what boat should i buy? PART#3 the purchase!
- Thread starter sailorKevan
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Good job!
For all you guys who have been telling Kevan not to rush ... I think he mentioned at one point that he has been trying to find a boat for 2 years. In my mind, that's postponing the fun just a little to long! It sounds like that CS has some good qualities and maybe is in better shape than I believed. I'll have to say that I didn't think the advertisement showed the boat very well. You often can't tell if the pictures are masking a horrible condition or not revealing a very good condition. There must be an art to advertising that does it right.
I think that you found the right kind of boat for the sailing you will be doing. You'll have no problem honing your skills with that boat and the size won't leave you disappointed, unless you really crave something even larger. You'll feel secure in rougher weather conditions. If the decks are solid and the interior is dry and odor free, you will be very satisfied. Make sure the head is outfitted properly for the local regulations and if the engine runs well you won't go wrong. Getting a few months of sailing in this summer will leave you hungry for next season. If you don't have a boat at the end of this season, I'd bet that you could end up no better off at the same time next year! There is no time like the present for this kind of decision!
For all you guys who have been telling Kevan not to rush ... I think he mentioned at one point that he has been trying to find a boat for 2 years. In my mind, that's postponing the fun just a little to long! It sounds like that CS has some good qualities and maybe is in better shape than I believed. I'll have to say that I didn't think the advertisement showed the boat very well. You often can't tell if the pictures are masking a horrible condition or not revealing a very good condition. There must be an art to advertising that does it right.
I think that you found the right kind of boat for the sailing you will be doing. You'll have no problem honing your skills with that boat and the size won't leave you disappointed, unless you really crave something even larger. You'll feel secure in rougher weather conditions. If the decks are solid and the interior is dry and odor free, you will be very satisfied. Make sure the head is outfitted properly for the local regulations and if the engine runs well you won't go wrong. Getting a few months of sailing in this summer will leave you hungry for next season. If you don't have a boat at the end of this season, I'd bet that you could end up no better off at the same time next year! There is no time like the present for this kind of decision!
Kevan ... just read you latest post ...
all I can say is that I give you my honest opinion. I certainly can't tell all that much from the advertisements, but FOB's boat showed very well in the ad and I don't believe that the CS showed very well at all. You can dig out any kind of statistics and facts you want to justify your point of view. What it comes down to in my mind is that you have to feel something in your gut and in your heart when you are looking at a boat and deciding what it is worth. The money it is worth to you is a personal matter and influenced by way too many factors than can be summarized in a blue book or any other kind of book. I can't tell you if FOB is really serious about selling his boat, but I do know that if he is serious about selling it, he will get to the right price for somebody.
I never knocked the CS and in fact I think I pointed out some of the important things to look for. I pointed out that it could be just the right thing if you are willing and able to stamp your own signiture on it. I'm doing that very thing on my own boat. I've learned where I underestimated the time, value and importance of items that I am dealing with, but the experience has been important and worthwhile.
Some people want to buy a clean, well equipped boat, and not have to deal with the fuss, and some people want to put that effort into a boat that has less going for it. I think that I am a lot like many people who are willing to do it (fix up a boat) for the experience and then capitalize on that experience by making a great purchase on a move-up boat at a later time. I might want to buy brand new, but I want to know exactly what I want and I want to know where to look for quality.
I've been rooting for you all along, and I hope you can make the deal that leaves you feeling satisfied!
all I can say is that I give you my honest opinion. I certainly can't tell all that much from the advertisements, but FOB's boat showed very well in the ad and I don't believe that the CS showed very well at all. You can dig out any kind of statistics and facts you want to justify your point of view. What it comes down to in my mind is that you have to feel something in your gut and in your heart when you are looking at a boat and deciding what it is worth. The money it is worth to you is a personal matter and influenced by way too many factors than can be summarized in a blue book or any other kind of book. I can't tell you if FOB is really serious about selling his boat, but I do know that if he is serious about selling it, he will get to the right price for somebody.
I never knocked the CS and in fact I think I pointed out some of the important things to look for. I pointed out that it could be just the right thing if you are willing and able to stamp your own signiture on it. I'm doing that very thing on my own boat. I've learned where I underestimated the time, value and importance of items that I am dealing with, but the experience has been important and worthwhile.
Some people want to buy a clean, well equipped boat, and not have to deal with the fuss, and some people want to put that effort into a boat that has less going for it. I think that I am a lot like many people who are willing to do it (fix up a boat) for the experience and then capitalize on that experience by making a great purchase on a move-up boat at a later time. I might want to buy brand new, but I want to know exactly what I want and I want to know where to look for quality.
