the boating habit. Heck we built our lifestyle, and purchased our home, based on boating and chose Maine & Casco Bay specifically for it's sailing. I suppose if I had never been a sailor we never would have purchased our house, which then never would have appreciated as much as it has due to the location in proximity to the water. So perhaps due to our "sailing related" real estate buying decisions, and the resulting increase in the property values compared to an "inland" house, sailing has not cost us a dime...?? Food for thought..
Yes a boat costs a lot of money but WHO CARES! We did not buy a boat because we're frugal we bought a boat because to frugal people we're just stupid.... Being a sailor is like being a smoker or an alcoholic except that sailing costs more but is not as bad for your health. The down side is that it's just as tough to kick the habit. I grew up sailing and took time off during college, beer & "keggers" more affordable, but the minute I graduated, and had a few cents in my pocket from the working world, I was right back at it. For me I can't really kick the boating habit. Heck we built our lifestyle, and purchased our home, based on boating and chose Maine & Casco Bay specifically for it's sailing. I suppose if I had never been a sailor we never would have purchased our house, which then never would have appreciated as much as it has due to the location in proximity to the water. So perhaps due to our "sailing related" real estate buying decisions, and the resulting increase in the property values compared to an "inland" house, sailing has not cost us a dime...?? Food for thought..
RichH, You just put me on the brink of Bankruptcy
I never sat dow and really put a cost to my two favorite passtimes. I have a negetive cash flow on paper now and at the current rate of consumption, will be in bankruptcy court within the year
I never sat dow and really put a cost to my two favorite passtimes. I have a negetive cash flow on paper now and at the current rate of consumption, will be in bankruptcy court within the year
This is beautiful
With each outting the cost per outing reduces........Honey I am going out sailing, to save us some money.
With each outting the cost per outing reduces........Honey I am going out sailing, to save us some money.
Am I Ignorant or Apathetic?
I don't know and I don't care! Actually Benny, what you ask is a very practical question. The answers indicate that what folks receive from sailing cannot be measured in dollars. I suspect you also fall into this fortunate group. BrianW
I don't know and I don't care! Actually Benny, what you ask is a very practical question. The answers indicate that what folks receive from sailing cannot be measured in dollars. I suspect you also fall into this fortunate group. BrianW
This is oddd
but it did get me to thinking. You know Benny, I just realized that offshore (away from daily routine and life itself), I spend less money for the day. A lot less. 1) I ain't shopping for supper 2) I ain't topping off my car at the gas station 3) I ain't burning barbeque coals and fluid to make supper, or 4) Burning up electricity on an electric stove. 5) Go back to number 2) and add wife's car if she is out with me on the sea 5) again I am not burning two stakes on the grill 6) think I am repeating myself (having a senior moment) Oh, and while out on the boat, I will burn a few cups of gas getting in and out of the marina slip, and once the sails are up ... we(I) will eat a can a beenie weenies and have a pop-tart for dessert. All this savings plus, if it is like it is said, 'The time sailing is not deducted from your lifespan', then add in the savings there too!
but it did get me to thinking. You know Benny, I just realized that offshore (away from daily routine and life itself), I spend less money for the day. A lot less. 1) I ain't shopping for supper 2) I ain't topping off my car at the gas station 3) I ain't burning barbeque coals and fluid to make supper, or 4) Burning up electricity on an electric stove. 5) Go back to number 2) and add wife's car if she is out with me on the sea 5) again I am not burning two stakes on the grill 6) think I am repeating myself (having a senior moment) Oh, and while out on the boat, I will burn a few cups of gas getting in and out of the marina slip, and once the sails are up ... we(I) will eat a can a beenie weenies and have a pop-tart for dessert. All this savings plus, if it is like it is said, 'The time sailing is not deducted from your lifespan', then add in the savings there too!
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