I have one on my Hunter.I know it involves swept back spreaders but that's it.How is it different from any other rig?What's the pros and cons?Why would one manufacturer use them and not another?
What is a B
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B
advantage - suppose to be stronger racers used them 25 years ago for performance you can tune or prebend the mast to improve sail shape disadvantage cost more to build weigh more sails wear on spreaders going down wind some boat builder don't use them cause the don't want their boats to look like Hunters (grin)
advantage - suppose to be stronger racers used them 25 years ago for performance you can tune or prebend the mast to improve sail shape disadvantage cost more to build weigh more sails wear on spreaders going down wind some boat builder don't use them cause the don't want their boats to look like Hunters (grin)
Another advantage
Because they have no backstay, a B&R rig can support a large, roachy mainsail (with significant area behind where the backstay would be, especially at the top.) Because the area added at the top of the sail can be very efficient, the configuration of a large main and smaller, fractional foresail is a trend in modern sailo rigs. David Lady Lillie
Because they have no backstay, a B&R rig can support a large, roachy mainsail (with significant area behind where the backstay would be, especially at the top.) Because the area added at the top of the sail can be very efficient, the configuration of a large main and smaller, fractional foresail is a trend in modern sailo rigs. David Lady Lillie
AND, the rig can look like mine, Mastheaded.
With a hydraulic backstay adjuster and a high aspect ratio main. And a real genoa but a fast PHRF rating. Bummer. IMHO Hunter is using the ability of the B&R to not carry a backstay to move the center of effort and reduce that effort to a less powerful rig that goes with it's 'sofa lounge' purchasers. XXXXX Don't hit, ow!
With a hydraulic backstay adjuster and a high aspect ratio main. And a real genoa but a fast PHRF rating. Bummer. IMHO Hunter is using the ability of the B&R to not carry a backstay to move the center of effort and reduce that effort to a less powerful rig that goes with it's 'sofa lounge' purchasers. XXXXX Don't hit, ow!
Nope, was Ridder
It is Bergstrom and Ridder and not sure of ther status since Lar's Bergstrom was killed in a expermential airplane. Cliff
It is Bergstrom and Ridder and not sure of ther status since Lar's Bergstrom was killed in a expermential airplane. Cliff
The B
I'm guessing that Bergstrom and Ridder were not sailors, but were makers of stainless rigging wire and fittings (smile). Their B
I'm guessing that Bergstrom and Ridder were not sailors, but were makers of stainless rigging wire and fittings (smile). Their B
Warren
It's a good thing you said that you are guessing. Lets go down the list; 1. Wrong, world class sailors. 2. Wrong, only ONE wire per side more than a conventional rig. Count them. I've replaced mine. 3.Wrong, have you ever parked next to a Catalina 4.Wrong. righting moment is better. Just like more spreaders make for a lighter rig. 5.Wrong. reaching is faster downwind. And that blew your cover. You are just trying to fire up this web site. You aren't even a sailor. ALL SAILORS KNOW THAT. 6.Wrong. The rig is patented. Hunter has to pay.
It's a good thing you said that you are guessing. Lets go down the list; 1. Wrong, world class sailors. 2. Wrong, only ONE wire per side more than a conventional rig. Count them. I've replaced mine. 3.Wrong, have you ever parked next to a Catalina 4.Wrong. righting moment is better. Just like more spreaders make for a lighter rig. 5.Wrong. reaching is faster downwind. And that blew your cover. You are just trying to fire up this web site. You aren't even a sailor. ALL SAILORS KNOW THAT. 6.Wrong. The rig is patented. Hunter has to pay.
Tom,
A couple of posts got chopped up on this thread, mine included. I was saying that lots of us with older Hunters have B&Rs that are mastheaded with a backstay. I changed my adjuster to hydraulic. We have high aspect mains with really real genoas. A MAJOR disadvantage is our PHRF rating, ouch; Fast. But some of that might also be because of the really real deep fin keel or a shape more like a sailboat and not a motorhome.
Sorry for the comparison but I just got off the road after 300 miles. I only saw one sailboat on the road.
A couple of posts got chopped up on this thread, mine included. I was saying that lots of us with older Hunters have B&Rs that are mastheaded with a backstay. I changed my adjuster to hydraulic. We have high aspect mains with really real genoas. A MAJOR disadvantage is our PHRF rating, ouch; Fast. But some of that might also be because of the really real deep fin keel or a shape more like a sailboat and not a motorhome.
