I am pondering a watermaker for our Mac 25, but would would like to hear from those with experience. Anyone have a good recommendation?
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towed water maker
I have no experience with this model, but the reviews, specs and prices are VERY impressive - and it's self powered! I want one. Good luck!
I have no experience with this model, but the reviews, specs and prices are VERY impressive - and it's self powered! I want one. Good luck!
March issue of Sail Mag.
There is a good size article on water makers in the latest Sail Mag. It compares types and prices! Might help!
There is a good size article on water makers in the latest Sail Mag. It compares types and prices! Might help!
Why?
Just curious as to why? Fresh water boat would seem to have all the water it could need. Have you read the attached article(Related Link). I have seen the handhelds on E-Bay. I think that is all that one would need unless crossing an ocean. I would it put it in the abandon ship bag. It assumes you already have a liferaft.
Just curious as to why? Fresh water boat would seem to have all the water it could need. Have you read the attached article(Related Link). I have seen the handhelds on E-Bay. I think that is all that one would need unless crossing an ocean. I would it put it in the abandon ship bag. It assumes you already have a liferaft.
Spend time on the ocean
We spend a month or so throughout the year on the ocean, but we have been tethered to being near marinas (for showers, etc.). We would like to be able to go farther and still have fresh water showers. We can always drink beer, but it's kinda sticky to shower with.
We spend a month or so throughout the year on the ocean, but we have been tethered to being near marinas (for showers, etc.). We would like to be able to go farther and still have fresh water showers. We can always drink beer, but it's kinda sticky to shower with.
Expensive water
Besides the initial and maintanance costs you should be aware they are very particular to water quality. In most harbors the water is to dirty to run the watermaker without clogging or worse. Also, you must use them. If you let them sit the membrane dries out and must be replaced. They are great on ocean going power boats where there is ample engine power for long periods. Good luck
Besides the initial and maintanance costs you should be aware they are very particular to water quality. In most harbors the water is to dirty to run the watermaker without clogging or worse. Also, you must use them. If you let them sit the membrane dries out and must be replaced. They are great on ocean going power boats where there is ample engine power for long periods. Good luck
George and Ed may be on to something
The link below is to a recent article on the subject, posted on SailNet by Don Casey, who objectively questioned the value of a watermaker. Definitely food for thought. Peter
The link below is to a recent article on the subject, posted on SailNet by Don Casey, who objectively questioned the value of a watermaker. Definitely food for thought. Peter
Lug that jug
I have fought many battles with the water devil.Kids are your enemy so remember to tie them up properly so they can not get to the water faucet. You can not hear the pump knocking away as the children splash away gallons of water that were rowed in your dink with one bad oar lock in a choppy anchorage with a 15 knot wind aginst you and a riptide to add some adventure to your twenty gallons of water at 25 cents a gallon you lugged from the beach.Oh and don't forget you had to row that ancorage twice. I feel better now thats off my chest. I love jugs I have all my gugs the same blue color (looks like water) I also keep them pristine I am a clean freek when it comes to my water jugs clorox is the key word. I also have some little strainers I use on the deck fills. If I fuel the boat I fill everything sinks and all and use it to play catch up on cleaning. I also use the strongest line I can find and have stainless pans which I drag behind the boat and the spin wash gets them clean and then a light rinse. We find ourselfs getting quite inovative when it comes to rain take avantage of it sa soon as it stops a hard down pour the salinity drops to a very low level and it can feel real good to take a dip the top two feet of water are fairly sweet. The same thing applies to the rainstorm shower freeze your butt off method get your spedo on and stand in the rain in a stiff breez this will refresh you real quick. If you do the last method in the anchorage in a thunder storm with the lightning crashing about people never bother to come over and try and borrow anything.I think it must work best for me being old and in the spedo all soaped up and the crashing lightning is a sacary sight the sea monster effect.Forget the water maker jugs strapped to the rails are cool it says hey I am cruising man cruising. And in closing fix that oar lock falling backwards into the bottom of the dink makes you look like a dork.
