What is performance difference of these two sails?

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Mich222

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Oct 20, 2008
142
Oday 222 USA
I currently have a CDI flex-furler, but my race crew has convinced me to switch to hank-on for next years race season. So I am looking for a 135% Hank-on sail for racing.
According to the Sailrite website, a 135% genoa for my Oday 222 would have a 22’4”Luff, 11’7” Foot and a 20’4”Leech. I found a nice used hank-on sail locally with dimensions of Luff 22', Foot 12'-3", and Leech 20'-7". Data is summarized in attached table. Luff and Leech dimensions are within 4 inches. The Foot length is 8 inches longer on the hank-on for sale locally. Would I be unhappy with this sail for racing? What differences would the two sails exhibit on an Oday 222? (Oday 222 boat dimensions are I=22.75' ', J=7.75' ', P= 23.75' ', E=10' ). According to what I have read, the Oday 222 with winches mounted on cabin top can accommodate up to a 145% genoa, and a 150% may not perform well in very light or very heavy air.
 

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JVB

JVB

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Jan 26, 2006
270
Schock Wavelength 24 Lake Murray, SC
If you are involved in handicap racing your handicap should be adjusted for the slightly larger sail. I would expect the race organizer to be leery of giving you an advantage. So at best you will get a fair rating.

For racing you really need a new sail made for the boat. Try www.rollytasker.com for lots of bang for the buck.
 
S

s sauer

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Jun 4, 2004
844
Hunter 28.5 Tolchester, MD
Furling to hank-on

Your furler has a luff groove into which your present sail's luff tape slides as you hoist it. You may be able to drop that sail and hoist a 'racing cut' sail however it would also need a luff tape and not be a hank on unless you remove the furler and it's extruded foil.

Going back to the dimensions yo u quoted, sounds like the hank on sail will fit the rig and be larger than a 135% but not larger than a 150-155% so you should not incur a penalty under PHRF. What you are missing for serrious racing, is that the sail should be measured for maximum size on your rig. a used sail may be worse that the one you presently have depending on its draft and the condition of the leach, etc.
 
Joe

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,323
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
s sauer said:
Your furler has a luff groove into which your present sail's luff tape slides as you hoist it. You may be able to drop that sail and hoist a 'racing cut' sail however it would also need a luff tape and not be a hank on unless you remove the furler and it's extruded foil.

Going back to the dimensions yo u quoted, sounds like the hank on sail will fit the rig and be larger than a 135% but not larger than a 150-155% so you should not incur a penalty under PHRF. What you are missing for serrious racing, is that the sail should be measured for maximum size on your rig. a used sail may be worse that the one you presently have depending on its draft and the condition of the leach, etc.
Click to expand
His CDI furler doesn't work like that.... You can't control luff tension with the boat halyard, that's why his crew wants to switch over to a simple hank on system...

In my opinion the sail he mentions will fit his boat without modification. However, I agree with you that there is no advantage to changing over without an above average replacement.

I'd suggest calling a few reputable lofts for a consultation and quote. They will explain the performance options and related costs. They will also tell him how to measure the boat for a custom fit.

But the main point is... don't buy a crappy sail.... or you'll be slow.
 
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BroadReach

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Jan 22, 1999
62
Hunter 35 PENSACOLA, FL
Mast Rake

Make Sure Once You Settle On A New Sail, Be It Used Or New That You Change The Mast Rake To Accommodate The Larger Sail.

As Your Crew Has Pointed Out One Must Be Able To Adjust The Luft Tension On Your Head Sail Your Cdi Roller Is Not Made To Do That

Sail On
Broad Reach
 
Don12364

Don12364

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Dec 2, 2003
1,637
Hunter 376 Warsash, England --
Seems a great sacrifice for a sail which can be instantly furled out of the way for spinnakering (and cruising) etc.
If you need to adjust luff tension under way then release the tack and fit a tackle - led aft. Then haul the sail up the luff a few more inches and trim from the tack.
BTW: You will need several such hanked on sails to suit varying wind strengths.

If you do go ahead then you will need approx 10" clearance between your current 135% sail and the genoa car to accommodate the extra LPG length.

Drew it out to scale using my small PC drawing prog. Looks a good fit. See pdf below.
New sail will be 145% and I wonder why you chose 135% because, until recently, 150% was the norm for No 1 genoas.
As others warn, you need to disclose the larger sail to the handicap committee.
 

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M

Mich222

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Oct 20, 2008
142
Oday 222 USA
Thanks to all for the input.

Donalex, Thanks for the drawing- very helpful. To answer your question, the sail maker recommended a 135% for racing. Also-there is additional discussion for proper maximum sail size on an Oday 222 from the SBO archives: http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=616636&highlight=genoa
quotes from this discussion thread:
1. “There are a couple of other 222's on our lake that have 150% Genoas,
and they struggle with getting good performance in very light air, and heavy air.My opinion - the 135 is the way to go.”

2. “If your 222 is like most and has her head sail sheet winches mounted atop the cabin, you're limited to about a 145% Genoa.”

3. “Mark - I also have a 135% on my '222 - it performs great up to about 17 -18 mph winds. Anything over that and I am overpowered.”

4. “I think that a 150 is way too big for that boat Mark. I'm using a 125% on a CDI FF-2 Roller Furler on my 86 OD 222”
 
Bill Roosa

Bill Roosa

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Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
The reason the 150s don't preform well in light airs is they are too heavy to fill. the reason in higher winds is they are overpowered. Taking the middle road of 135% is not going to solve either of those problems.
If you are racing you need a larger sail inventory. Period. Having only one jib is exactly like having only one gear in your car. It will go well in that gear at only a certain speed.
Your 135 could (you did not state the weight of fabric) go well in light airs and might be strong enough for the heaver stuff but it is a compromise. If you are trying to race with only one gear then you should be golden but I'm positive you will not be as competitive as the boat with two head sails.
BTW those two head sails will also be a compromise between the now 2 speed ranges and will not work well when out of those ranges. A sail is really only optimal for about a 4 knot apparent speed range so; 0 knots pack it, 1-4 knots, 4-8 knots, 8-12 knots, and 12-16 knots would be 4 jibs to cover 1-16 knots apparent wind speed. Racing is expensive.
I'd be looking into the most common wind speed and the second most common wind speed where you sail and buying a sail for those wind speeds. FWIW
 
mark_swart

mark_swart

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Sep 25, 2008
385
Harpoon 5.2 Honolulu, HI
Bet you could find a used mylar 150 for fairly cheap, given that it's a pretty small sail.
I don't think switching to a hank on headsail is going to be a magic bullet.
Is the headsail tension the main problem you are trying to fix by going to hank on? Weight?
 
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