Ok, I know this is a loaded question, with many opinions, no right answer, etc.. But I have to ask. I just got into sailing last year, and have a 19ft day sailer. I'm green to sailing and sail boats. I'm looking to move up to something in the 25-30ft range in the next few years. I want to start doing some research now to narrow down the choices. Right now, I think I'd like a race/cruiser class boat, but that could change. I want something that moves, but has nice accommodations for week(s) long trips too. I'll be looking at the used boat market, if that helps. The question: Why is one boat, let's say Hunter, Beneteau, Jboats, or C&C ..., better than the other? Where would I start researching this question to understand which manufacturer I would want to look at?
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Loaded question (on a hunter site)?
Steve: First thing is your budget. If you have no budget then all bets are off. If you want to keep it under $20k or so, you should start with a H'30 in the 1975-1982 range. There are so many good boats out there if you can find one that has been cared for. If you move your budget up to the $30-40k you'll have more boats to select from than you have time to look.
Steve: First thing is your budget. If you have no budget then all bets are off. If you want to keep it under $20k or so, you should start with a H'30 in the 1975-1982 range. There are so many good boats out there if you can find one that has been cared for. If you move your budget up to the $30-40k you'll have more boats to select from than you have time to look.
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Dave
C&C 29 is the boat for you
A great racer cruiser in the size range you want is the C&C 29. It will beat the pants off a Catalina 30 and just about anything else in its class except the new J boats. It is a quality boat and you can get them for a fair price especially the older atomic 4 engine models. Boat quality varies all over the place. Designs do to depending on what you want (race/cruise, only cruise , etc). Extra equipment is another item that drives the cost. A lot of electronics versus none for instance, spinakers or not. The C&C29 is a well build boat. Another well built boat on the opposite end of the spectrum is the Cape Dory 25D or the 30. These are full keel boats that will be slow and heavy but well made. dave
A great racer cruiser in the size range you want is the C&C 29. It will beat the pants off a Catalina 30 and just about anything else in its class except the new J boats. It is a quality boat and you can get them for a fair price especially the older atomic 4 engine models. Boat quality varies all over the place. Designs do to depending on what you want (race/cruise, only cruise , etc). Extra equipment is another item that drives the cost. A lot of electronics versus none for instance, spinakers or not. The C&C29 is a well build boat. Another well built boat on the opposite end of the spectrum is the Cape Dory 25D or the 30. These are full keel boats that will be slow and heavy but well made. dave
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Guest
Easy answer...
Start looking for a boat that looks good to you, one that appeals to your senses. Example, I personally do not care for Hunters. Something about the look of a Hunter does not agree with me. I prefer a Catalina over a Hunter, but a J-Boat over a Catalina, and so forth and so on. That is my opinion, and I am sure there are plenty of people who are going to disagree with me. Make a list of the boats that you would like to take a look at. Seek those boats and get the owners to take you out on a sea-trial. Make a list of the things you like and don't like about each one. Make a decision. The most important thing is to take your time in deciding. Nobody's opinion matters but your own. You may decide that a Com-pac is the right boat for you, but you won't get that answer here...
Start looking for a boat that looks good to you, one that appeals to your senses. Example, I personally do not care for Hunters. Something about the look of a Hunter does not agree with me. I prefer a Catalina over a Hunter, but a J-Boat over a Catalina, and so forth and so on. That is my opinion, and I am sure there are plenty of people who are going to disagree with me. Make a list of the boats that you would like to take a look at. Seek those boats and get the owners to take you out on a sea-trial. Make a list of the things you like and don't like about each one. Make a decision. The most important thing is to take your time in deciding. Nobody's opinion matters but your own. You may decide that a Com-pac is the right boat for you, but you won't get that answer here...
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Bryan C.
Loaded questions for you:
What is your budget? What is your sailing area? Protected or open ocean. Warm water or cold? Strong or light winds. Is your primary goal speed or comfort. You can have a little of both but not a lot. J boats are fast, don't know if I'd want to spend weeks on one if its less than 40'. How handy are you? Can you maintain/repair things on your own?
What is your budget? What is your sailing area? Protected or open ocean. Warm water or cold? Strong or light winds. Is your primary goal speed or comfort. You can have a little of both but not a lot. J boats are fast, don't know if I'd want to spend weeks on one if its less than 40'. How handy are you? Can you maintain/repair things on your own?