I've been rooting for you all along, and I hope you can make the deal that leaves you feeling satisfied!
I owned a CS30 for 4 years
They are exceptionally solid, well built boats. However, they are very different from modern (say after 1995) boats. Unlike the present-day boats, the stern is narrow - the width is not carried back as in Hunters and Beneteaus. As a result the boat tracks better and does not slide off following seas, but has much less cockpit space and an inadequate (in my view) berth. The CS boats go upwind very well, but the tall rig and small mainsail make them pigs off the wind. If the boat does not have a gennaker or similar, you will want one, particularly with our often light Lake Ontario summer winds. The original equipment does not include roller furling; if you don't have it, you will want at least two head sails, 3 would be better. No refrigeration is a pain, but the icebox is well insulated, and if you keep it full, will keep stuff frozen over a weekend.
I don't think the price is too high if the boat is sound, the engine runs well, and sails are not blown out. Things you want to know for sure: when were the sails replaced (can't be 30 years old, I hope) how old is the running rigging, when were the old analog instruments replaced? That plus a reasonable survey and you're good to go.
They are exceptionally solid, well built boats. However, they are very different from modern (say after 1995) boats. Unlike the present-day boats, the stern is narrow - the width is not carried back as in Hunters and Beneteaus. As a result the boat tracks better and does not slide off following seas, but has much less cockpit space and an inadequate (in my view) berth. The CS boats go upwind very well, but the tall rig and small mainsail make them pigs off the wind. If the boat does not have a gennaker or similar, you will want one, particularly with our often light Lake Ontario summer winds. The original equipment does not include roller furling; if you don't have it, you will want at least two head sails, 3 would be better. No refrigeration is a pain, but the icebox is well insulated, and if you keep it full, will keep stuff frozen over a weekend.
I don't think the price is too high if the boat is sound, the engine runs well, and sails are not blown out. Things you want to know for sure: when were the sails replaced (can't be 30 years old, I hope) how old is the running rigging, when were the old analog instruments replaced? That plus a reasonable survey and you're good to go.
FOB's boat
Was extremely well equipped with quality equipment. It also looks like a boat that has been cared for by an owner that has never allowed a day to go by that everything on the boat was not taken care of. I do not know the local prices of the same make of boat but it looked like there was at least over $10K of additions to a similar boat with just factory set up. When you are talking about a mint condition boat vs. a well maintained boat, there should be a premium price difference.
Was extremely well equipped with quality equipment. It also looks like a boat that has been cared for by an owner that has never allowed a day to go by that everything on the boat was not taken care of. I do not know the local prices of the same make of boat but it looked like there was at least over $10K of additions to a similar boat with just factory set up. When you are talking about a mint condition boat vs. a well maintained boat, there should be a premium price difference.
Kevan...
No offense intended, but I find your post very difficult to read. Wish you would use standard sentence format.
OK...
About the slip. I know you are putting in an offer in the morning. However, have you considered what you would do if for some strange reason, the slip does not become available to you? Will you discuss that with the seller/broker. If they say yes to the slip availability, get it in writing before you make any final payments. I'd hate for you to buy the boat with the understanding the slip is available, then find out you have to vacate. That would totally suck!
Good luck!
No offense intended, but I find your post very difficult to read. Wish you would use standard sentence format.
OK...
About the slip. I know you are putting in an offer in the morning. However, have you considered what you would do if for some strange reason, the slip does not become available to you? Will you discuss that with the seller/broker. If they say yes to the slip availability, get it in writing before you make any final payments. I'd hate for you to buy the boat with the understanding the slip is available, then find out you have to vacate. That would totally suck!
Good luck!
Congratulations Kevan
I knew you could do it. It's one of those major decisions that is not to be taken lightly. You have put much thought and many hours into this purchase. Congratulations again. Just be sure to make the contract contingent upon acceptance of the survey and a test sail. Be sure to turn everything on and raise all sails. Use every thing on the vessel. Open every port and hatch. Turn on all instruments and radio. Do some sailing and get the feel of her. If there is anything that shows up in the survey that you don't like. Thats ok. It just gives you bargaining power. They can either fix whats wrong or reduce the price so you can get it fixed. I'm sure others will chime in with their opinions. I'm envious of you now, because I remember what it was like getting my first "big" boat. How fun.
Keep it up,
Ctskip
I knew you could do it. It's one of those major decisions that is not to be taken lightly. You have put much thought and many hours into this purchase. Congratulations again. Just be sure to make the contract contingent upon acceptance of the survey and a test sail. Be sure to turn everything on and raise all sails. Use every thing on the vessel. Open every port and hatch. Turn on all instruments and radio. Do some sailing and get the feel of her. If there is anything that shows up in the survey that you don't like. Thats ok. It just gives you bargaining power. They can either fix whats wrong or reduce the price so you can get it fixed. I'm sure others will chime in with their opinions. I'm envious of you now, because I remember what it was like getting my first "big" boat. How fun.
