I have been looking at a 1984 O'Day 222. I have only sailed Sunfish. I have a good friend who is familiar with sailing. The owner is asking $2500. It comes with a Magic Tilt galvanized trailer. The sails are in good shape. It has a CDI Micro Reefer roller furler. I'm not sure how well it works. A few of the lines on it need to be replaced. A friend and I stepped the mast(on the trailer). It seemed fine. I thought I was going to be buying it on Monday, but every time I go to look at it, a new potential problem arises. The boat has not been sailed in 3-4 years. The price seems to be a low price, but given the list below, what do you think? I have been following this forum over the last few days. I have been impressed with your knowledge and advice. Any help would be appreciated. 1. There was at least 4-5 inches of water in the cabin at one time. The wooden bulkhead and galley cabinet have water stains, and the owner said it had water in it at one time. I do not know if it froze over a winter. 2. The boat has been sitting at a slight angle on a roller trailer for all this time. Two rollers on the port side have depressed the hull creating dimples about 3/8"-5/8" deep. 3.The motor (8hp Mariner) has been in his basement since it was last run. It was not winterized or fogged. The owner said it was working when he last used it. There seems to be a black "gunk" smeared on the top of the housing where the spark plugs enter the cylinder. The metal gas tank has gas in it and it has rusted so I have not been able to start the motor. The motor had been used in salt water at one time. the owner said the last few years he had the boat it was sailed in fresh water. 4. The chain plates have leaked in the past. The teak has delaminated near the plate brackets in the bulkhead. Someone added "T" mending brackets to reinforce where the chain plates are attached to the bulkhead. These "T" plates are rusted and corroded. 5. The cushions in the cabin need a good cleaning. Some are mildewed. 6. The plexiglass in the front hatch needs to be replaced. Water leaks in. 7. The rudder needs some work. Some of the fiberglass has chipped away where it flares out, just below the metal plate. 8. One of the teak rails that the cabin hatch slides on has been chipped away on the towards the mast. When the hatcht cover is slid all the way forward the front left edge can be lifted. 9. The rub rail aroung the deck looks like it has hit a dock, etc. many times. In one spot on the stern this rail has cracked away. Just the rubber strip is there. So, what do you think? Are any of the potential problems deal breakers? If I put some work into the boat, will it become a reliable boat I will enjoy? Thanks, David
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Ric Shultz
Make a deal
You are buying a bit of a pig in a poke. I just bought a 25 Oday for $4,900 and put about $2,000 in materials in it and now it's like new so if you are willing to work, and make a good deal, it could be worth it. I also sailed on Wallenpaupack in the early 90s and this would be a good boat for that lake. Let's see if I can give some advise (you get what you pay for): 1. Water in the cabin has probably come from above. You would see stress cracks in the hull if there was damage. Look close. 2. The fiberglass hull does have some memory and the depressions will probably be hard to remove. Can you change the trailer so the pressure of the rollers is distributed differently? Are there strss cracks from the depressions? 3.Take the motor to a shop and have them run a compression check to see if the cilynders are ok. Most everything else on it can be fixed at low cost. 4. The chain plates are a worry. You may need to replace the bulkhead if there is not enough good material that can be mended. 5. Can the cushion covers be removed and dry cleaned? 6. Fix the plexiglass (about $200). 7. The rudder can be fixed. 8. The hatch teak rails can be replaced. Rudy at the O'day place in MA can be a great help. I don't have his info with me, but he was a production manager at O'day when they were in business and knows everything and has parts. Post another question and someone will give you the link. 9. The rub rail can be replaced for about $150 - $200 in parts. How are the sails? So, if you want a project and can get the price down, the work will make you familiar with evrything on this boat. A great learning experince, but hundreds of hours. O'days are great design and worth saving. I feel like I am contributing to part of history. Good luck Ric "comes a time" Amherst, NH
You are buying a bit of a pig in a poke. I just bought a 25 Oday for $4,900 and put about $2,000 in materials in it and now it's like new so if you are willing to work, and make a good deal, it could be worth it. I also sailed on Wallenpaupack in the early 90s and this would be a good boat for that lake. Let's see if I can give some advise (you get what you pay for): 1. Water in the cabin has probably come from above. You would see stress cracks in the hull if there was damage. Look close. 2. The fiberglass hull does have some memory and the depressions will probably be hard to remove. Can you change the trailer so the pressure of the rollers is distributed differently? Are there strss cracks from the depressions? 3.Take the motor to a shop and have them run a compression check to see if the cilynders are ok. Most everything else on it can be fixed at low cost. 4. The chain plates are a worry. You may need to replace the bulkhead if there is not enough good material that can be mended. 5. Can the cushion covers be removed and dry cleaned? 6. Fix the plexiglass (about $200). 7. The rudder can be fixed. 8. The hatch teak rails can be replaced. Rudy at the O'day place in MA can be a great help. I don't have his info with me, but he was a production manager at O'day when they were in business and knows everything and has parts. Post another question and someone will give you the link. 9. The rub rail can be replaced for about $150 - $200 in parts. How are the sails? So, if you want a project and can get the price down, the work will make you familiar with evrything on this boat. A great learning experince, but hundreds of hours. O'days are great design and worth saving. I feel like I am contributing to part of history. Good luck Ric "comes a time" Amherst, NH
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Scott
Well.......
