What If ...

jepomer · Dec 17, 2010

I love technology. But it will fail at some point.

One must have backup methods for everything. Don't forget that paper charts, a magnetic needle, and a weighted line will give you much information.

It may take longer but it could be a more romantic sail with my wife.

catsailor · Dec 17, 2010

Buck420 said:
Not wishing to hijack a previous thread on AIS ... I would like to pose a "what if" navigation question....

June 25, 2011 ... 22:30 ...
You and the Admiral have just finished "relaxing" w/ friends following the first day of a 10 day cruise with several other boats. Today's, was a great downwind sail from your'all marina to a familiar anchorage ~ 30miles away.
Your exciting, much anticipated, itinerary will take you about 150 m from home to some familial, and to some new, anchorages and marinas, (that none of the boats have been to) including a great anchorage in "Difficult to Get Into Creek" that you've been looking fwd to going to. Also, one day's route will take you out of sight of land for most of a day.
The weather looks good, only a possibility of a few thunderstorms in the coming week.
You have loaded your route into your new Raymarine E-500 Chart Plotter and backed it up on your Garmin 760CXYZ, plus (for good measure) also on your laptop w/ a GPS puck antenna. Everything is working great, and you go to sleep with "visions of sugar-sails dancing in your head".

June 26, 2011 ... 06:30 ...
At a wonderful morning anchorage, still within range of home, you turn on the boat's TV to check the morning news....
" At about 11PM last night, suicide bombers entered The GPS Master Control facility located at Schriever Air Force Base (formerly Falcon AFB) in Colorado ... as well as the Back-up GPS Control Facility (at an undisclosed location)... and succeeded in detonating explosive devices that have completely destroyed both facilities.... The president has announced that it will take at least TWO weeks before the Nation's GPS Navigation System can be restored." ....

You say ... "Oh S..t" ...

The Admiral says ... " WELL, ... I don't care about that, but... you better hope Tom's new girlfriend doesn't wear that disgusting little bathing suite again today... or there's going to be problems " ...

WHAT Do You DO ?? .. No, REALLY, would YOU continue this 10 day cruise without GPS ??? .. Could YOU ??? ..
Be Honest ... None of your great Navigation "gadgets" will work, Loran is gone... it would be just you and a paper chart and a compass ... (and the Admiral, ... when you run aground)

I had the GPS fail 2 days into a 20 day cruise once, a trip involving many inlets and a lot of coastal piloting. It changed nothing.

What's the big deal? When I learned to sail GPS didn't exist. My first boat had only a hand-held compass; that combined with charts and observation was enough to cruise most anywhere.

MJWarner · Dec 17, 2010

Paper charts, compass. You don't mention a dingy or lead line.. I might want to scope out the "difficult entrance" with those. But yes, I would go ahead. You have other boats traveling with you as well, lots of resources there, if it's needed. Why WOULD you cancel?

cb32863 · Dec 17, 2010

I mean really... why does it have to be so dramatic? They are called charts and a compass, if you can't use them you shouldn't be on the water.

Stu Jackson · Dec 17, 2010

GPS confirms for me where I think I am. It is not my primary source of navigation.

Old Skool Neil · Dec 17, 2010

Having come from a time before LORAN when we had only paper charts or maybe the notoriously inaccurate RDF, I'd definitely go.

Besides, Tom's new girlfriend and I need to get acquainted. At least this time I'll know why the Admiral's miffed.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Dec 17, 2010

Buck420 said:
...At a wonderful morning anchorage, still within range of home, you turn on the boat's TV to check the morning news....
" At about 11PM last night, suicide bombers entered The GPS Master Control facility located at Schriever Air Force Base (formerly Falcon AFB) in Colorado ... as well as the Back-up GPS Control Facility (at an undisclosed location)... and succeeded in detonating explosive devices that have completely destroyed both facilities.... The president has announced that it will take at least TWO weeks before the Nation's GPS Navigation System can be restored" ....

Be Honest ... None of your great Navigation "gadgets" will work, Loran is gone... it would be just you and a paper chart and a compass ... (and the Admiral, ... when you run aground)

And worse yet, your boat has experienced a power failure that has disabled your electric toilet!