Keep it up,
Ctskip
Kevan - that is a good CS-27 - great condition.
She has been over to Bronte before (cruising - not racing), and always looked pristeen going up the channel. Well looked after.
I just spoke to a surveyor friend, who also belongs to the RHYC, and he knows of the boat - spoke very highly of her.
The majority of those Canadian Sailcraft, C&C, Hughes, Grampians etc.made during the '70's will be around long after we kick the bucket.
Good luck with the deal.
BTW - do you happen to know the name of the surveyor who is going to check the boat?
She has been over to Bronte before (cruising - not racing), and always looked pristeen going up the channel. Well looked after.
I just spoke to a surveyor friend, who also belongs to the RHYC, and he knows of the boat - spoke very highly of her.
The majority of those Canadian Sailcraft, C&C, Hughes, Grampians etc.made during the '70's will be around long after we kick the bucket.
Good luck with the deal.
BTW - do you happen to know the name of the surveyor who is going to check the boat?
brian, sorry about the grammar but i type fast, so when you see
one of these------that is the end of a sentence or thought-hopefully that helps you out-ok, about the sails-he said the sails are "good" he said there not great-he said there is nothing wrong with the engine, and all the rigging seems fine
Recess: as i stated earlier-i would love to have FOB's boat but i have had a bad feeling about that boat as soon as it came up for sale-plus he is set on his price-i could afford it if i want to spend all my savings but i dont-
Ctskip-the sale will be contigent on the survey and test sail and thanks for the advice about turning everything on and seeing if it all works
jimQ-are you serious-you know this boat-and you know a surveyor-the reason i ask is because thats where im leary about this deal, the surveyor will likely know the broker, get back to me about this please-hopefully before morning-kevan
one of these------that is the end of a sentence or thought-hopefully that helps you out-ok, about the sails-he said the sails are "good" he said there not great-he said there is nothing wrong with the engine, and all the rigging seems fine
Recess: as i stated earlier-i would love to have FOB's boat but i have had a bad feeling about that boat as soon as it came up for sale-plus he is set on his price-i could afford it if i want to spend all my savings but i dont-
Ctskip-the sale will be contigent on the survey and test sail and thanks for the advice about turning everything on and seeing if it all works
jimQ-are you serious-you know this boat-and you know a surveyor-the reason i ask is because thats where im leary about this deal, the surveyor will likely know the broker, get back to me about this please-hopefully before morning-kevan
jimQ-are you serious
you know this boat-and you know a surveyor-the reason i ask is because thats where im leary about this deal, the surveyor will likely know the broker, get back to me about this please-hopefully before morning-keva
you know this boat-and you know a surveyor-the reason i ask is because thats where im leary about this deal, the surveyor will likely know the broker, get back to me about this please-hopefully before morning-keva
you know what im gonna doe guys
1st, im going to try to type better like brian suggests. Tommorow morning im going to go down to the marina and check a few things out before i put an offer on this boat and a down payment. I re-read David's and Jimq's posts and something sank in. What that means is this: im going to really take a good look at the cockpit to see if it is roomy enough for 4 ppl. Im going to really check the berths to see if a 6ft person is comfortable. I know it has new digital instruments because i saw them, but im really going to re-check the rigging and ask more about the sails. All he said about the sails were they were either fair or just good condition! He said that the canvass on the bimini and the sail cover were old but satisfactory. So im glad i re-read those posts, im glad they were posted. Now can anyone explain how to tell if the sails are ok? I would think that if the sails are not good enough that, that would be enoughto void the deal! kevan
1st, im going to try to type better like brian suggests. Tommorow morning im going to go down to the marina and check a few things out before i put an offer on this boat and a down payment. I re-read David's and Jimq's posts and something sank in. What that means is this: im going to really take a good look at the cockpit to see if it is roomy enough for 4 ppl. Im going to really check the berths to see if a 6ft person is comfortable. I know it has new digital instruments because i saw them, but im really going to re-check the rigging and ask more about the sails. All he said about the sails were they were either fair or just good condition! He said that the canvass on the bimini and the sail cover were old but satisfactory. So im glad i re-read those posts, im glad they were posted. Now can anyone explain how to tell if the sails are ok? I would think that if the sails are not good enough that, that would be enoughto void the deal! kevan
Sail Maine Check this one out
I wouldn't but a boat without a swim platform. I really like to swim.
