what is small?

[Banooma]

This conversation popped up today between a friend and me. Her entire sailing experience is 2 years as rail meat crew on deeper water racing boats. I've done hardly any racing, but have many years of practical experience on a Sunfish, a Boston Whaler Harpoon(~16 ft), a Hunter 23, and I'm about to embark on my life's Catalina 28 phase. When I mentioned to her that I'm in the process of selling my 23 and asked if she knew anyone who might be interested, she responded by saying that none of her friends sail "small" boats. I laughed because from my experience, 23 is still big. My Sunfish experiences are still my frame of reference - without which I don't think I'd ever have established my "feel" for wind and current shifts - and how to properly respond to them. From my perspective, without that experience I might never be as sensitive to conditions in boats with bigger LWL, and couldn't possibly sail them as well. Clearly it's subjective. What's small to you? What's big to you?

 

[Joe]

pay no attention to that idiot!....

She's obviously not a sailor or she would know that ALL good sailboat racers learned their skills competing at the dinghy racing level. It is your job, as her friend, to educate her as to this truth.Ask her if she knows who Dennis Conner is?

 

[sailaway78]

Kind of like beauty

When you refer to boats, I think small is like beauty. It's all in the eye of the beholder. But I personally wouldn't consider a 23 a small boat.

 

[higgs]

It is subjective

I guess I see small as ending around 28 ft. I do, however, remember when a 25 was not called small.

 

[Joseph Shirley]

Your 23 is small but don't be offended

you do learn better on small boats. Most top sailors come from the dingy classes and end up on much bigger boats. Your friend appears to be a snob, as no real sailor looks down on those who sail small boats and they have much to offer. I got my start in Thistles, 110's and others.Most people would probably class day sailors and overnighters like a 23 footer as small because they normally are trailerable and offer the minimum in creature comforts. Your 28 is on the cusp as is my 26 foot Thunderbird, because it has the capacity for weekend and week long cruising with minimum contact with civilization. Boats thought of as larger, are those capable of extended cruising of weeks to months on their own, more like my 37. But nothing is cast in stone, and many sailors successfully stretch this one mans definition, to the next level. So while you seem to be well within your rights to be offended by your friends response, don't be offended by having sailed on small boats. You are surely better off for it.Joe

 

[Ross]

My 7'9' dinghy is small. Any boat you can stand on the

rail and walk around on is not small. My 30 footer is just a 30 foot sloop. Whereas Liptons "Shamrock" was a big boat.

 

[Jim]

Less that 28 is too small for a

weekender..

 

[Deadline]

Small is...

Small-minded, like her.

 

[NautiDuck]

Oops!

"Less that 28 is too small for a weekender.."Oops,I guess we better stop taking, and enjoying, those 2-3 week cruises on our 25 footer!

 

[bffatcat]

whats small?

Its all in the eyes of the beholder. What some people think is small others think is big. Today I guess any cruiser that has standing headroom for the owner by definition would not be considered small. For many years I sailed a Pearson 10M which I thought was just about the right size to sail down the coast of Maine. But one day the boat seemed to big for me and my wife. The truth being the boat didnt get bigger we just got older. Today I sail a Pearson 26W. Your friend might consider it small but I don`t It seems about right for me for now. When It dosent well I`ll worry about that then. A friend has a cape dory typhoon. I go out with him for a daysail once in a while. The boat seems small to me but not to him. get the picture.

 

[Mike B]

It's not the size that matters

She was clearly being a snob. Remind her it's not the size that matters I've felt happy with all my boats, no matter their size. If I had a place to keep it one I'd love to build and sail a Hershoff (sp?)12 1/2. In my opinion one of the prettiest boats out there. If I'm ever at a point where I can do so, I will. Wouldn't mind an MX Ray either. Just don't think my body could handle the abuse it would take in sailing it. While a bigger boat will give you and the crew more room to line up with identical hats and T shirts, a small boat will give you more smiles per mile any day of the week. Do what's affordable and makes you happy. No matter how big you go and how much you spend there will be someone out there that went bigger with more bucks. Doesn't mean they'll know how to sail it though.

 

[Ross]

How about man and woman, dog and cat and parakeet

living aboard for five years on an O'Day 27.

