What is the proper response to a tsunani?

[Dan Jonas]

How High?

I didn't mean to take this to the ridiculous, I was just facinated with the concern over an asteroid coming before a "reported" 1/4 mile high Tsunami from the Canary Islands. Just curious, how many of the high rises in New York are taller than a 1/4 mile? That's why i asked...Is that 1/4 mile high report valid?I was also facinated with the concept of Tsunami warnings. I can see the value for a nominal event where people can move a limited distance from the shore. But if you need to evacuate a major set of cities in a matter of hours, it isn't going to happen.The reports so far appear to substantiate waves of somewhere just over 30' associated with this event. Reports of third floor damage to hotels, people in palm trees, etc. The event was one of the 5 largest in a century. So, just curious, what are the risks?In California we now have fault line setbacks in many areas. Should we have Tsunami setbacks? Oh Gee, here I go again, gotta stop.Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)

 

[Dan Jonas]

How High?

I didn't mean to take this to the ridiculous, I was just facinated with the concern over an asteroid coming before a "reported" 1/4 mile high Tsunami from the Canary Islands. Just curious, how many of the high rises in New York are taller than a 1/4 mile? That's why i asked...Is that 1/4 mile high report valid?I was also facinated with the concept of Tsunami warnings. I can see the value for a nominal event where people can move a limited distance from the shore. But if you need to evacuate a major set of cities in a matter of hours, it isn't going to happen.The reports so far appear to substantiate waves of somewhere just over 30' associated with this event. Reports of third floor damage to hotels, people in palm trees, etc. The event was one of the 5 largest in a century. So, just curious, what are the risks?In California we now have fault line setbacks in many areas. Should we have Tsunami setbacks? Oh Gee, here I go again, gotta stop.Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)

 

[eds928gt]

1/4 mile high wave is a bit much.

I believe the largest tsunami (which hit Japan - a reason for its name) in recorded history was about 30 meters (about 100 feet) in height. However, there is geologic evidence of tsunamis that were much higher.Having lived in NYC for over 20 years, I know not to underestimate the resolve of my fellow NYers. If they are convinced they must get out in 7 hours, they'll do it in 6:59:59, and complain about it all the way.Back to the odds. The cahnce of an Atlantic tsunami of 10 meters in height is very remote (perhaps 1/100,000,000). The chance for a 30 meter tsunami is probably 1/100 the chance of a 10 meter tsunami. The chance of a one 100 meters is probably 1/1,000 of a 30 meter tsunami, etc.If I were you, I'd be more worried that a plane would fall out of the sky and hit me while I slept even though I lived no where near an airport.~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~

 

[eds928gt]

1/4 mile high wave is a bit much.

I believe the largest tsunami (which hit Japan - a reason for its name) in recorded history was about 30 meters (about 100 feet) in height. However, there is geologic evidence of tsunamis that were much higher.Having lived in NYC for over 20 years, I know not to underestimate the resolve of my fellow NYers. If they are convinced they must get out in 7 hours, they'll do it in 6:59:59, and complain about it all the way.Back to the odds. The cahnce of an Atlantic tsunami of 10 meters in height is very remote (perhaps 1/100,000,000). The chance for a 30 meter tsunami is probably 1/100 the chance of a 10 meter tsunami. The chance of a one 100 meters is probably 1/1,000 of a 30 meter tsunami, etc.If I were you, I'd be more worried that a plane would fall out of the sky and hit me while I slept even though I lived no where near an airport.~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~

 

[Scott]

NY Times Article, Peter?