I have fought many battles with the water devil.Kids are your enemy so remember to tie them up properly so they can not get to the water faucet. You can not hear the pump knocking away as the children splash away gallons of water that were rowed in your dink with one bad oar lock in a choppy anchorage with a 15 knot wind aginst you and a riptide to add some adventure to your twenty gallons of water at 25 cents a gallon you lugged from the beach.Oh and don't forget you had to row that ancorage twice. I feel better now thats off my chest. I love jugs I have all my gugs the same blue color (looks like water) I also keep them pristine I am a clean freek when it comes to my water jugs clorox is the key word. I also have some little strainers I use on the deck fills. If I fuel the boat I fill everything sinks and all and use it to play catch up on cleaning. I also use the strongest line I can find and have stainless pans which I drag behind the boat and the spin wash gets them clean and then a light rinse. We find ourselfs getting quite inovative when it comes to rain take avantage of it sa soon as it stops a hard down pour the salinity drops to a very low level and it can feel real good to take a dip the top two feet of water are fairly sweet. The same thing applies to the rainstorm shower freeze your butt off method get your spedo on and stand in the rain in a stiff breez this will refresh you real quick. If you do the last method in the anchorage in a thunder storm with the lightning crashing about people never bother to come over and try and borrow anything.I think it must work best for me being old and in the spedo all soaped up and the crashing lightning is a sacary sight the sea monster effect.Forget the water maker jugs strapped to the rails are cool it says hey I am cruising man cruising. And in closing fix that oar lock falling backwards into the bottom of the dink makes you look like a dork.
Where does this need for 'Stuff' come from...?
While anchored in Sapodilla Bay, T&C a few years ago, good friends explained to us that we probably weren't actually enjoying living aboard out 42' ketch - the reason being that we were 'camping out' - as we lacked some of the systems aboard we really needed. The basis for this well-intentioned seminar was our lack of a watermaker and a similar absence for a large freezer. Their big 43' ferro cutter would produce 200 AH/day of 12V charging each morning (all of which they used and 'needed', if you can imagine) while producing copious amounts of fresh water, with which they showered at length and washed down their boat. Instead, being ill-equipped and not knowing any better, we just waited for the front, enjoyed a freshly washed boat and collected 50 gals of rainwater in perhaps 30 mins while staying dry belowdecks. 'Stuff', 'systems' and 'must-haves' seem to be where it's at these days, commercially speaking. We still see the glossy new-boat ads (tho' not all that many except for the high-volume, price-boat manufacturers) but the mags and boat shows overflow with 'stuff', all of it 'important' or 'necessary' or promising to add to our please...and all of it taking up space, adding weight and a need for maintenance (sooner or later) plus the weight/space for spares, and more often than not requiring amps (AC or DC, take your pick) and a sizeable chunk of our sailing budget. Some time ago, sailing (and related activities like boat-owning and cruising) seems to have slipped into a parallel universe for most of us. The critical issues - and certainly ones discussed at length on this BB and others - have evolved into which systems to install, which brands to favor, and to haul off with us as much of our home lifestyle as we can. The fact that we haul this lifestyle only as far as a slip, after which most of our boats rarely move more than a few miles from homebase, has become so normal as to seem...well, normal. RVs at the water's edge. Or a mobile Mini-USA when we're off visiting foreign shores. Is any of this wrong? Not in my mind, altho' I would describe it as 'distracting' or 'distorting'. Were our friends right - were we lacking in essentials that would have increased our pleasure, perhaps keeping us from wanting to cruise even further afield? Well, their boat's buried in a snowdrift near Toronto now and, altho' I'd love to have their weekly paychecks, we continue to find adventure and pleasure by cruising on a boat where we - gasp! - need to conserve water on occasion. A watermaker on a 25' boat? Oh, my... Jack
