Don, *cry since new, I have not been able to trim this genoa 150% to make it parallel to the stay without hitting the upper spreader and stay. The sail maker tells me that the sail is perfect but that the spreader is too large and suggests that I cut them!*yks!. I hope you can see from the picture that the sail is already touching the stay on the bottom and the top but it is still quite far from the lower spreader. I have no problem with the sail for reaching but I don's seem to be able to point well with it. The sail has a radial cut, is there anything that can be done to fix it?*! Thanks
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Tom DiGiacomo
Sailmaker said What??
In all my years of racing, trimming sails and buying sails, I have never heard a sailmaker tell me that his sail requires modifications to my existing rig. That is absurd. Especially since the rig was there first - before he measured for the sail. It's really hard to tell what might be going on from the picture but it looks as though the sail is trimmed in pretty hard. Without draft stripes, you can't see where the draft is and you can't really see what the tell tales are doing. Remember, though, that pointing performance doesn't always come from trimming in the sail hard. In fact on a lot of boats(most cruising and heavier displacement boats), easing the sail and bearing off a few degerees makes you go faster which makes the keel more efficient and results in higher pointing. So your poor pointing performance may not be a function of how tight you can or can't get your sail trimmed in - but rather on how fast you can keep the keel moving through the water. Best you can see, the sail seems to have a good shape. It has always been my understanding that the distance from the middle spreader will always be different from the top and bottom because the sail stretches. While referencing the distance from the upper spreader and shroud at the bottom helps to guage your sheeting angle, the tell tales should tell you the same thing. But you only want it sheeted that way in certain conditions, anyway. When the wind goes light or gets overpowering, you want to move the leads back and open the leach at the top. Not that you asked me - but if you did - I would tell you to try cracking off 2-3 inches on the sheet, and bear off a few degrees for speed and see what happens to your pointing. And definitely don't cut the spreader.
In all my years of racing, trimming sails and buying sails, I have never heard a sailmaker tell me that his sail requires modifications to my existing rig. That is absurd. Especially since the rig was there first - before he measured for the sail. It's really hard to tell what might be going on from the picture but it looks as though the sail is trimmed in pretty hard. Without draft stripes, you can't see where the draft is and you can't really see what the tell tales are doing. Remember, though, that pointing performance doesn't always come from trimming in the sail hard. In fact on a lot of boats(most cruising and heavier displacement boats), easing the sail and bearing off a few degerees makes you go faster which makes the keel more efficient and results in higher pointing. So your poor pointing performance may not be a function of how tight you can or can't get your sail trimmed in - but rather on how fast you can keep the keel moving through the water. Best you can see, the sail seems to have a good shape. It has always been my understanding that the distance from the middle spreader will always be different from the top and bottom because the sail stretches. While referencing the distance from the upper spreader and shroud at the bottom helps to guage your sheeting angle, the tell tales should tell you the same thing. But you only want it sheeted that way in certain conditions, anyway. When the wind goes light or gets overpowering, you want to move the leads back and open the leach at the top. Not that you asked me - but if you did - I would tell you to try cracking off 2-3 inches on the sheet, and bear off a few degrees for speed and see what happens to your pointing. And definitely don't cut the spreader.
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Tom S.
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Jose Venegas
Moving the lead back does not do it
Thank you Tom, My understanding is that for highest upwind performance at appropriate winds for a large genoa (150% in my case the sail should be pretty much parallel to the stay. In my boat, when I trim it at that condition, the sail touches the stay on the bottom but leaves quite a distance to the upper, as you can see from the picture. I can move the lead forward and trim the sail so that it is parallel to the shroud, but then the top of the sail will be wrinkled as it smashes against the upper spreader and the shroud above it. There is no way to set the sail so that it touches the lower spreader’s tip and the shroud at the bottom without closing the slot between the second spreader and the top of the sail. Moving the lead back opens the distance between the sail and the lower spreader even more but it does not open the slot on top. In other words, as I move the lead and trim the sail, it opens in the center but the top part of the slot is still closed. So, I can’t set the same twist on the genoa that I set on the main sail and thus I end up closing the slot between both. My understanding was that as wind increased, one should open up the slot on the top to accompany the twist on the main, and that should be possible to do by moving the lead back without loosing pointing angle Having said that, it may be possible that given the cruising nature of my boat (Beneteau 361), it may be better to sail footing off instead of trying to go as high as the trimmed genoa would let me. As I said before, the boat is pretty fast reaching. The sail has been like this since new, and I could still get the sail maker to cut it if there is a problem with it. The question is should I?? I WILL NOT CUT MY SPREADER FOR SURE. Thanks again.
Thank you Tom, My understanding is that for highest upwind performance at appropriate winds for a large genoa (150% in my case the sail should be pretty much parallel to the stay. In my boat, when I trim it at that condition, the sail touches the stay on the bottom but leaves quite a distance to the upper, as you can see from the picture. I can move the lead forward and trim the sail so that it is parallel to the shroud, but then the top of the sail will be wrinkled as it smashes against the upper spreader and the shroud above it. There is no way to set the sail so that it touches the lower spreader’s tip and the shroud at the bottom without closing the slot between the second spreader and the top of the sail. Moving the lead back opens the distance between the sail and the lower spreader even more but it does not open the slot on top. In other words, as I move the lead and trim the sail, it opens in the center but the top part of the slot is still closed. So, I can’t set the same twist on the genoa that I set on the main sail and thus I end up closing the slot between both. My understanding was that as wind increased, one should open up the slot on the top to accompany the twist on the main, and that should be possible to do by moving the lead back without loosing pointing angle Having said that, it may be possible that given the cruising nature of my boat (Beneteau 361), it may be better to sail footing off instead of trying to go as high as the trimmed genoa would let me. As I said before, the boat is pretty fast reaching. The sail has been like this since new, and I could still get the sail maker to cut it if there is a problem with it. The question is should I?? I WILL NOT CUT MY SPREADER FOR SURE. Thanks again.
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Joe
The leech looks cupped....
... or maybe it's just the picture. A cupped leech will definitely affect performance and appearance. The sail looks like it's inside the top spreader boot... is that right"? Don't over trim... especially in light air or when you are trying to point. Check your angle from the tack to the lead. Then consult a good sail trim book like "The Art and Science of Sails" by Tom Whidden. I think you'll find that you are okay.
... or maybe it's just the picture. A cupped leech will definitely affect performance and appearance. The sail looks like it's inside the top spreader boot... is that right"? Don't over trim... especially in light air or when you are trying to point. Check your angle from the tack to the lead. Then consult a good sail trim book like "The Art and Science of Sails" by Tom Whidden. I think you'll find that you are okay.
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Tom
Genoa Track
Have had two beneteaus and have sailed on lots of others. Have had same problem with large head sails. Beneteau doesn't put a long enough genoa track on their boats. I fly my 155 with the tack on deck not the furling drum.
Have had two beneteaus and have sailed on lots of others. Have had same problem with large head sails. Beneteau doesn't put a long enough genoa track on their boats. I fly my 155 with the tack on deck not the furling drum.
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Jose Venegas
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