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Larry Watkins
The right boat
Steve; For the money/enjoyment ratio, you can't go wrong with a Catalina. The 25 has a nice poptop that will give you standing headroom at a mooring or anchored, and the 30 is the next class up. A real galley, a real head, real bunks, plenty of room, sails well, and can be easily singlehanded. Larry W.
Steve; For the money/enjoyment ratio, you can't go wrong with a Catalina. The 25 has a nice poptop that will give you standing headroom at a mooring or anchored, and the 30 is the next class up. A real galley, a real head, real bunks, plenty of room, sails well, and can be easily singlehanded. Larry W.
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Roland
What your asking is..
what Hunter should you buy? No, seriously, even though I own an older Cherubini, all boats are a trade-off in one way or another but, they will usually do what they were built to do. Since you indicate you are not in a hurry, I would suggest, among other things, first decide what kind of sailing you are going to do, where you are going to do it, what amenities you would be looking for and, how much you can reasonably afford. Remember, the intial cost of a boat of any length is usually the least expensive part of boat ownership. At least that expense has an end. One way to get an idea of what you would want in a boat is to charter one from a local (or distant) charter company. That way you get experience on many different kinds of vessels before you decide to take the plunge. You may even decide that chartering better suits your needs. It certainly is cheaper in the long run. Why?.., you ask,.. do I own instead of charter? It can only be, to paraphrase the title of a book from my youth, "Zen and the Art of Sailboat Maintenence". Happy sailing, -Roland S/V Fraulein II
what Hunter should you buy? No, seriously, even though I own an older Cherubini, all boats are a trade-off in one way or another but, they will usually do what they were built to do. Since you indicate you are not in a hurry, I would suggest, among other things, first decide what kind of sailing you are going to do, where you are going to do it, what amenities you would be looking for and, how much you can reasonably afford. Remember, the intial cost of a boat of any length is usually the least expensive part of boat ownership. At least that expense has an end. One way to get an idea of what you would want in a boat is to charter one from a local (or distant) charter company. That way you get experience on many different kinds of vessels before you decide to take the plunge. You may even decide that chartering better suits your needs. It certainly is cheaper in the long run. Why?.., you ask,.. do I own instead of charter? It can only be, to paraphrase the title of a book from my youth, "Zen and the Art of Sailboat Maintenence". Happy sailing, -Roland S/V Fraulein II
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Jon Bastien
This one's easy.
Buy the one you fall in love with! I know that sounds a little simple, but the previous posters are all correct- You know best what you want out of the sailing experience, and you are the one who has to judge which boat will meet your needs. My wife and I looked at several boats before we bought our first. We knew that we wanted a trailerable, weekend-capable, well-performing boat. We fell in love with the Hunter 23, and bought it in less than a week. It met our needs at the time, but after moving to a new sailing area, it wasn't up to the task anymore. The new sailing grounds needed a heavier boat, with week-long vacationing ability. Also, standing head room and an easy sail plan were high on the list, and we had a place to keep it in the water. A fixer-upper was OK, as we now had maintenance experience... As we were shopping for a new boat, we fell in love again- with the Hunter 25. When I go to the next place where I can keep a sailboat, I'm sure that I'll be looking for another one to fall in love with, all over again. One other thing to keep in mind- At the time I was shopping for a boat, SailboatOwners.com was just HunterOwners.com- Actually, it was Phil Herring's own personal web site (and web development experiment, I suspect ;o). They hadn't even started Planet Catalina yet. At that time, I saw the value of having this kind of support network, and having that network of owners to advise a newbie was quite a strong influence in our boat buying decision. With the new sites on line (for Beneteaus, Catalinas, C and C, MacGregors, and O'Days), There are quite a few more folks out here to help with whatever model you choose. Good luck with your decision! --Jon Bastien H25 'Adagio'
Buy the one you fall in love with! I know that sounds a little simple, but the previous posters are all correct- You know best what you want out of the sailing experience, and you are the one who has to judge which boat will meet your needs. My wife and I looked at several boats before we bought our first. We knew that we wanted a trailerable, weekend-capable, well-performing boat. We fell in love with the Hunter 23, and bought it in less than a week. It met our needs at the time, but after moving to a new sailing area, it wasn't up to the task anymore. The new sailing grounds needed a heavier boat, with week-long vacationing ability. Also, standing head room and an easy sail plan were high on the list, and we had a place to keep it in the water. A fixer-upper was OK, as we now had maintenance experience... As we were shopping for a new boat, we fell in love again- with the Hunter 25. When I go to the next place where I can keep a sailboat, I'm sure that I'll be looking for another one to fall in love with, all over again. One other thing to keep in mind- At the time I was shopping for a boat, SailboatOwners.com was just HunterOwners.com- Actually, it was Phil Herring's own personal web site (and web development experiment, I suspect ;o). They hadn't even started Planet Catalina yet. At that time, I saw the value of having this kind of support network, and having that network of owners to advise a newbie was quite a strong influence in our boat buying decision. With the new sites on line (for Beneteaus, Catalinas, C and C, MacGregors, and O'Days), There are quite a few more folks out here to help with whatever model you choose. Good luck with your decision! --Jon Bastien H25 'Adagio'
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Alan
I aggree..