Freedom77 · Dec 17, 2010

In the olde days,'70s, pre GPS we used charts, compass, landmarks and a thing called an RDF, Radio Direction Finder. It came in handy on long races when no land was in sight. I still have mine although on Lake Mead Nevada there isn't much call for one. This little marvel would null out on a known point for a transmitter which were listed on the chart and there was a compass rose on top for bearing. You would triangulate on two known beacons and where the lines crossed you were within at least 100 miles of where you thought you should be. It also had am/fm, weather, short wave and it would make toast. Any of you old F...ts

remember them? Peggy, power failure on electric toilet? YUK. Fair Winds and Full Sails...

Bill Roosa · Dec 17, 2010

What If???

I'd still be going. A one day sail out of sight of land doesn't even warrant taking the sextant out of its case.

What I've seen of the younger generation is they don't have the 'tricks' that make eyeball navigation doable for long periods of time. i.e. when I am making passage out of sight of land toward some port I don't want to aim right at it the way you do with GPS. I want to aim to one side or the other toward some easily identifiable high ground or prominent object. Then when I see land I know which direction the port is in and can start picking up landmarks to confirm my position. You never have to do that with GPS so the youngins never learn it and get lost when there GPS fails. They still hit land (like Columbus, how can you miss America) but don't know which way to turn to find the port.

Oh BTW, an ocean racing team usually goes to sea with multiple GPS units and typically returns to port with all of them busted.

Chuckbear · Dec 17, 2010

All the fools that can only operate their boats with all of the electronic gadgets would sail off the ends of the Earth and the anchorages would be far less crowded. Chuck

Rick Sylvester · Dec 17, 2010

Yeah, I'd still go.

But I might make the itinerary more flexible. I can dead reckon and use the old analog tricks the others have mentioned but I may not find that difficult entrance with spot-on accuracy so it might take a bit longer so I'll plan for that.

Actually, what would frighten me the most would be those guys still out who only pilot electronically. You know, the ones who run you down because you're not on their plotter? I suppose it could make them more safe if it gets their face out of the display but I'm not going to assume that.

Otherwise, no biggie

Now, where is Tom's boat going?

Bill Roosa · Dec 17, 2010

You should try gunkholing

You can't really use electronics to get all the way back up some of those small creeks. Gets downright isolated at times.

course you know there are boats at the mouth of the creek cause you saw them on the way in.

Ross · Dec 17, 2010

Re: You should try gunkholing

Some helpful things to learn : at what distance can you tell a people from a fence post? at what distance can you start to see individual trees on shore? at what distance can you distinguish the beach on the shore? these are all good measures of you position when you can see land. If the chart shows a long bar that you must avoid, how far must you be from the land at the end of the bar?

Old Skool Neil · Dec 17, 2010

Ross said:
. . . . . at what distance can you tell a people from a fence post?

Admittedly they're rare but judging by some comments I've seen (Bismark Dinius thread comes immediately to mind) . . . . even up close it's hard to tell.

kenn · Dec 17, 2010

Buck420 said:
June 26, 2011 ... 06:30 ...
At a wonderful morning anchorage, still within range of home, you turn on the boat's TV to check the morning news....
" At about 11PM last night, suicide bombers entered The GPS Master Control facility located at Schriever Air Force Base (formerly Falcon AFB) in Colorado ... as well as the Back-up GPS Control Facility (at an undisclosed location)... and succeeded in detonating explosive devices that have completely destroyed both facilities.... The president has announced that it will take at least TWO weeks before the Nation's GPS Navigation System can be restored." ....

Have you been picking through Tom Clancy's garbage?

First - utterly, utterly improbable scenario. Why? For many technical and logistical reasons that I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you

.

Far more likely that your main chartplotter has a daquiri poured into it, and your backup handheld drops out of your shirt-pocket when you're chatting up some cuties alongside in a kayak.

On a more realistic note, the majority of GPS satellites are well past service life and could fail soon. Replacements are starting to be launched, but it's feasible that we could have a period of time where there's diminished reliability if some satellites do fail soon.

mel22 · Dec 17, 2010

And just think, there has been discusion about shutting down light houses because with gps they are no longer needed.
I vote for continuing the trip. If I was a working person I would add a couple weeks and when I did get home tell the boss I was lost due to gps malfunction.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Dec 17, 2010

You're a littlle behind the times...

Almost all the lighthouses are already gone, at least as ATONs. Almost all the few that remain in operation are now just historical monuments, powerd by solar panels and maintained by private foundations who don't want to see our entire maritime history lost to technology and budget cuts.