While anchored in Sapodilla Bay, T&C a few years ago, good friends explained to us that we probably weren't actually enjoying living aboard out 42' ketch - the reason being that we were 'camping out' - as we lacked some of the systems aboard we really needed. The basis for this well-intentioned seminar was our lack of a watermaker and a similar absence for a large freezer. Their big 43' ferro cutter would produce 200 AH/day of 12V charging each morning (all of which they used and 'needed', if you can imagine) while producing copious amounts of fresh water, with which they showered at length and washed down their boat. Instead, being ill-equipped and not knowing any better, we just waited for the front, enjoyed a freshly washed boat and collected 50 gals of rainwater in perhaps 30 mins while staying dry belowdecks. 'Stuff', 'systems' and 'must-haves' seem to be where it's at these days, commercially speaking. We still see the glossy new-boat ads (tho' not all that many except for the high-volume, price-boat manufacturers) but the mags and boat shows overflow with 'stuff', all of it 'important' or 'necessary' or promising to add to our please...and all of it taking up space, adding weight and a need for maintenance (sooner or later) plus the weight/space for spares, and more often than not requiring amps (AC or DC, take your pick) and a sizeable chunk of our sailing budget. Some time ago, sailing (and related activities like boat-owning and cruising) seems to have slipped into a parallel universe for most of us. The critical issues - and certainly ones discussed at length on this BB and others - have evolved into which systems to install, which brands to favor, and to haul off with us as much of our home lifestyle as we can. The fact that we haul this lifestyle only as far as a slip, after which most of our boats rarely move more than a few miles from homebase, has become so normal as to seem...well, normal. RVs at the water's edge. Or a mobile Mini-USA when we're off visiting foreign shores. Is any of this wrong? Not in my mind, altho' I would describe it as 'distracting' or 'distorting'. Were our friends right - were we lacking in essentials that would have increased our pleasure, perhaps keeping us from wanting to cruise even further afield? Well, their boat's buried in a snowdrift near Toronto now and, altho' I'd love to have their weekly paychecks, we continue to find adventure and pleasure by cruising on a boat where we - gasp! - need to conserve water on occasion. A watermaker on a 25' boat? Oh, my... Jack
I second that, Jack
More "stuff", "systems" or "gadgets" on a boat means more things that will eventually fail. How many sailors today could plot a course if their GPS goes south on them? I have no A/C, no built in CD player, no cockpit speakers, no RADAR, no chartplotter, no auto pilot, no TV, no washer/dryer. I have lots of books, friends, a few beers and the world's biggest swimming pool!
More "stuff", "systems" or "gadgets" on a boat means more things that will eventually fail. How many sailors today could plot a course if their GPS goes south on them? I have no A/C, no built in CD player, no cockpit speakers, no RADAR, no chartplotter, no auto pilot, no TV, no washer/dryer. I have lots of books, friends, a few beers and the world's biggest swimming pool!
It's called Marketing!!
The industry that caters to the boating community have people sitting around trying to come up with ideas to convince people that they can't exist unless they have their newest invention. It's isn't really based on your needs as an individual, it is based on their need to sell us a lot of expensive stuff that we don't really need for a whole lot of money.
The industry that caters to the boating community have people sitting around trying to come up with ideas to convince people that they can't exist unless they have their newest invention. It's isn't really based on your needs as an individual, it is based on their need to sell us a lot of expensive stuff that we don't really need for a whole lot of money.
You give marketers too much credit, JB
What they really do (the successful ones, anyway) is sit around listening to what people ask for, then provide it. ph.
What they really do (the successful ones, anyway) is sit around listening to what people ask for, then provide it. ph.
Your Right Phil!
We are probably our own worst enemies when it comes to gadgets, if we didn't want them, they probably wouldn't be on the market. I do like to keep up with what's new, however, I have two lists. What I would like to have and what I really need. I find that the list of things that I really need is a lot shorter. Every time that I get to thinking about buying something that I would like to have, something that I really need breaks down. Aaah! The joy of ownership!!