with Jon. When my wife and I were looking at boats, we only considered Catalina30's. We loved them. Then one day we happen to look at a Hunter31 and my wife instantly fell for that boat. End of search!! Today we are the proud owners of a Hunter, as far as Catalinas go we've never looked back. When the right one comes along you'll know it (but let a certified marine surveyor confirm your desire!!) Good luck
with Jon. When my wife and I were looking at boats, we only considered Catalina30's. We loved them. Then one day we happen to look at a Hunter31 and my wife instantly fell for that boat. End of search!! Today we are the proud owners of a Hunter, as far as Catalinas go we've never looked back. When the right one comes along you'll know it (but let a certified marine surveyor confirm your desire!!) Good luck
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Ed Schenck
Do NOT agree with Jon and
Alan. Jon starts with "the boat YOU fall in love with". Then he and Alan write about WE because there is often a significant other involved. Not only did my wife play a large role in the size decision but also in the $$$$'s. I bought a larger and cheaper boat than I might otherwise have done. Instead of a 1979 37-foot Hunter I'd be sailing a new Tartan 3500. And probably not as satisfied, certainly much poorer. There is great satisfaction from making an old boat look good and sail well. Because she has more sense than me we can afford new sails and all of the electronic goodies. And the old cutter flies. But maybe as much as anything was discovering the Hunter Owner's Website while I was looking for the boat. What a great bunch of people. And there is no place in sailing with as much information, no place.
Alan. Jon starts with "the boat YOU fall in love with". Then he and Alan write about WE because there is often a significant other involved. Not only did my wife play a large role in the size decision but also in the $$$$'s. I bought a larger and cheaper boat than I might otherwise have done. Instead of a 1979 37-foot Hunter I'd be sailing a new Tartan 3500. And probably not as satisfied, certainly much poorer. There is great satisfaction from making an old boat look good and sail well. Because she has more sense than me we can afford new sails and all of the electronic goodies. And the old cutter flies. But maybe as much as anything was discovering the Hunter Owner's Website while I was looking for the boat. What a great bunch of people. And there is no place in sailing with as much information, no place.
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Andy
Research will save $$ and your mind.
All the previous post have valuable insights, but I would like to emphasize objectivity. Do not go out to fit yourself to a boat, find a boat that fits you. Start with yourself and the crew. What is important? Headroom? Enclosed head? Comfortable salon? Cost to purchase? Cost to maintain? Slip fees and storage (an extra couple of feet will make a difference annually)? Etc. I have a friend who says you can afford a boat five foot longer than you think. Perhaps if you buy a boat on impulse. Yet, with proper research you will narrow your choices and make a logical decision. Get all the expert help you can. If not a talking individual, there are many books on buying the right boat. Use all sources. Compose a checklist and make a copy for every boat you look at. Read the reviews and listen to the sales people, this is important information but keep in mind their goal. Like others have said, there are a lot of compromises, make sure you and the crew are the ones controlling the choices and you will probably be satisfied with the outcome. It worked for us. Andy s/v Baroque
All the previous post have valuable insights, but I would like to emphasize objectivity. Do not go out to fit yourself to a boat, find a boat that fits you. Start with yourself and the crew. What is important? Headroom? Enclosed head? Comfortable salon? Cost to purchase? Cost to maintain? Slip fees and storage (an extra couple of feet will make a difference annually)? Etc. I have a friend who says you can afford a boat five foot longer than you think. Perhaps if you buy a boat on impulse. Yet, with proper research you will narrow your choices and make a logical decision. Get all the expert help you can. If not a talking individual, there are many books on buying the right boat. Use all sources. Compose a checklist and make a copy for every boat you look at. Read the reviews and listen to the sales people, this is important information but keep in mind their goal. Like others have said, there are a lot of compromises, make sure you and the crew are the ones controlling the choices and you will probably be satisfied with the outcome. It worked for us. Andy s/v Baroque
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Jeff
Boat
Look at boats that are not for sale (probably few of those around) and talk to the owners about likes and dislikes. Determine if you are going to trailer or not, look at your budget, reduce by 20% for after purchase issues , and find the biggest boat with the best maintenance you feel you like appeals to you and yours regardless of age or make. When buying a used boat you are buying somebody elses problem, the challenge is to find a boat on which the owner has minimized or repaired the problems. Establish a fair price from searching the WEB, low ball it, and get a survey. Do these things aand you will probably find a boat you like. Remember, don't be afraid to walk away from a deal since there are always more boats out there and don't be suprised if you end up with the boat you walk away from becomes yours once the seller reconsiders. Good luck and go for it.
