I would like to know "What you had to Fix" within the first year you purchased your Cherubini Hunter? I am looking at purchasing one and would like to know some of your "problem" areas that had to be fixed after purchasing. Did you know about it before you purchased or after? For instance, one person had mentioned that his muffler had rusted through, dumping water into the bilge. I found this on anoter site. I am posting this as a general question to all Cherubini owners, not just a specific size. I am looking at a 27. Pat.
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Not a lot.
We are into our third year on a 1981 33' Cherubini. The only thing that "broke " the first year was the 23 year old first generation Hood single line furler, and it had the good grace to wait until the end of the season. NOW....what did I "UPGRADE"? That list even scares me! However the upgrades you can do as your budget and circumstances allow. We spent the first year sailing the boat and deciding what to change. A lot of it got broken up into "We'll do this half of something this winter and the other half next winter. They are solid, honest boats with reasonable creature comforts, good sailing abilities and an affordable price. Enjoy!
We are into our third year on a 1981 33' Cherubini. The only thing that "broke " the first year was the 23 year old first generation Hood single line furler, and it had the good grace to wait until the end of the season. NOW....what did I "UPGRADE"? That list even scares me! However the upgrades you can do as your budget and circumstances allow. We spent the first year sailing the boat and deciding what to change. A lot of it got broken up into "We'll do this half of something this winter and the other half next winter. They are solid, honest boats with reasonable creature comforts, good sailing abilities and an affordable price. Enjoy!
Not a lot 2
Ditto on Josepph's comments.... Given the boat is sound in the first place... Especially the Mast step/compression post issues that may or may not plague these boats... I sailed my H27 ('84) for two years with nothing abut a bottom job... Since then, there have been a few "nice to haves" like a CDI FF6 furler... An a few musts like replacing a prior owners wiring mess (thermostat wire for all the add on's..) If you follow this site, I will echo the common theme... SURVEY SURVEY SURVEY
Ditto on Josepph's comments.... Given the boat is sound in the first place... Especially the Mast step/compression post issues that may or may not plague these boats... I sailed my H27 ('84) for two years with nothing abut a bottom job... Since then, there have been a few "nice to haves" like a CDI FF6 furler... An a few musts like replacing a prior owners wiring mess (thermostat wire for all the add on's..) If you follow this site, I will echo the common theme... SURVEY SURVEY SURVEY
ditto again
The only thing I had to do in the first year was replace the clutch cone in the transmission, it was easy to do, but getting the needed parts was a pain! Everything else was simply stuff I wanted to do as opposed to needed to. 82 Hunter 33
The only thing I had to do in the first year was replace the clutch cone in the transmission, it was easy to do, but getting the needed parts was a pain! Everything else was simply stuff I wanted to do as opposed to needed to. 82 Hunter 33
Nothing!
We sailed Lady Lillie, a '77 h27 for a full summer, and only bought one sail to upgrade our main. The next year, we rebuilt the mast step, and replaced the forward hatch, both of which were leaking and deteriorating. Most of our work since than has involved upgrades and replacements. We spend $500 to $1,000 per year on upgrades, replacements, and major maintenance. The list includes three new sails (the main, an asymetric spinnaker, and a 110), a bimini, a vang, an autopilot, and a canvas shade over the boom that ties into the bimini. At this point, we are focusing on the electrical system and a color plotting GPS for our tour of Erie, Ontario, and the St. Lawrence planned for 2007. Our best friends, and dockmates just bought a '78 h30 last summer, and sailed through the summer with no major purchase, although we did have to mend a very worn main. David Lady Lillie
We sailed Lady Lillie, a '77 h27 for a full summer, and only bought one sail to upgrade our main. The next year, we rebuilt the mast step, and replaced the forward hatch, both of which were leaking and deteriorating. Most of our work since than has involved upgrades and replacements. We spend $500 to $1,000 per year on upgrades, replacements, and major maintenance. The list includes three new sails (the main, an asymetric spinnaker, and a 110), a bimini, a vang, an autopilot, and a canvas shade over the boom that ties into the bimini. At this point, we are focusing on the electrical system and a color plotting GPS for our tour of Erie, Ontario, and the St. Lawrence planned for 2007. Our best friends, and dockmates just bought a '78 h30 last summer, and sailed through the summer with no major purchase, although we did have to mend a very worn main. David Lady Lillie
some things to look at
Things that wear out, especially on a boat as old as a Cherubini Hunter, are belts, engine & cooling hoses, sanitation hoses, impellors, MSD parts, sails, running rigging, batteries, etc.
