I know there have been lots of posts and a quiz and question of the week on the best anchor to use and I'm not looking to open any "old wounds" on this discussion *666, but I am looking for a bit more specific information. I own an H456 and it comes with a Danforth and about 20 feet of chain with the rest of the rode being line. What are the opinions regarding if the Danforth is the best general anchor for the Chesapeake and should I replace the entire rode with chain? I appreciate the input! Regards, -Jim- S/v Forever
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Bay Anchors
I'm not sure there is a "perfect" anchor. Sort of depends on your boat and the conditions it's anchored in. The Chesapeake, for example, has few rocks, reefs, grass, etc., to complicate anchoring. There is some hard sand and shells in a number of areas, however. Yet, we have that infamous Bay mud. Bury an anchor in that mud and it's like concrete. A properly sized Danforth, with 20 feet of chain, and properly sized nylon rode, with the right scope for the conditions, ought to do the trick. Chain is certainly "better" but I think it's overkill if you just cruise the Bay. I have never had a Danforth fail to hold my boats on the Bay in over 30 years of sailing. I can remember a few occassions, when anchored during high wind thunderstorms, that I had real trouble breaking the Danforth out after the storm as it had dug itself in nearly to China! You also haven't said what you carry for a second anchor. Over the years, I've used Danforths as my primary overnight anchor and lunch hook. I use plow anchors, either alone, or in combination with the Danforth, when I am expecting some really rough weather. Hope this helps.
I'm not sure there is a "perfect" anchor. Sort of depends on your boat and the conditions it's anchored in. The Chesapeake, for example, has few rocks, reefs, grass, etc., to complicate anchoring. There is some hard sand and shells in a number of areas, however. Yet, we have that infamous Bay mud. Bury an anchor in that mud and it's like concrete. A properly sized Danforth, with 20 feet of chain, and properly sized nylon rode, with the right scope for the conditions, ought to do the trick. Chain is certainly "better" but I think it's overkill if you just cruise the Bay. I have never had a Danforth fail to hold my boats on the Bay in over 30 years of sailing. I can remember a few occassions, when anchored during high wind thunderstorms, that I had real trouble breaking the Danforth out after the storm as it had dug itself in nearly to China! You also haven't said what you carry for a second anchor. Over the years, I've used Danforths as my primary overnight anchor and lunch hook. I use plow anchors, either alone, or in combination with the Danforth, when I am expecting some really rough weather. Hope this helps.
Big, Heavy & All Chain for all conditions
Jim, we have a 2000 h450 and use a 60 lb CQR w/ 200' of 3/8" chain + 150 of 3/4" rope as a primary anchor. We also ordered the boat in (from Hunter) w/ a Maxwell winless that (by removing the rode of one for the other) can be used on two anchor (chain or rope) systems. Or secondary anchor on the bow is a 40 or 44 lb bruce w/ 50' of 3/8" chain + 150 'of 3/4" rope. We have an aft anchor, a FX 37 Fortress w/ 20' of 5/16' chain & 200' off 1/2" rope. We also carry a FX 55 Fortress anchor & 150' of 3/8" chain & 400' of 1/2" & 3/4" rope in storage under floorboards in the salon. We did all this because: 1. We live on it full time. 2. We designed the anchoring system to take us form Maine to the Caribbean and points in between. 3. If you are a real cruiser, than in my opinion you need to be almost completely self sufferance. 4. And most important - WE SLEEP VERY WELL at anchor. The primary system has worked well for us in all locations, not just our home base, the Chesapeake Bay. Good Luck & Congratulations on your new 456, you will enjoy it. Gordon & Linda (Utopia III)
Jim, we have a 2000 h450 and use a 60 lb CQR w/ 200' of 3/8" chain + 150 of 3/4" rope as a primary anchor. We also ordered the boat in (from Hunter) w/ a Maxwell winless that (by removing the rode of one for the other) can be used on two anchor (chain or rope) systems. Or secondary anchor on the bow is a 40 or 44 lb bruce w/ 50' of 3/8" chain + 150 'of 3/4" rope. We have an aft anchor, a FX 37 Fortress w/ 20' of 5/16' chain & 200' off 1/2" rope. We also carry a FX 55 Fortress anchor & 150' of 3/8" chain & 400' of 1/2" & 3/4" rope in storage under floorboards in the salon. We did all this because: 1. We live on it full time. 2. We designed the anchoring system to take us form Maine to the Caribbean and points in between. 3. If you are a real cruiser, than in my opinion you need to be almost completely self sufferance. 4. And most important - WE SLEEP VERY WELL at anchor. The primary system has worked well for us in all locations, not just our home base, the Chesapeake Bay. Good Luck & Congratulations on your new 456, you will enjoy it. Gordon & Linda (Utopia III)
Gordon, we're like you. Same place, same gear.
The only differance was a matter of scale, except the FX 55. That was our storm anchor. Never been in the water. Anyone want to buy it?
The only differance was a matter of scale, except the FX 55. That was our storm anchor. Never been in the water. Anyone want to buy it?
2 links
http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Anchor/anchor_study.htm http://www.kaprojects.com/capnlee/articles/SS0209Anchoring.htm Check out these links for more info.... We use a 65#CQR and a 45# Danforth the Cqr has 200' of chain and the danforth is a chain line combo. We also have 2 fortress anchors in our aft lazzarett....There are many places in the bay you can and will drag.....we have a friend that uses a 65# CQR and a big Bruce and has dragged in the inner harbor.....We dropped Both bow anchors during a blow in annapolis last summer...we got in late and anchored by the navy "rock" wall.....really bumpy night...but we didnt move at all.
http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Anchor/anchor_study.htm http://www.kaprojects.com/capnlee/articles/SS0209Anchoring.htm Check out these links for more info.... We use a 65#CQR and a 45# Danforth the Cqr has 200' of chain and the danforth is a chain line combo. We also have 2 fortress anchors in our aft lazzarett....There are many places in the bay you can and will drag.....we have a friend that uses a 65# CQR and a big Bruce and has dragged in the inner harbor.....We dropped Both bow anchors during a blow in annapolis last summer...we got in late and anchored by the navy "rock" wall.....really bumpy night...but we didnt move at all.