We are probably our own worst enemies when it comes to gadgets, if we didn't want them, they probably wouldn't be on the market. I do like to keep up with what's new, however, I have two lists. What I would like to have and what I really need. I find that the list of things that I really need is a lot shorter. Every time that I get to thinking about buying something that I would like to have, something that I really need breaks down. Aaah! The joy of ownership!!
Watermaker on a Mac 25?
I too once considered a watermaker for my Mac 26, for about 5 minutes. When you consider the costs (both initial and maintenance) compared to the size of the boat and just how far I'd be willing to take her into the ocean, a watermaker didn't make sense for me. I can buy a lot of tanks and jerry cans for about 10% of what a watermaker would cost. About the only way I would consider getting one would be a small manual operated one for use in an abandon ship bag, but even then it's a long way down the list. I do have a question though, for those of you who know about such things. I can understand that the water around a marina would have too much oil and diesel in the water to use a watermaker, but couldn't the water be run through some kind of a prefilter to remove that stuff before it got to the membrane? Just wondering.
I too once considered a watermaker for my Mac 26, for about 5 minutes. When you consider the costs (both initial and maintenance) compared to the size of the boat and just how far I'd be willing to take her into the ocean, a watermaker didn't make sense for me. I can buy a lot of tanks and jerry cans for about 10% of what a watermaker would cost. About the only way I would consider getting one would be a small manual operated one for use in an abandon ship bag, but even then it's a long way down the list. I do have a question though, for those of you who know about such things. I can understand that the water around a marina would have too much oil and diesel in the water to use a watermaker, but couldn't the water be run through some kind of a prefilter to remove that stuff before it got to the membrane? Just wondering.
Hummph!
Thread should be entitled "Fuddy duddy curmudgeons gripe about young whippersnappers who can't appreciate the good old days of no comforts." But yeah, on a 25-foot boat?
Thread should be entitled "Fuddy duddy curmudgeons gripe about young whippersnappers who can't appreciate the good old days of no comforts." But yeah, on a 25-foot boat?
OK, how many of you guys have been out there?
I have. And the reason we were free to enjoy our travels, was the water maker. Decadent! All the fresh water we wanted. Engine driven! Fuel where the second water tank was located. Batteries where the first water tank was located. Where was the water you ask? In the holding tank. (it was never a holding tank) We had a wonderful shower anytime we wanted and it was pure water. Remember your history books about cisterns? In the Caribbean, they are just that, history! Water makers have taken over. And for cruisers, never have we been as free! As far as putting one on a 25 footer, I don't know. But it works on 34 feet. In fact, a water maker is why 34 feet worked for us. But that is just my personal EXPERIENCE, I could be wrong! P.S. Jeff, yes, oil prefilters are an option with every water maker I know of. I've never been in a marina that would foul a water maker though. Even so, locating your water inlet well below the waterline will protect your system. And also Jeff, the smaller the boat, the MORE a water maker will free you and the more range you have. (within limits, you still have to power it) One little machine turns your whole boat into a tank of pure water. P.S.2 George. I had a spare membrane that was stored back home for over five years, (improperly) It had dried out. I fixed it because of a tip I received from a fellow in the industry. I filled the pressure vessel with rubbing alcohol and let it sit for a half hour. Then poured it out, plugged the vessel, flew it to Antigua, hired someone to make up new hoses and it worked. I only got 12-15 gallons an hour extra instead of 20, but, what the hey? P.S.3 Peter, I just read Don Caseys' article. He is a sailor whos' knowledge I respect. His points are valid except he doesn't say where the polluted harbor was, (I've only been in one) and his cost estimates are about double the actual cost for a sailor who can do much of the work to build up a system. Another cost savings of a water maker, is being able to give your boat a fresh water rinse after coming in to an anchorage. The savings in damage to your topside gear will further amortize the cost of the water maker another 50% or so.