Things that wear out, especially on a boat as old as a Cherubini Hunter, are belts, engine & cooling hoses, sanitation hoses, impellors, MSD parts, sails, running rigging, batteries, etc.
Check the elbow
About a month after we bought Good News the elbow joint (between engine and muffler) clogged, which in turn blew holes in the exhaust system. By the time we replaced everything and paid to have it done, we spent around $700. Since then I have been told to make sure the elbow joint is cleaned every year or two, and consider replacing it after 400 hours. Mine had about 700 hours on it at the time. Apparently, running the engine at low rpm for long periods of time can speed up the soot buildup. Now that I know more about it, replacing the elbow (prior to the problem) would probably cost me a couple of hundred at the most. You can check the archives for a "how to do it" posted a couple of years ago. S.
About a month after we bought Good News the elbow joint (between engine and muffler) clogged, which in turn blew holes in the exhaust system. By the time we replaced everything and paid to have it done, we spent around $700. Since then I have been told to make sure the elbow joint is cleaned every year or two, and consider replacing it after 400 hours. Mine had about 700 hours on it at the time. Apparently, running the engine at low rpm for long periods of time can speed up the soot buildup. Now that I know more about it, replacing the elbow (prior to the problem) would probably cost me a couple of hundred at the most. You can check the archives for a "how to do it" posted a couple of years ago. S.
Battery only
Only problem first year was battery. Owner must have abused the thing as it didn't look old but would not hold a charge. I am in the second year now and only thing is the hatch board are starting to split. Previous owner rebuild them with plywood and poor sealants must have been used. Other that that boat has been great for the two years.
Only problem first year was battery. Owner must have abused the thing as it didn't look old but would not hold a charge. I am in the second year now and only thing is the hatch board are starting to split. Previous owner rebuild them with plywood and poor sealants must have been used. Other that that boat has been great for the two years.
Not much either
My 1981 27 was in pretty good shape. Fortunately, it was all mostly original so there was no complex gear added. I had to fix a leak in one of the deck scuppers (cost to repair, about $2.50), I repacked the stuffing box (cost about $10.00), and fixed a leak in the fresh-water fill hose (cost about $10.00). There's still a leak in the fresh-water system, but I'm sure it will be equally cheap to repair once I track it down. Of course, there are lines and fenders and the normal odds and ends that are part of owning any boat.
My 1981 27 was in pretty good shape. Fortunately, it was all mostly original so there was no complex gear added. I had to fix a leak in one of the deck scuppers (cost to repair, about $2.50), I repacked the stuffing box (cost about $10.00), and fixed a leak in the fresh-water fill hose (cost about $10.00). There's still a leak in the fresh-water system, but I'm sure it will be equally cheap to repair once I track it down. Of course, there are lines and fenders and the normal odds and ends that are part of owning any boat.
The early 27's
My 76 H27 hull design the keel is installed in a indentation in the bottom of the hull, and wood stringers above glassed over with a couple of layers of glass. This was later changed to a structural grid system, I think fairly early on. You can see the differance looking in the bildge, but you can't really see how well the stiffeners were glassed in unless you cut out part of the sole. In my boats case it must have been done on a Friday.
My 76 H27 hull design the keel is installed in a indentation in the bottom of the hull, and wood stringers above glassed over with a couple of layers of glass. This was later changed to a structural grid system, I think fairly early on. You can see the differance looking in the bildge, but you can't really see how well the stiffeners were glassed in unless you cut out part of the sole. In my boats case it must have been done on a Friday.
Thanks for the INFO.