 

[Benny17441]

You answered your own question as it is

relative to your perpective. Regarding weather any boat under 100' is a small boat. If you have to wax it any boat is just to big. The best size is the one that fits your type of sailing. Would not want a 40' daysailer nor would like to cross an ocean on a boat less than 36'.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Only Idiots Condemn

Size is a relative term for most of us, Sometimes it is relative to where we sail. A 25 footer could be considered large on a small lake and 32 feet can be considered small in a large ocean. I wasnt there when she said " none of her friends sail "small" boats". Whas it said in a condescending tone or was it purely descriptive? So before you idiots condemn a woman that you never met, maybe you ought to rethink the way you word stuff.The word small should not be an offensive word (in most instances, but thats another matter) it is a descriptive word.Now back to the original question.By industry standards, including Catalina they considered up to about 27' as small using other words like "Sport". Catalina called 28' to about 37' as Mid-size. This is now referred to as "Cruiser". Catalina classifies 38' and above as large, now called "Ocean". Most other manufacturers are pretty much in line with this.My first sailboat was an old Mac 25. It was big to me but whatever I thought, it was still a small boat. A rose by any other name is still a rose.Yes, Joe from Mission Bay, make no mistake....I definately was referring to you.Tony B

 

[Banooma]

relativity

Sure, I think it's relative to each of our experiences. And I'm sure some people can be perfectly happy spending weekends on a 23. There are some people who are physically too big to fit in a 23 foot boat. There are some people who love their house and want their boat to be as close to comforts of a house as possible if they're going to spend any length of time on it. There are others who sail because of their love of sailing, and choose their boat for the breadth of experiences it can give them. Of course, the bodies of water available to sail are also a relevant factor, as are budget and time. I'm sure for some it's important as a status symbol. There are many variables that one might count on to justify a perspective, but I'm thinking someone whose sailing experience is a notch above being a passenger and never sailed a boat herself really doesn't have a qualified opinion.

 

[Ross]

If they are too big to fit into a 23 foot boat

what do they use for a car? The Brits say if you want standing head room go on deck. You will hear all kinds of rationalizations about what size boat someone must have but "must have" is really "want to have". Escape from devils island won't depend on a boat being the "right" size.

 

[Jim]

Ducky, unless you and your wife are

5 feet tall a 250 is too small. The 270 is nice but the 280 is as small as I would go. I think the new 320 is perfect.It is only money and your last shirt has no pockets

 

[Roger (Ninette Manitoba)]

small is beautiful

Your friend may be suffering from a case of small-boatitis. (say it fast!) It is common with those who commonly sail anything that is two feet longer that your boat for any length of time, and do not have an open mind. It does not seem to matter if you have a 20' like I do, or a 35'er which appears to be in most sailing mags the upper limit of a small boat. (Like I say don't be offended) Large boats, if you will are generally in the 40-50 foot range, although on an ocean they can seem pretty small as well.At any rate don't be offended, she knows not her own ignorance. The fact remains that you can sail your small boat with your small (solo) crew, trailer it with your small (family) vehicle, and maintain it on your small yard (back yard/side yard/driveway), and maintain it on your small (not going there) budget, pushing it around the lake with your small auxilliary (outboard). Should you want to engage the subject further, you might point out that small boats leave the dock more often, are easier to sell because there are more people able to afford them than the larger boats, and can be used in more places, small lakes, rivers, reservoirs as opposed to haveing to live oceanside or near the Great Lakes.I hope my rant does not offend larger boat owners. Bigger boats are great, if that is what you want to do, but small is good too.

 

[LloydB]

it's small if

you can put it on a trailer and pull it with a pickup. It's large if it requires three crew or more to sail it. Having said that I'm sure that if asked, someone on this forum would explain how to safely solo a 30 meter after hauling it from LA to Texas. BTW I've noticed that my med/small SB shrinks several feet shortly after the boat show however waxing it seems to fix the problem. And although you didn't ask just a guess that she knows more about her sailboats than she knows about her friends.

 

[Jim]

small is beautiful

I agree 100%! I miss my SJ-21. I was trying to keep it until I retired and sold the big boat. I plan to down size some day and enjoy my life not working on the boat all the time.