Jim, I think you're asking the wrong question...
If you row away from your boat a bit, and then sit and look at her while she's snugged in, it will be a 'system' you are looking at, not an anchor. I think you want to reflect on what 'system' best meets your needs. The Bay: as accurately described earlier, it's mostly mud but with some hard pan (e.g. Inner Harbor but also in the bends of some tributaries with good tidal flow) and some shell, some but less grass than we'd all like (more would be a healthy sign) and also clay. The wx is normally benign but seeing 60 kts in a T/S is just about everyone's experience one or more times each season if you anchor out much. So...multiple bottom types and the rare but not unexpected gale/storm force wind. The Boat: Lots of freeboard & windage, not a lot of boat under the water, relatively light and with a tendency to sheer about on the hook, perhaps offset by stuff back aft. Relatively thin gauge anchor platform(s), perhaps cantilevered too far off the bow and with hard edges that can chafe nylon quickly. Rode: Consider adding enough chain to avoid chafe on the shell bottom and to settle her down in the frontal patterns & T/S's. (Personally, given the nature of the boat, I'd recommend H/T chain and keep the weight off while maintaining high WLL). Use shackles rated for your chain (they rarely are). If you go with enough chain that not all of it will be deployed in some anchorages, have several 20-25' snubber lines to hand and learn how to tie a rolling hitch (chain hooks fall off; plates are hard to attach when you're trying to do two things at once). Anchor: Given all the above and the investment in your nice boat, I can't imagine not carrying one large fluked and one burying anchor - Danforth/Fortress, CQR/Delta/Bruce - and being set up to handle two rodes via a windlass. Perhaps the new Hunters are differently equipped than what I've seen twice at boat shows this year, but I really urge you to look carefully at that anchor roller/platform if it's what I've been seeing. This arrangement isn't Hunter's alone (look at the Catalinas...) and, especially with the bigger boats like yours, a heavy wind and a sheering load on a thin-gauge, cantilevered platform is going to end up making you unhappy. I've seen some clever replacement/upgrade ideas posted by some of the Catalina owners. Good luck on a great upcoming season. Friends on the Bay are already sending me gloating emails about how the wx has turned down there! Jack
If you row away from your boat a bit, and then sit and look at her while she's snugged in, it will be a 'system' you are looking at, not an anchor. I think you want to reflect on what 'system' best meets your needs. The Bay: as accurately described earlier, it's mostly mud but with some hard pan (e.g. Inner Harbor but also in the bends of some tributaries with good tidal flow) and some shell, some but less grass than we'd all like (more would be a healthy sign) and also clay. The wx is normally benign but seeing 60 kts in a T/S is just about everyone's experience one or more times each season if you anchor out much. So...multiple bottom types and the rare but not unexpected gale/storm force wind. The Boat: Lots of freeboard & windage, not a lot of boat under the water, relatively light and with a tendency to sheer about on the hook, perhaps offset by stuff back aft. Relatively thin gauge anchor platform(s), perhaps cantilevered too far off the bow and with hard edges that can chafe nylon quickly. Rode: Consider adding enough chain to avoid chafe on the shell bottom and to settle her down in the frontal patterns & T/S's. (Personally, given the nature of the boat, I'd recommend H/T chain and keep the weight off while maintaining high WLL). Use shackles rated for your chain (they rarely are). If you go with enough chain that not all of it will be deployed in some anchorages, have several 20-25' snubber lines to hand and learn how to tie a rolling hitch (chain hooks fall off; plates are hard to attach when you're trying to do two things at once). Anchor: Given all the above and the investment in your nice boat, I can't imagine not carrying one large fluked and one burying anchor - Danforth/Fortress, CQR/Delta/Bruce - and being set up to handle two rodes via a windlass. Perhaps the new Hunters are differently equipped than what I've seen twice at boat shows this year, but I really urge you to look carefully at that anchor roller/platform if it's what I've been seeing. This arrangement isn't Hunter's alone (look at the Catalinas...) and, especially with the bigger boats like yours, a heavy wind and a sheering load on a thin-gauge, cantilevered platform is going to end up making you unhappy. I've seen some clever replacement/upgrade ideas posted by some of the Catalina owners. Good luck on a great upcoming season. Friends on the Bay are already sending me gloating emails about how the wx has turned down there! Jack
Jack, isn't it amazing how experience tends to
eliminate arguments?
Have you seen what I did to my anchor system?
eliminate arguments?
Have you seen what I did to my anchor system?One thing no one has mentioned is anchors ability
to reset. In the Chesapeake (along with many other places) you will see the tidal current change 180 deg throughout the day . That along with sudden thunderstorms that come up and spin gale force winds in a circle makes it very important for an anchors ability to reset. Here is an interesting PS article on different anchors in that regard. http://www.noteco.com/bulwagga/multimedia/practical_sail_pdf_Jan_01.pdf
to reset. In the Chesapeake (along with many other places) you will see the tidal current change 180 deg throughout the day . That along with sudden thunderstorms that come up and spin gale force winds in a circle makes it very important for an anchors ability to reset. Here is an interesting PS article on different anchors in that regard. http://www.noteco.com/bulwagga/multimedia/practical_sail_pdf_Jan_01.pdf
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