I want to thank all those that have added a response to my original post. I have reading a lot of the Archive posts, especially on keel to hull and the amount of hidden water in the bilge crevices. Also been reading a lot about the compression posts and rigging tension. I have been boating most of my life but mostly power. I am 43 now and just sold my 24 ft cabin cruiser power boat to go back to sail. I owned a 26 ft MaGregor sail boat before, the one when they went to water balast. That is the primary reason I am looking at a good deep draft KEEL boat. Better ride and more predictable action. I would like to expand this thread a little to include your take on surveys. I am still contemplating it. I am a Mechanical Engineer, and I know a lot about fiberglass boats and engines. Where I am fuzzy is the rigging and keel bolts. Like how much bedding compound should be between the keel and the hull, how are the keel bolts backed, I have not seen any pictures of the keel bolts on a 27 Cherubini. Also, how are the shrouds attached at the toe rail. I have been reading about U-bolts, any pictures of these? I really like the Cherubini boats, they look like sailboats and not the Starship Enterprise. Not to say that if someone offered one of the new Hunter 38's for the same price; I certainly would not turn it down. Sorry for the long windedness of this post. Again for those that have replied, Thanks, and I hope to hear from many others, Everyone has a story and I would really like to know what I am getting into. I am pleased to hear that these are very good boats despite the bad rap around the dock. MY cruiser was a Bayliner, so I am very aware about bad rap that is just not true. Pat.
I want to thank all those that have added a response to my original post. I have reading a lot of the Archive posts, especially on keel to hull and the amount of hidden water in the bilge crevices. Also been reading a lot about the compression posts and rigging tension. I have been boating most of my life but mostly power. I am 43 now and just sold my 24 ft cabin cruiser power boat to go back to sail. I owned a 26 ft MaGregor sail boat before, the one when they went to water balast. That is the primary reason I am looking at a good deep draft KEEL boat. Better ride and more predictable action. I would like to expand this thread a little to include your take on surveys. I am still contemplating it. I am a Mechanical Engineer, and I know a lot about fiberglass boats and engines. Where I am fuzzy is the rigging and keel bolts. Like how much bedding compound should be between the keel and the hull, how are the keel bolts backed, I have not seen any pictures of the keel bolts on a 27 Cherubini. Also, how are the shrouds attached at the toe rail. I have been reading about U-bolts, any pictures of these? I really like the Cherubini boats, they look like sailboats and not the Starship Enterprise. Not to say that if someone offered one of the new Hunter 38's for the same price; I certainly would not turn it down. Sorry for the long windedness of this post. Again for those that have replied, Thanks, and I hope to hear from many others, Everyone has a story and I would really like to know what I am getting into. I am pleased to hear that these are very good boats despite the bad rap around the dock. MY cruiser was a Bayliner, so I am very aware about bad rap that is just not true. Pat.
Shrouds
The shroud attachment is simple: A u-bolt through the toerail fastened on the other side with a nut and a fender washer is the whole story. This is substantially less than the elaborate structures I have seen in larger boats. I have attributed this to the much lower loads on a smaller boat, and the high strength of the hull-deck-toerail assembly. The 27 uses 3/16's stainless cables while the h30 uses 1/4. That's a big difference in stress on the shroud attachments. In any case, neither the shroud attachments nor the keel bolts have excited much discussion on this Cherubini site. The bottom of the boat, and the keel attachment were massively overdesigned and overbuilt because fiberglass was a new material. The thickness of the lay-up and the number of keel bolts are both about double what they are on a modern boat. David Lady Lillie
The shroud attachment is simple: A u-bolt through the toerail fastened on the other side with a nut and a fender washer is the whole story. This is substantially less than the elaborate structures I have seen in larger boats. I have attributed this to the much lower loads on a smaller boat, and the high strength of the hull-deck-toerail assembly. The 27 uses 3/16's stainless cables while the h30 uses 1/4. That's a big difference in stress on the shroud attachments. In any case, neither the shroud attachments nor the keel bolts have excited much discussion on this Cherubini site. The bottom of the boat, and the keel attachment were massively overdesigned and overbuilt because fiberglass was a new material. The thickness of the lay-up and the number of keel bolts are both about double what they are on a modern boat. David Lady Lillie