I'm curious about what the Times had to say about the feasibility of eastern seaboard cities being vulnerable. I'm no expert, but I believe that it is absurd to think that a devastating tsunami wave could reach any city along our east coast because the continental shelf is so gradual and the bottom is so soft that the energy of the waves would be dissipated long before reaching an actual city. Think about it. The Pacific rim and the Hawaiian Islands have a sharply declining sea floor and bedrock bottom that allows very little energy dissipation. The phenomenal size of waves that can happen there is impossible on the east coast.The eastern seaboard, except as far north as Maine, has shallow water extending far out into the ocean, very soft sandy bottoms which suck the energy out (that's why surfers hate the east coast) and barrier islands protecting most of the land mass. I don't think it's possible for a tsunami to reach the cities. Coastal towns along the barrier islands may be threatened, but would a tsunami be any worse than the storm surge from a hurricane or nor-easter? I don't think so. I think the energy of all waves are pretty well dissipated by the time they reach shore here on the east coast.In case I'm wrong, I'm glad my house is 1,000 feet above sea level!The eastern side of the Atlantic may have a completely different topography and maybe that is what the NY Times is speaking about. With their recent embarrassements and tendancy to sensationalize stories, it is sometimes hard to believe what is printed in their paper.In any event, I've not heard or read about the seafloor conditions that exist in the Indian Ocean where the recent tragedies have occurred. My niece and her husband have visited coastal Thailand and really loved the area and the people. The suffering they have to endure must be awful.

 

[Scott]

NY Times Article, Peter?

I'm curious about what the Times had to say about the feasibility of eastern seaboard cities being vulnerable. I'm no expert, but I believe that it is absurd to think that a devastating tsunami wave could reach any city along our east coast because the continental shelf is so gradual and the bottom is so soft that the energy of the waves would be dissipated long before reaching an actual city. Think about it. The Pacific rim and the Hawaiian Islands have a sharply declining sea floor and bedrock bottom that allows very little energy dissipation. The phenomenal size of waves that can happen there is impossible on the east coast.The eastern seaboard, except as far north as Maine, has shallow water extending far out into the ocean, very soft sandy bottoms which suck the energy out (that's why surfers hate the east coast) and barrier islands protecting most of the land mass. I don't think it's possible for a tsunami to reach the cities. Coastal towns along the barrier islands may be threatened, but would a tsunami be any worse than the storm surge from a hurricane or nor-easter? I don't think so. I think the energy of all waves are pretty well dissipated by the time they reach shore here on the east coast.In case I'm wrong, I'm glad my house is 1,000 feet above sea level!The eastern side of the Atlantic may have a completely different topography and maybe that is what the NY Times is speaking about. With their recent embarrassements and tendancy to sensationalize stories, it is sometimes hard to believe what is printed in their paper.In any event, I've not heard or read about the seafloor conditions that exist in the Indian Ocean where the recent tragedies have occurred. My niece and her husband have visited coastal Thailand and really loved the area and the people. The suffering they have to endure must be awful.

 

[abe]

NY Times article another B.S. story... doom and

gloom newspaper mentality. abe

 

[abe]

NY Times article another B.S. story... doom and

gloom newspaper mentality. abe

 

[William]

Tsunami's

From now on I'll keep the radio on to listen for storm warnings of all types., those tsunami's can roll in fast!

 

[William]

Tsunami's

From now on I'll keep the radio on to listen for storm warnings of all types., those tsunami's can roll in fast!

 

[Gord May]