Look at boats that are not for sale (probably few of those around) and talk to the owners about likes and dislikes. Determine if you are going to trailer or not, look at your budget, reduce by 20% for after purchase issues , and find the biggest boat with the best maintenance you feel you like appeals to you and yours regardless of age or make. When buying a used boat you are buying somebody elses problem, the challenge is to find a boat on which the owner has minimized or repaired the problems. Establish a fair price from searching the WEB, low ball it, and get a survey. Do these things aand you will probably find a boat you like. Remember, don't be afraid to walk away from a deal since there are always more boats out there and don't be suprised if you end up with the boat you walk away from becomes yours once the seller reconsiders. Good luck and go for it.
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Steve
Answers to Bryan's Q'
Thanks everyone for the helpful tips. To answer some of the questions back to me: What is your budget? Don't know at this point, looking to reserch and save for a few years, maybe around $20000 for a used boat, give or take. What is your sailing area? Protected or open ocean. Both I hope. Sailing a lot on the Hudson, but want to take it dwon to Long Island sound and up or down the coast. Warm water or cold? Cold mostly. Strong or light winds. Both I would suspect?? Is your primary goal speed or comfort. You can have a little of both but not a lot. Well, I I'd like a boat that has good Perf points, but comfortable enough to stay on for a week or two. How handy are you? Can you maintain/repair things on your own? Pretty handy.
Thanks everyone for the helpful tips. To answer some of the questions back to me: What is your budget? Don't know at this point, looking to reserch and save for a few years, maybe around $20000 for a used boat, give or take. What is your sailing area? Protected or open ocean. Both I hope. Sailing a lot on the Hudson, but want to take it dwon to Long Island sound and up or down the coast. Warm water or cold? Cold mostly. Strong or light winds. Both I would suspect?? Is your primary goal speed or comfort. You can have a little of both but not a lot. Well, I I'd like a boat that has good Perf points, but comfortable enough to stay on for a week or two. How handy are you? Can you maintain/repair things on your own? Pretty handy.