Keel bolts and all
I am in the middle of a complete rebuild of my 1974 hunter 25, hull #14 The keelbolts, while tight, had worn into the heavy sole they are bolted thru. Maybe a 1/8" or so. The chainplates are just a piece of angle ss maybe 16 inches long. 3 shrouds attach to the upper leg, 4 bolts tag the lower leg down with the toerail. None of this showed any signs of weakness or leaking. The deckstepped mast on the other hand, was a mess. It is really hard to tell but either the tabernacle bolts or the coax were really leaking for a long time. Lots of core delamination in the overhead around the mast. Probably not noticed bcuse of the sea hood for the compainionway hatch also covers a piece of plywood that was used for a spacer in there. Nice functinal deck, but that is a weak point. Oooops, WAS a weak point
pvc pipe for drains on the cockpit seats? what were they thinking??? Other than that most of the workmanship looked pretty good. When tearing out the interior, 95% of the tabbing was good. Charlie
I am in the middle of a complete rebuild of my 1974 hunter 25, hull #14 The keelbolts, while tight, had worn into the heavy sole they are bolted thru. Maybe a 1/8" or so. The chainplates are just a piece of angle ss maybe 16 inches long. 3 shrouds attach to the upper leg, 4 bolts tag the lower leg down with the toerail. None of this showed any signs of weakness or leaking. The deckstepped mast on the other hand, was a mess. It is really hard to tell but either the tabernacle bolts or the coax were really leaking for a long time. Lots of core delamination in the overhead around the mast. Probably not noticed bcuse of the sea hood for the compainionway hatch also covers a piece of plywood that was used for a spacer in there. Nice functinal deck, but that is a weak point. Oooops, WAS a weak point
pvc pipe for drains on the cockpit seats? what were they thinking??? Other than that most of the workmanship looked pretty good. When tearing out the interior, 95% of the tabbing was good. CharlieCherubini Repairs
Hey, another Lake St Clair sailor!! Where will you keep your boat Patrick?? We've been at Michigan Harbor the last few years and will probably be back there again. That said we just finished our 2nd season with a 1979 Cherubini 33. Replaced batteries Added a new 12v dc panel w/ volt meter & ammeter replaced outdated barely working VHF engine needed a new starter after 1st season needs a new cutlass bearing and engine alignment a couple portlights need replacing (ok, they all do really) 2 small areas of the deck have delaminated due to poorly sealed deck hardware.... need to replace the original holding tank bladder with a rigid tank Here's a BIGGIE, fuel tank corroded through this summer and dumped 20 gals of diesel into the bilge, that was nasty, but thankfully it was diesel not gasoline and thankfully the old float bilge pump had decided to take a dump and not pump it into the lake. I had the tank cleaned, patched & sealed. The Cherubinis are a strong comfortable boat well suited for Lake St Clair and Erie and Huron too. Rich Byrnes SV - SunByrnes II 1979 Cherubini 33 Lake St Clair, MI
Hey, another Lake St Clair sailor!! Where will you keep your boat Patrick?? We've been at Michigan Harbor the last few years and will probably be back there again. That said we just finished our 2nd season with a 1979 Cherubini 33. Replaced batteries Added a new 12v dc panel w/ volt meter & ammeter replaced outdated barely working VHF engine needed a new starter after 1st season needs a new cutlass bearing and engine alignment a couple portlights need replacing (ok, they all do really) 2 small areas of the deck have delaminated due to poorly sealed deck hardware.... need to replace the original holding tank bladder with a rigid tank Here's a BIGGIE, fuel tank corroded through this summer and dumped 20 gals of diesel into the bilge, that was nasty, but thankfully it was diesel not gasoline and thankfully the old float bilge pump had decided to take a dump and not pump it into the lake. I had the tank cleaned, patched & sealed. The Cherubinis are a strong comfortable boat well suited for Lake St Clair and Erie and Huron too. Rich Byrnes SV - SunByrnes II 1979 Cherubini 33 Lake St Clair, MI
My purchase experience