I own a 1984 222 which I purchased 3 years ago. She is in perfect condition. I paid $5,500 for her and have not put a dime into her. (except for general maintainance) I would recommemd looking around for a 222 in better condition and spending a little more money now. Overall the 222 is a very well made boat compared to other manufactures of boats in this size. She sails real nice, looks great( for a 18 year old boat) not dated, and it is a great value. I have a 4.5hp of which I need a minimum a 6 hp. Good Luck and keep looking..
I own a 1984 222 which I purchased 3 years ago. She is in perfect condition. I paid $5,500 for her and have not put a dime into her. (except for general maintainance) I would recommemd looking around for a 222 in better condition and spending a little more money now. Overall the 222 is a very well made boat compared to other manufactures of boats in this size. She sails real nice, looks great( for a 18 year old boat) not dated, and it is a great value. I have a 4.5hp of which I need a minimum a 6 hp. Good Luck and keep looking..
K
Kevin
the endless debate..
David, First and foremost, the only way this guy will sell the boat is if: 1) the person buying is looing for a fixer upper. 2)someone is looking for a trailer/motor and a throw away boat etc or 3) hornswaggled and doesn't know what they are getting into. Use these scenarios to your advantage. Think and weigh out your decision very,very carefully. The nice thing about a project boat is that they are cheap and you learn a lot about your boat as you fix it. sometimes more than you truly ever wanted too. There is also the value of time. The more time you spend fixing, the less sailing, eating,sleeping being with loved ones, friend etc. (ideal situation is to get loved ones/friends to help repair) Take a screwdriver and poke the bulkhead. if it easily drives into the bulkhead,it's been rotted through. not a huge problem. I've replaced mine on my 23' tempest. This was a two year project which was finished this year. Simply cut out the old, use as a template. cut out new,use marine ply or hgih grade exterior and west system the heck out of it. fiberglass her back in. fair her out etc... I hope your beginning to get the idea, there is much more involved with this one project that I haven't included. If it doesn't need to be replaced, you could probably use west and som efiberglass. Now, couple this with your other projects that you already have found. Keep in mind, as you begin to fix, you WILL, I stress WILL, find more things that need to be repaired on the boat. Seeing that it's already june 27th you really have too weigh your options. ie: sail or fix, sail and fix, how much you want to spend etc. Out here in SE Mass, we have a couple of charity organizations that receive boats that people donate. usuall fixer uppers and usually good deals. I don't know if you have any in your area, but, it's worth investigating. If you do opt to buy, I'd try and bring the price down. every dollar you save in purchase price will be used in materials. Also, if you live in a title state. Make sure the boat has a title. one less headache. good luck!!
David, First and foremost, the only way this guy will sell the boat is if: 1) the person buying is looing for a fixer upper. 2)someone is looking for a trailer/motor and a throw away boat etc or 3) hornswaggled and doesn't know what they are getting into. Use these scenarios to your advantage. Think and weigh out your decision very,very carefully. The nice thing about a project boat is that they are cheap and you learn a lot about your boat as you fix it. sometimes more than you truly ever wanted too. There is also the value of time. The more time you spend fixing, the less sailing, eating,sleeping being with loved ones, friend etc. (ideal situation is to get loved ones/friends to help repair) Take a screwdriver and poke the bulkhead. if it easily drives into the bulkhead,it's been rotted through. not a huge problem. I've replaced mine on my 23' tempest. This was a two year project which was finished this year. Simply cut out the old, use as a template. cut out new,use marine ply or hgih grade exterior and west system the heck out of it. fiberglass her back in. fair her out etc... I hope your beginning to get the idea, there is much more involved with this one project that I haven't included. If it doesn't need to be replaced, you could probably use west and som efiberglass. Now, couple this with your other projects that you already have found. Keep in mind, as you begin to fix, you WILL, I stress WILL, find more things that need to be repaired on the boat. Seeing that it's already june 27th you really have too weigh your options. ie: sail or fix, sail and fix, how much you want to spend etc. Out here in SE Mass, we have a couple of charity organizations that receive boats that people donate. usuall fixer uppers and usually good deals. I don't know if you have any in your area, but, it's worth investigating. If you do opt to buy, I'd try and bring the price down. every dollar you save in purchase price will be used in materials. Also, if you live in a title state. Make sure the boat has a title. one less headache. good luck!!