I have. And the reason we were free to enjoy our travels, was the water maker. Decadent! All the fresh water we wanted. Engine driven! Fuel where the second water tank was located. Batteries where the first water tank was located. Where was the water you ask? In the holding tank. (it was never a holding tank) We had a wonderful shower anytime we wanted and it was pure water. Remember your history books about cisterns? In the Caribbean, they are just that, history! Water makers have taken over. And for cruisers, never have we been as free! As far as putting one on a 25 footer, I don't know. But it works on 34 feet. In fact, a water maker is why 34 feet worked for us. But that is just my personal EXPERIENCE, I could be wrong! P.S. Jeff, yes, oil prefilters are an option with every water maker I know of. I've never been in a marina that would foul a water maker though. Even so, locating your water inlet well below the waterline will protect your system. And also Jeff, the smaller the boat, the MORE a water maker will free you and the more range you have. (within limits, you still have to power it) One little machine turns your whole boat into a tank of pure water. P.S.2 George. I had a spare membrane that was stored back home for over five years, (improperly) It had dried out. I fixed it because of a tip I received from a fellow in the industry. I filled the pressure vessel with rubbing alcohol and let it sit for a half hour. Then poured it out, plugged the vessel, flew it to Antigua, hired someone to make up new hoses and it worked. I only got 12-15 gallons an hour extra instead of 20, but, what the hey? P.S.3 Peter, I just read Don Caseys' article. He is a sailor whos' knowledge I respect. His points are valid except he doesn't say where the polluted harbor was, (I've only been in one) and his cost estimates are about double the actual cost for a sailor who can do much of the work to build up a system. Another cost savings of a water maker, is being able to give your boat a fresh water rinse after coming in to an anchorage. The savings in damage to your topside gear will further amortize the cost of the water maker another 50% or so.
Jeff, prefilters won't eliminate contaminants...
...sufficient to protect the membrane. And apparently Fred sailed in the 'clean Caribbean' while we were over in the parallel universe 'dirty Caribbean' where folks were far more reluctant to run watermakers in any contained estuary, bay or harbor where a large collection of yachts (or worse, commercial & govt'l vessels) were located. One boat pumping a contaminated bilge, if he's anchored in the wrong place, is probably all it takes. When we sailed across the Central Caribbean we found almost everywhere we went to be unpopulated by boats; contamination would have been of far less concern other than near marinas and working harbors. But water was available everywhere; when would we have run a watermaker? If (when?) I head into the Pacific, I'd definitely carry a watermaker; distances are far greater, shore supplies far more limited (sometimes, if the local rainfall is down, unavailable whatsoever) and what if you lose the rig or rudder and have to stay out a LOT longer? But for the waters most boaters sail in, including where Don Casey does his thing, water is abundant and - relative to the costs of a watermaker - cheap if not free. And BTW cisterns are anything but history. In the T&C Is. no home site gets a building permit without a collection/cistern system being included in the design. I'd bet that's somewhat the norm in the Eastern Caribbean. In support of collecting rainwater on our boats, I'd point out that EVERY island we visited featured rain collection guards and gutters on almost every flat surface except the roads. RO water is nice but pricey when compared with rain water. Also, let me contradict myself (one more) time. The one place in the Caribbrean where I would have wanted a watermaker IF staying for an extended period of time was Haiti. The local well was contaminated with cholera and the wonderful people on Ile a Vache, perhaps our favorite stop in the entire Caribbean, had two choices in the dry months: drink and get sick, or go without water. Now that kinda makes you think, doesn't it...? Jack