When I bought my 27 in 2004, I didn't have a survey done. For one thing, I wasn't going to insure for replacement, so I didn't need a survey for insurance. For another, I could easily see that the boat was in good shape and didn't feel the cost of the survey would be worth it. That's my experience and I don't give advice to others, you have to evaluate your situation for yourself. I haven't heard of cherubinis having much in the way of blistering, mine had none. You'll want to check the engine pretty well -- mine still has the original Yanmar and as far as I can tell, it's going to outlive me. Walk heavily on the deck and coach roof -- any signs of delamination are an obvious concern. Get an overall impression of the boat -- does it look like it was owned by a concerned owner? If all of this checks out, you will have one of the greatest sailboats ever made, no exaggeration. Why is the Hunter 27 so great? 1. Lots of room for a 27 footer, but still small enough to single hand easily. 2. Stable design -- I have yet to get a toerail in the water, try as I might. When the boat heels too far, it just rounds up into the wind and straightens up -- kind of a built-in safety feature. The fact is, there's no good reason to sail a boat with too much heel -- you don't get where you're going any faster. 3. Good performance -- I've done well head-to-head with other boats of the same length or larger. 4. Main sheet purchase on coach roof -- keeps the cockpit clear. 5. Hull to deck joint -- the joint is really robust and reinforced by the slotted aluminum toerail. Joint is done entirely with bolts -- no staples. 6. Nicely done interior -- very practical layout that uses the available space well. Lots of teak on the inside, very little on the outside -- just the way I like it. 7. Engine access is very good. 8. Eight opening ports (1981 model) and two hatches! That's really unusual and makes overnights much more pleasant. 9. Integrated swim ladder. 10. U-bolts that stay the shrouds are solid and can't leak as far as I can tell. 11. Nice size anchor locker. 12. Solid layup on the hull and deck. 13. Looks nice -- slight shear, fine bow entry, traditional cabin top, teak hand rails and trim strip add nice touch, tapered stern. 14. Good positioning of winches and cleats, easy for single handing. 15. Solid, high coamings make it easy to get up on the cabin top and also keep water out. Enough? I think so.
When I bought my 27 in 2004, I didn't have a survey done. For one thing, I wasn't going to insure for replacement, so I didn't need a survey for insurance. For another, I could easily see that the boat was in good shape and didn't feel the cost of the survey would be worth it. That's my experience and I don't give advice to others, you have to evaluate your situation for yourself. I haven't heard of cherubinis having much in the way of blistering, mine had none. You'll want to check the engine pretty well -- mine still has the original Yanmar and as far as I can tell, it's going to outlive me. Walk heavily on the deck and coach roof -- any signs of delamination are an obvious concern. Get an overall impression of the boat -- does it look like it was owned by a concerned owner? If all of this checks out, you will have one of the greatest sailboats ever made, no exaggeration. Why is the Hunter 27 so great? 1. Lots of room for a 27 footer, but still small enough to single hand easily. 2. Stable design -- I have yet to get a toerail in the water, try as I might. When the boat heels too far, it just rounds up into the wind and straightens up -- kind of a built-in safety feature. The fact is, there's no good reason to sail a boat with too much heel -- you don't get where you're going any faster. 3. Good performance -- I've done well head-to-head with other boats of the same length or larger. 4. Main sheet purchase on coach roof -- keeps the cockpit clear. 5. Hull to deck joint -- the joint is really robust and reinforced by the slotted aluminum toerail. Joint is done entirely with bolts -- no staples. 6. Nicely done interior -- very practical layout that uses the available space well. Lots of teak on the inside, very little on the outside -- just the way I like it. 7. Engine access is very good. 8. Eight opening ports (1981 model) and two hatches! That's really unusual and makes overnights much more pleasant. 9. Integrated swim ladder. 10. U-bolts that stay the shrouds are solid and can't leak as far as I can tell. 11. Nice size anchor locker. 12. Solid layup on the hull and deck. 13. Looks nice -- slight shear, fine bow entry, traditional cabin top, teak hand rails and trim strip add nice touch, tapered stern. 14. Good positioning of winches and cleats, easy for single handing. 15. Solid, high coamings make it easy to get up on the cabin top and also keep water out. Enough? I think so.
I would agree to everything but one.
When I bought my '82 Hunter 27' it had been sitting for 3-4 years at a dock and had a BIG blister problem. I would check for that. It was a fresh water boat which apparently exacerbates blisters so might not be nearly as much of a problem if in salt water and was used regularly. Other than that, I agree with everything Stephen says. The only reason I would get rid of mine would be to move up to a Cherubini Hunter 33'.
When I bought my '82 Hunter 27' it had been sitting for 3-4 years at a dock and had a BIG blister problem. I would check for that. It was a fresh water boat which apparently exacerbates blisters so might not be nearly as much of a problem if in salt water and was used regularly. Other than that, I agree with everything Stephen says. The only reason I would get rid of mine would be to move up to a Cherubini Hunter 33'.
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