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David Foster
Deep Keel for one thing
My focus is cruising, so I am not up on the best racing boats in the PHRF. We have a shoal draft h27, and love her, but a shoal draft boat cannot go to windward like the deeper draft keels, especially in the age that your $20,000 budget will put you. And every bouy race has one of those dratted windward legs! (Most cruisers use the iron genny when we really need to make time to windward. And plan our routes so that we reach most of the time.) David Lady Lillie
My focus is cruising, so I am not up on the best racing boats in the PHRF. We have a shoal draft h27, and love her, but a shoal draft boat cannot go to windward like the deeper draft keels, especially in the age that your $20,000 budget will put you. And every bouy race has one of those dratted windward legs! (Most cruisers use the iron genny when we really need to make time to windward. And plan our routes so that we reach most of the time.) David Lady Lillie
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Dave
C&C 29 is the boat you want
Steve, If you are sailing on the river you should consider draft as an important characteristic. I don't know the hudson at all but C&C's are generally deep draft boats. You might want to say limit your draft to 4 feet or less which would sort the field for you. Dave
Steve, If you are sailing on the river you should consider draft as an important characteristic. I don't know the hudson at all but C&C's are generally deep draft boats. You might want to say limit your draft to 4 feet or less which would sort the field for you. Dave
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Les Murray
I was in the same "boat" as you
Steve, Last year I was in the same position. I had a Hunter 20 and was looking to move up. I ended up with a Catalina 36 because of the size below (I have 4 kids). The one thing that I can suggest is to find a good broker to work with. I worked with a guy in Rhode Island whom I spoke with several times before we even looked at a boat. He asked all those questions every here is asking. Using a GOOD broker can really save you sonme time and hassle. You can go crazy looking at all the different boats for sale on Yachtworld and in marinas. One thing to think about in your selection is resale. Not a large priority, but if you figure that you will have your boat for about 5 - 10 years, how will it sell come time to move on? Good luck in your search and have fun. Les Murray s/v Ceilidh 86 C-36 #560
Steve, Last year I was in the same position. I had a Hunter 20 and was looking to move up. I ended up with a Catalina 36 because of the size below (I have 4 kids). The one thing that I can suggest is to find a good broker to work with. I worked with a guy in Rhode Island whom I spoke with several times before we even looked at a boat. He asked all those questions every here is asking. Using a GOOD broker can really save you sonme time and hassle. You can go crazy looking at all the different boats for sale on Yachtworld and in marinas. One thing to think about in your selection is resale. Not a large priority, but if you figure that you will have your boat for about 5 - 10 years, how will it sell come time to move on? Good luck in your search and have fun. Les Murray s/v Ceilidh 86 C-36 #560
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LaDonna Bubak - CatalinaOwners
Take your time
Whatever you do, don't rush into any purshase. Look at LOTS of boats with the sole purpose of "education". Look at boats you couldn't possibly afford and ones that are trashed. Go sailing on other people's boats as much as possible. Put up a posting at the local marinas, yacht clubs, etc that you're willing to crew. This will give you practical experience on a variety of boats (not to mention make new friends) and will help define what you want in your boat. LaDonna
Whatever you do, don't rush into any purshase. Look at LOTS of boats with the sole purpose of "education". Look at boats you couldn't possibly afford and ones that are trashed. Go sailing on other people's boats as much as possible. Put up a posting at the local marinas, yacht clubs, etc that you're willing to crew. This will give you practical experience on a variety of boats (not to mention make new friends) and will help define what you want in your boat. LaDonna
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Gary Bruner
So much to consider
Will the boat be moored? Ever want to trailer it? Is there a potential for getting into rough seas? Doing coastal trips? I personally just decided to keep my Catalina 25 because I can tow it to the San Juan Islands several hundred miles away, rather than sail up the coast of WA on a Tartan 30, which is a marvelous boat. The Cat works for me because of my needs. Make a serious priority list of what is essential....
Will the boat be moored? Ever want to trailer it? Is there a potential for getting into rough seas? Doing coastal trips? I personally just decided to keep my Catalina 25 because I can tow it to the San Juan Islands several hundred miles away, rather than sail up the coast of WA on a Tartan 30, which is a marvelous boat. The Cat works for me because of my needs. Make a serious priority list of what is essential....
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Richard Laribee
Sometimes the BOAT finds YOU
I didn't go looking for a boat, because I could never justify buying a boat until after our kids were all out of college. But completely out of the blue, our boat found us. The previous owner moved deep inland and had to give it up... and had to unload it. For him it had become an albatross. I traded him something I could no longer use for something he could no longer use. We're now in our third season on our '83 H-25 and LOVE it. We also sail on friend's boats -- a wide variety. Completely aside from the fact that we would still own no boat at all had I needed to buy it, we always come back thinking "we have the right boat for us." Large enough for our needs, and small enough to easily go out for a couple of hours on a whim, without a lot of hassle. We wouldn't trade ours for any we've yet seen.
I didn't go looking for a boat, because I could never justify buying a boat until after our kids were all out of college. But completely out of the blue, our boat found us. The previous owner moved deep inland and had to give it up... and had to unload it. For him it had become an albatross. I traded him something I could no longer use for something he could no longer use. We're now in our third season on our '83 H-25 and LOVE it. We also sail on friend's boats -- a wide variety. Completely aside from the fact that we would still own no boat at all had I needed to buy it, we always come back thinking "we have the right boat for us." Large enough for our needs, and small enough to easily go out for a couple of hours on a whim, without a lot of hassle. We wouldn't trade ours for any we've yet seen.
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