Sorry for the comparison but I just got off the road after 300 miles. I only saw one sailboat on the road.
Fred F... Let Me Get This Right...
You have a sailboat with all kinds of 12 volt stuff, inverters, pressure pumps, mobile heads, communications gear, and for a break, you drive 300 miles in a motor home with 12 volt stuff, inverter, etc? I guess once you've figured out all that stuff on a boat, a motor home is just one with tires. And, I also suppose that 300 miles might not be as tiring as a 300 mile slog to windward. Still, Fred, we do wonder about you sometimes.... ;D Rick D.
You have a sailboat with all kinds of 12 volt stuff, inverters, pressure pumps, mobile heads, communications gear, and for a break, you drive 300 miles in a motor home with 12 volt stuff, inverter, etc? I guess once you've figured out all that stuff on a boat, a motor home is just one with tires. And, I also suppose that 300 miles might not be as tiring as a 300 mile slog to windward. Still, Fred, we do wonder about you sometimes.... ;D Rick D.
Rick, you caught me. Actually it's a truck camper.
And it has all that stuff, generator instead of inverter to run the air conditioning. But the 'ol truck ain't what she use to be. My back is sore from that old seat I should have replaced a couple of years ago. And the Sesquest state park quitness patrol ranger made us turn off the generator at dusk. The camper was cooking from being out all day. We survived. And no shore power either. And the name of the park has nothing to do with the sea. It is the jumping off spot to Mt. St Helens. Everything is named for the sea up here. Look at my home address. Gotta go. The brakes died too! Again.
And it has all that stuff, generator instead of inverter to run the air conditioning. But the 'ol truck ain't what she use to be. My back is sore from that old seat I should have replaced a couple of years ago. And the Sesquest state park quitness patrol ranger made us turn off the generator at dusk. The camper was cooking from being out all day. We survived. And no shore power either. And the name of the park has nothing to do with the sea. It is the jumping off spot to Mt. St Helens. Everything is named for the sea up here. Look at my home address. Gotta go. The brakes died too! Again.
Rick
Ok, the brakes are new again. The reason they died AGAIN is because the are the same size as the stock brakes on my 69 Camaro. The originals are still working great. Guess GM figured a good thing would work on a 4x4 full size with a 2 ton camper. *box Rick, you don't drive one of those new Hunter motorhomes do you? *x
Ok, the brakes are new again. The reason they died AGAIN is because the are the same size as the stock brakes on my 69 Camaro. The originals are still working great. Guess GM figured a good thing would work on a 4x4 full size with a 2 ton camper. *box Rick, you don't drive one of those new Hunter motorhomes do you? *x
Fred's Obsession...
No, Fred, I don't think so... its a Legend 40.5. I do have two 'classic' cars which I turn over to someone to service with reluctance, so i know what you mean. PS: hope they didn't use the same springs and shocks too... RD
No, Fred, I don't think so... its a Legend 40.5. I do have two 'classic' cars which I turn over to someone to service with reluctance, so i know what you mean. PS: hope they didn't use the same springs and shocks too...
RDJust for Phred....
Fred: You may need a remedial reading, or perhaps sailing, lesson. In my post, I was poking fun at having all that wire in the B&R rig, so lighten up and smile now and then. Or, perhaps you really like the idea of replacing all that wire, end fittings, and swages when the time comes? As to sailing downwind, you may want to note that I distinctly said I don't race anymore. Sure, gybing down wind while broad reaching MAY be faster at times, but not all the time when you are connecting the dots between Point A and Point B. In any event, being able to sail your boat downwind JUST BECAUSE YOU WANT to is not an option with the B&R rig, unless you really don't care about chafing and poking a hole or two in your main. I'm guessing your boat is one of those salty devils with the indoor/outdoor carpet wrapped around the spreaders....yikes squared!
Fred: You may need a remedial reading, or perhaps sailing, lesson. In my post, I was poking fun at having all that wire in the B&R rig, so lighten up and smile now and then. Or, perhaps you really like the idea of replacing all that wire, end fittings, and swages when the time comes? As to sailing downwind, you may want to note that I distinctly said I don't race anymore. Sure, gybing down wind while broad reaching MAY be faster at times, but not all the time when you are connecting the dots between Point A and Point B. In any event, being able to sail your boat downwind JUST BECAUSE YOU WANT to is not an option with the B&R rig, unless you really don't care about chafing and poking a hole or two in your main. I'm guessing your boat is one of those salty devils with the indoor/outdoor carpet wrapped around the spreaders....yikes squared!
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