It all depends upon Mt. Everest

Fred wondered: “Why is it that we hear that US officials are so poor (to use a polite term) during these disasters.”It appears they are NOT so poor, at least compared to Canadian officialdom.ie:Last nite a Canadian survivor reported that the Canadian Embassy “really let them down”. Canadians are waiting 5 days to get replacement passports, and paying full price for them. Americans & Australians are getting free replacement passports in a single day.As to “probabilities”, I’ll have to defer to Harry Belefonte:“Man Piaba”When I was a lad of three-foot-threeCertain questions occurred to me,So I asked me father quite seriouslyTo tell me the story 'bout the bird and bee.He stammered and he stuttered patheticallyAnd this is what he said to me.He said, "The woman piaba and the man piabaand the Ton Ton call baka lemon grass,The lily root, gully root, belly root uhmm,And the famous grandy scratch scratch.It was clear as mud but it covered the groundAnd the confusion made the brain go 'round.I went and ask a good friend of mine,Known to the world as Albert Einstein.He said "Son, from the beginning of time and creativityThere existed the force of relativityPi r square and a minus ten means a routine only whenThe solar system in one light yearMake the Hayden planetarium disappearSo if Mt Everest doesn't moveI am positive that it will proveThat the woman piaba and the man piabaAnd the Ton Ton call baka lemon grass,The lily root, gully root, belly root uhmm,And the famous grandy scratch scratch.It was clear as mud but it covered the groundAnd the confusion made the brain go 'round.I grabbed a boat and went abroadIn Baden Baden asked Sigmund FreudHe said "Son, from your sad face remove the grouchPut the body down up on the couchI can see from your frustration a neurotic sublimationHey love and hate is psychosomaticYour Rorsach shows that you're a peri patheticIt all started with a broken siblingIn the words of the famous Rudyard KiplingThat the woman piaba and the man piabaAnd the Ton Ton call baka lemon grass,The lily root, gully root, belly root uhmm,And the famous grandy scratch scratch.Well I traveled far and I traveled wideAnd I don't even have me self a brideAll the great men upon this earthHave confused me since my birthI've been over land and been over seaTrying to find answer 'bout the bird and beeBut now that I am ninety threeI don't give a darn you seeIf the woman piaba and the man piabaAnd the Ton Ton call baka lemon grass,The lily root, gully root, belly root uhmm,And the famous grandy scratch scratch.

 

[Gord May]

It all depends upon Mt. Everest

Fred wondered: “Why is it that we hear that US officials are so poor (to use a polite term) during these disasters.”It appears they are NOT so poor, at least compared to Canadian officialdom.ie:Last nite a Canadian survivor reported that the Canadian Embassy “really let them down”. Canadians are waiting 5 days to get replacement passports, and paying full price for them. Americans & Australians are getting free replacement passports in a single day.As to “probabilities”, I’ll have to defer to Harry Belefonte:“Man Piaba”When I was a lad of three-foot-threeCertain questions occurred to me,So I asked me father quite seriouslyTo tell me the story 'bout the bird and bee.He stammered and he stuttered patheticallyAnd this is what he said to me.He said, "The woman piaba and the man piabaand the Ton Ton call baka lemon grass,The lily root, gully root, belly root uhmm,And the famous grandy scratch scratch.It was clear as mud but it covered the groundAnd the confusion made the brain go 'round.I went and ask a good friend of mine,Known to the world as Albert Einstein.He said "Son, from the beginning of time and creativityThere existed the force of relativityPi r square and a minus ten means a routine only whenThe solar system in one light yearMake the Hayden planetarium disappearSo if Mt Everest doesn't moveI am positive that it will proveThat the woman piaba and the man piabaAnd the Ton Ton call baka lemon grass,The lily root, gully root, belly root uhmm,And the famous grandy scratch scratch.It was clear as mud but it covered the groundAnd the confusion made the brain go 'round.I grabbed a boat and went abroadIn Baden Baden asked Sigmund FreudHe said "Son, from your sad face remove the grouchPut the body down up on the couchI can see from your frustration a neurotic sublimationHey love and hate is psychosomaticYour Rorsach shows that you're a peri patheticIt all started with a broken siblingIn the words of the famous Rudyard KiplingThat the woman piaba and the man piabaAnd the Ton Ton call baka lemon grass,The lily root, gully root, belly root uhmm,And the famous grandy scratch scratch.Well I traveled far and I traveled wideAnd I don't even have me self a brideAll the great men upon this earthHave confused me since my birthI've been over land and been over seaTrying to find answer 'bout the bird and beeBut now that I am ninety threeI don't give a darn you seeIf the woman piaba and the man piabaAnd the Ton Ton call baka lemon grass,The lily root, gully root, belly root uhmm,And the famous grandy scratch scratch.

 

[Ken Prichard]

One more question

I now know a lot more than I used to but I have one more question nobody touched on. When the tsunani approaches the coast why does the water first receed? This was substantial in this case. They say many people went out on the beach to pick up fish and were swept away when the wave hit.

 

[Ken Prichard]

One more question

I now know a lot more than I used to but I have one more question nobody touched on. When the tsunani approaches the coast why does the water first receed? This was substantial in this case. They say many people went out on the beach to pick up fish and were swept away when the wave hit.