I wouldn't but a boat without a swim platform. I really like to swim.
If Bernie...
Has that one listed it must be a nice boat. He is one of the most knowledgeable Yacht brokers I know of. He specialize in well found cruising boats.
Has that one listed it must be a nice boat. He is one of the most knowledgeable Yacht brokers I know of. He specialize in well found cruising boats.
Sale pending
Good Stuff Kevan, you found a boat that you are seriously interested in.. good luck with it.
Main sail... Ontario is a different market then the states when it comes with used boats. im not going to bother going into detail, put any 85 up to my 85 and Boa will blow it out of the water... A simple search on YW doesn't mean SH!T, cant compare a $13K one that is in the middle of Texas to one in Ontario!
Any how, The boat is sold as of tonight, just waiting for the buyer to setup the surveyor and we can finalize the deal, and I can start looking for BOA VIDA III...
p.s. Recess speaks allot of sense.
Good Stuff Kevan, you found a boat that you are seriously interested in.. good luck with it.
Main sail... Ontario is a different market then the states when it comes with used boats. im not going to bother going into detail, put any 85 up to my 85 and Boa will blow it out of the water... A simple search on YW doesn't mean SH!T, cant compare a $13K one that is in the middle of Texas to one in Ontario!
Any how, The boat is sold as of tonight, just waiting for the buyer to setup the surveyor and we can finalize the deal, and I can start looking for BOA VIDA III...
p.s. Recess speaks allot of sense.
Kevan
Don't be afraid to check out the batteries(date them) and the electrical system real careful. Look at the age of the batteries and the type. Flip on all the circuit breakers before you start the motor and keep them on all during the trip. Recheck them upon ending the trip. Listen and ask questions constantly while you follow the owner around. Let him take you for a sail and observe every little thing he does and ask why he is doing it that way. There is no such thing as a dumb question. Once underway then you can take the helm, do a couple of tacks and get the "feel", but let him get her going and watch carefully and ask questions. Upon returning let the owner dock her and watch every move he makes. Feel for drive line vibrations. Ask, where is the sweet spot for the motor? least vibration. The best rpm for it as far as running goes. Mine runs to 3200 rpm but runs best at 2500 rpm's Hes taking you for a sail not you taking him. Listen for all and any noises.While running the motor back to port go below and open the motor cover up and observe the drive line. Thats what you are there for , OBSERVATION. Be noisy, ask questions. Bring a friend with you. The owner should be able to start the motor with all the circuits on and functioning when returning. You don't want any "surprises" two weeks later with the electrical ghost appearing. Batteries are not cheap. Nor is a charger. See if the owner has kept a log for the maintenance of the diesel motor. Any spare parts? like fuel filters and belts, type of oil used. Hoses on the head are sometimes a overlooked smelly problem. How is the head plumbed? Where are the vents for the fuel and head? Also do all the thru-hulls function properly? Does he live local so you can call if need be? Thats always handy. Good luck and take some pictures for us. You can also follow the surveyer around and ask questions of him also.
Keep it up,
Ctskip
Don't be afraid to check out the batteries(date them) and the electrical system real careful. Look at the age of the batteries and the type. Flip on all the circuit breakers before you start the motor and keep them on all during the trip. Recheck them upon ending the trip. Listen and ask questions constantly while you follow the owner around. Let him take you for a sail and observe every little thing he does and ask why he is doing it that way. There is no such thing as a dumb question. Once underway then you can take the helm, do a couple of tacks and get the "feel", but let him get her going and watch carefully and ask questions. Upon returning let the owner dock her and watch every move he makes. Feel for drive line vibrations. Ask, where is the sweet spot for the motor? least vibration. The best rpm for it as far as running goes. Mine runs to 3200 rpm but runs best at 2500 rpm's Hes taking you for a sail not you taking him. Listen for all and any noises.While running the motor back to port go below and open the motor cover up and observe the drive line. Thats what you are there for , OBSERVATION. Be noisy, ask questions. Bring a friend with you. The owner should be able to start the motor with all the circuits on and functioning when returning. You don't want any "surprises" two weeks later with the electrical ghost appearing. Batteries are not cheap. Nor is a charger. See if the owner has kept a log for the maintenance of the diesel motor. Any spare parts? like fuel filters and belts, type of oil used. Hoses on the head are sometimes a overlooked smelly problem. How is the head plumbed? Where are the vents for the fuel and head? Also do all the thru-hulls function properly? Does he live local so you can call if need be? Thats always handy. Good luck and take some pictures for us. You can also follow the surveyer around and ask questions of him also.
Keep it up,
Ctskip
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