...sufficient to protect the membrane. And apparently Fred sailed in the 'clean Caribbean' while we were over in the parallel universe 'dirty Caribbean' where folks were far more reluctant to run watermakers in any contained estuary, bay or harbor where a large collection of yachts (or worse, commercial & govt'l vessels) were located. One boat pumping a contaminated bilge, if he's anchored in the wrong place, is probably all it takes. When we sailed across the Central Caribbean we found almost everywhere we went to be unpopulated by boats; contamination would have been of far less concern other than near marinas and working harbors. But water was available everywhere; when would we have run a watermaker? If (when?) I head into the Pacific, I'd definitely carry a watermaker; distances are far greater, shore supplies far more limited (sometimes, if the local rainfall is down, unavailable whatsoever) and what if you lose the rig or rudder and have to stay out a LOT longer? But for the waters most boaters sail in, including where Don Casey does his thing, water is abundant and - relative to the costs of a watermaker - cheap if not free. And BTW cisterns are anything but history. In the T&C Is. no home site gets a building permit without a collection/cistern system being included in the design. I'd bet that's somewhat the norm in the Eastern Caribbean. In support of collecting rainwater on our boats, I'd point out that EVERY island we visited featured rain collection guards and gutters on almost every flat surface except the roads. RO water is nice but pricey when compared with rain water. Also, let me contradict myself (one more) time. The one place in the Caribbrean where I would have wanted a watermaker IF staying for an extended period of time was Haiti. The local well was contaminated with cholera and the wonderful people on Ile a Vache, perhaps our favorite stop in the entire Caribbean, had two choices in the dry months: drink and get sick, or go without water. Now that kinda makes you think, doesn't it...? Jack
Jack, I added a little more this morning too, see below,
and where is T&C and these dirty harbors? We anchor out. We don't pull into commercial harbors. Why would you, TO GET WATER? And you are a brave soul to visit Haiti. We reached the border with DR and went north. Oh, and in our part of the country, we are required to have a working WELL in order to build a house. We live on salt water. The newspapers still quote water experts that claim our fresh water reserves are an irreplaceable resource because we can't make our own. True, I read it. Old thinking, or bureaucracy protectionism. Oh, Antigua is all RO. Huge plant with locomotive engines. P.S. The only contained harbor I can think of is English Harbor. There must be more. Very few boats use it anyway. They're next door at Falmouth. (sp) Jack I don't know what universe you sail in, but since we started our trip in 91, I can think of only one boat 'out there' without a watermaker and they sold it within a month of our acquaintance. P.S. Jack, we didn't have an oil prefilter, just a regular set. Our ROs showed no sign of degradation. Still as good as the day we left. And you're right about prefilters not eliminating contaminants. But the RO membrane will. These things work at the molecular level. Not even viruses get by.
and where is T&C and these dirty harbors? We anchor out. We don't pull into commercial harbors. Why would you, TO GET WATER? And you are a brave soul to visit Haiti. We reached the border with DR and went north. Oh, and in our part of the country, we are required to have a working WELL in order to build a house. We live on salt water. The newspapers still quote water experts that claim our fresh water reserves are an irreplaceable resource because we can't make our own. True, I read it. Old thinking, or bureaucracy protectionism. Oh, Antigua is all RO. Huge plant with locomotive engines. P.S. The only contained harbor I can think of is English Harbor. There must be more. Very few boats use it anyway. They're next door at Falmouth. (sp) Jack I don't know what universe you sail in, but since we started our trip in 91, I can think of only one boat 'out there' without a watermaker and they sold it within a month of our acquaintance. P.S. Jack, we didn't have an oil prefilter, just a regular set. Our ROs showed no sign of degradation. Still as good as the day we left. And you're right about prefilters not eliminating contaminants. But the RO membrane will. These things work at the molecular level. Not even viruses get by.
FWIW, Karen Thorndike sailed solo around...
the world in a 36 foot cutter with a 40 gallon water tank. She was the first woman to do so, and without a water maker. Her longest leg was from Argentina to Tasmania. About that she said as a society we have become way over washed.
the world in a 36 foot cutter with a 40 gallon water tank. She was the first woman to do so, and without a water maker. Her longest leg was from Argentina to Tasmania. About that she said as a society we have become way over washed.
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