E
Ed V.
Keep Looking...
David, Not sure about the 222, but have restored an O25 and this is what I have learned. It can be tempting to pick up a cheap boat and say "I can fix her up", but sometimes you don't know how big a project you have on your hands until you actually get into it. To get this boat "really nice" and something you can be proud of and show off to your friends, as opposed to "good enough": The bulkhead/chainplates will definitely have to be replaced, you don't want to have any question about their integrity. If the CP's are leaking, you might have damage to the deck core around the chainplate leads (ask me how I know...). Can be fixed but more time spent. By the time you get through with materials about $250 if you go with epoxy and marine teak ply. If the cushions are really bad, you may never get them clean again, and new cushions are way expensive. Plan on worst case new cushions or at least re-covering them. Probably at least $800 New hatch $200 Rudder can be fixed, will cost you your time Motor sounds like it basically needs to be rebuilt or seriously cleaned up, but again your time is worth money. This could be a project in itself. Hatch runners and rub rails can be fixed (more $$$). I would estimate you are looking at a good $2000 at least. So you figure you can find something in better shape for $4500 to $5000 and go sailing sooner. But the real deal-breaker IMHO is all the work and time you would have to put into it. If the boat looks like it's hurting before you even start tearing into it, you can bet the ranch that there is more than meets the eye and once you start getting into it you will have mulitple "Aw $#%!" situations as you peel back the layers. By the time you get the boat all "nice", you might be hating it. The idea is to sail it ! Personally I would keep looking for something that just needs a little TLC and cosmetic work. It will cost you less and make you happier in the long run. But that's just my 0.02USD
David, Not sure about the 222, but have restored an O25 and this is what I have learned. It can be tempting to pick up a cheap boat and say "I can fix her up", but sometimes you don't know how big a project you have on your hands until you actually get into it. To get this boat "really nice" and something you can be proud of and show off to your friends, as opposed to "good enough": The bulkhead/chainplates will definitely have to be replaced, you don't want to have any question about their integrity. If the CP's are leaking, you might have damage to the deck core around the chainplate leads (ask me how I know...). Can be fixed but more time spent. By the time you get through with materials about $250 if you go with epoxy and marine teak ply. If the cushions are really bad, you may never get them clean again, and new cushions are way expensive. Plan on worst case new cushions or at least re-covering them. Probably at least $800 New hatch $200 Rudder can be fixed, will cost you your time Motor sounds like it basically needs to be rebuilt or seriously cleaned up, but again your time is worth money. This could be a project in itself. Hatch runners and rub rails can be fixed (more $$$). I would estimate you are looking at a good $2000 at least. So you figure you can find something in better shape for $4500 to $5000 and go sailing sooner. But the real deal-breaker IMHO is all the work and time you would have to put into it. If the boat looks like it's hurting before you even start tearing into it, you can bet the ranch that there is more than meets the eye and once you start getting into it you will have mulitple "Aw $#%!" situations as you peel back the layers. By the time you get the boat all "nice", you might be hating it. The idea is to sail it ! Personally I would keep looking for something that just needs a little TLC and cosmetic work. It will cost you less and make you happier in the long run. But that's just my 0.02USD
T
Todd Eastland
Did you buy it?
Dave, Just finished reading all the replies to your query. I'm curious if you ended up buying the 222 or not? I just happen to have purchased one myself recently. Mine had some of the same problems, but (thankfully) I've been able to overcome them. Best of luck.
Dave, Just finished reading all the replies to your query. I'm curious if you ended up buying the 222 or not? I just happen to have purchased one myself recently. Mine had some of the same problems, but (thankfully) I've been able to overcome them. Best of luck.
D
David
No, I didn't buy it.
There were just too many question marks for me. What were some of your similar problems? The boat is still there. Right now I'm looking at a couple of Catalina 22's.
There were just too many question marks for me. What were some of your similar problems? The boat is still there. Right now I'm looking at a couple of Catalina 22's.
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