 

[eds928gt]

Wave physics

As the wave approches the shore, it feels interference from the rising seafloor. The interference causes the wave to slow its forward motion, but as a result the wave increases in amplitude. That amplitude is achieved by adding water from behind as well as in front of the wave. Thus, the water at the shore receeds dramatically seconds (for small tsunamis) to minutes (for big tsunamis) before the wavecrest crashes onto the shore.~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~

 

[eds928gt]

Wave physics

As the wave approches the shore, it feels interference from the rising seafloor. The interference causes the wave to slow its forward motion, but as a result the wave increases in amplitude. That amplitude is achieved by adding water from behind as well as in front of the wave. Thus, the water at the shore receeds dramatically seconds (for small tsunamis) to minutes (for big tsunamis) before the wavecrest crashes onto the shore.~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~

 

[patrick]

One thing missing in all of the discussion

that I have seen is that what seems so surprising about this whole incident is how easy it is to perish in relatively shallow water in a relatively short time. People just a few hundred yards off shore were much safer than those close inland.For example, I am sure some people could fall in at the dock fully clothed and get out without assistance but many could not. Add to that a few knots of current and the turbulence of the moving waves and it becomes almost impossible to avoid drowning. That does not even take into consideration the risk of being crushed between big things around you or being caught and held against something by the current and drowning that way.The videos and commentators on TV just do not adequately explain this. What I have seen on the tube looks like a bigger than usual wave at the beach.If this kind of tsunami happened in Puget Sound, the cold water would be another factor altogether. It is so cold that shock alone would probably kill a quite few people outright and the others would loose strength so rapidly that it would contribute a lot to their inability to save themselves.I am reminded of a test I did a few years ago having a boat tow me at one knot and then two knots. It was almost impossible to keep my head out of the water at two to three knots even when wearing a life jacket and only a swimming suit. The test was in response to a suggestion that single handing sailors should tow a long line behind the boat so that they could pull themselves back to the boat if they fell overboard while underway. I can say from that experience, it will not work unless there is some way to stop the boat.

 

[patrick]

One thing missing in all of the discussion

that I have seen is that what seems so surprising about this whole incident is how easy it is to perish in relatively shallow water in a relatively short time. People just a few hundred yards off shore were much safer than those close inland.For example, I am sure some people could fall in at the dock fully clothed and get out without assistance but many could not. Add to that a few knots of current and the turbulence of the moving waves and it becomes almost impossible to avoid drowning. That does not even take into consideration the risk of being crushed between big things around you or being caught and held against something by the current and drowning that way.The videos and commentators on TV just do not adequately explain this. What I have seen on the tube looks like a bigger than usual wave at the beach.If this kind of tsunami happened in Puget Sound, the cold water would be another factor altogether. It is so cold that shock alone would probably kill a quite few people outright and the others would loose strength so rapidly that it would contribute a lot to their inability to save themselves.I am reminded of a test I did a few years ago having a boat tow me at one knot and then two knots. It was almost impossible to keep my head out of the water at two to three knots even when wearing a life jacket and only a swimming suit. The test was in response to a suggestion that single handing sailors should tow a long line behind the boat so that they could pull themselves back to the boat if they fell overboard while underway. I can say from that experience, it will not work unless there is some way to stop the boat.

 

[Ed]

Weather helm will stop the boat

At least while sailing, the sails should be trimmed with a bit of weather helm. This way, if you fall off (and it's not on auto-pilot) the boat will head-up and (eventually) come to a stop. Hopefully, you are tethered to the boat (in some way), and are conscious. Since you and the boat are now 'still' relative the the water, you should be able to haul yourself aboard.~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~

 

[Ed]

Weather helm will stop the boat

At least while sailing, the sails should be trimmed with a bit of weather helm. This way, if you fall off (and it's not on auto-pilot) the boat will head-up and (eventually) come to a stop. Hopefully, you are tethered to the boat (in some way), and are conscious. Since you and the boat are now 'still' relative the the water, you should be able to haul yourself aboard.~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~