Henk
I cant resist ... you are leading with your chin ...
--- THIS IS ALL IN FUN --- It is banter, it is not a personal attack. Henk has sailed miles of ocean in his Hunter 43. I have NO doubt that he is a very good sailor and that his boat is sound and seaworthy ... I just feel the need to tease him a bit. If that might offend you ... please move on ... there's nothing to see here ... "Rivendel had neither an inner stay nor running backstays when we bought her new in 1991 ..." So you bought a boat with a rig that was not designed to have an inner forestay or running backstays? You decided that this was some flaw in the rig and the designer of the boat failed to include something you "had to add". Why would you do that? Who did the engineering of the modification? How was the mast section reinforced to handle the increased compression loads? The mast step? Who did the engineering of the loads on the hull at the inner forestay attachment point? The loads on the deck and hull of the running backstay loads? What leads you to think that the boat is not compromised by the increased loads your modifications have made? How sure are you that your redundancy has not increased the chance of failure of other parts of the system? If you didn't think the boat *as designed* was ready to go offshore, why didn't you buy one that was? If you wanted a cutter why not get a boat that was designed as one? Sloops rarely make good cutters when compared to boats designed as cutters in the first place. "The running backs only serve the function of keeping the stick inboard, particularly when the staysail is pulling pretty hard. In practice, however, we ALWAYS set at least one running back, even though it makes tacking and gybing a bit more work." ... so ... you are saying that the boat you bought is in danger of loosing the rig without the running backs when a sail that is same size as heavy air jib is driving the boat? That would mean that the boat's sister ships have a reputation for dropping their rigs on a regular basis ... and you decided to modify this shakey rig and take it offshore anyway? That sounds like a poorly designed rig to me. "The inner stay serves indeed several different purposes. However, I fail to see why the fact that it also can carry the staysail, a series of festive flags or a forehatch awning, while helping me steady myself on the open foredeck, should in any way detract from its 24/7 role as a back-up forestay!" You don't need a forestay when backing up ... Sorry ... that was too easy ... the designer didn't think it needed one, but you do ... no designer I know uses running backstays and inner forestays on cruising rigs for any other reason than to fly staysails with proper tension in the stay ... I could be wrong, the designer of every sloop (including the designer of your boat) that has ever lucked out and made it across a lake might be wrong too ... what are the odds of that? "To rely on a headsail's luff cord, tack shackle or even halyard, as gratis forestay backups, as argued by Moody, sounds to me like hoping to use a Scottish kilt as a redundant parachute.... Rivendel's inner stay has a breaking strength of approx. 14,000 lbs, I believe, whereas our genoa components only have a fraction of that strength." So you have a 3/8" inner forestay. I was not aware that Legend 43's had a history of dropping rigs. There is a word that describes designers of 43 foot boats that need an extra 14,000 pound test wire to hold the rig up ... the word is "unemployed". I think you needed the extra rigging. I don't think the boat has a serious design flaw that required it. If you are still with me, I'll also say that I think that the modification you made was very sensible. It is a common choice of many owners of production sloops that are heading offshore. Not for the same reasons you did it, but to create a more flexible sailplan and retain a roller furling headsail. What you have done is proved that a prudent sailor can take a production boat and take it across oceans. I admire you for that, and if we ever find ourselve sharing an anchorage, the beer is on me (if you promise not to pour it on my head). I'd like to hear some of the stories of your exploits. Fair winds, Randy
I cant resist ... you are leading with your chin ...
--- THIS IS ALL IN FUN --- It is banter, it is not a personal attack. Henk has sailed miles of ocean in his Hunter 43. I have NO doubt that he is a very good sailor and that his boat is sound and seaworthy ... I just feel the need to tease him a bit. If that might offend you ... please move on ... there's nothing to see here ... "Rivendel had neither an inner stay nor running backstays when we bought her new in 1991 ..." So you bought a boat with a rig that was not designed to have an inner forestay or running backstays? You decided that this was some flaw in the rig and the designer of the boat failed to include something you "had to add". Why would you do that? Who did the engineering of the modification? How was the mast section reinforced to handle the increased compression loads? The mast step? Who did the engineering of the loads on the hull at the inner forestay attachment point? The loads on the deck and hull of the running backstay loads? What leads you to think that the boat is not compromised by the increased loads your modifications have made? How sure are you that your redundancy has not increased the chance of failure of other parts of the system? If you didn't think the boat *as designed* was ready to go offshore, why didn't you buy one that was? If you wanted a cutter why not get a boat that was designed as one? Sloops rarely make good cutters when compared to boats designed as cutters in the first place. "The running backs only serve the function of keeping the stick inboard, particularly when the staysail is pulling pretty hard. In practice, however, we ALWAYS set at least one running back, even though it makes tacking and gybing a bit more work." ... so ... you are saying that the boat you bought is in danger of loosing the rig without the running backs when a sail that is same size as heavy air jib is driving the boat? That would mean that the boat's sister ships have a reputation for dropping their rigs on a regular basis ... and you decided to modify this shakey rig and take it offshore anyway? That sounds like a poorly designed rig to me. "The inner stay serves indeed several different purposes. However, I fail to see why the fact that it also can carry the staysail, a series of festive flags or a forehatch awning, while helping me steady myself on the open foredeck, should in any way detract from its 24/7 role as a back-up forestay!" You don't need a forestay when backing up ... Sorry ... that was too easy ... the designer didn't think it needed one, but you do ... no designer I know uses running backstays and inner forestays on cruising rigs for any other reason than to fly staysails with proper tension in the stay ... I could be wrong, the designer of every sloop (including the designer of your boat) that has ever lucked out and made it across a lake might be wrong too ... what are the odds of that? "To rely on a headsail's luff cord, tack shackle or even halyard, as gratis forestay backups, as argued by Moody, sounds to me like hoping to use a Scottish kilt as a redundant parachute.... Rivendel's inner stay has a breaking strength of approx. 14,000 lbs, I believe, whereas our genoa components only have a fraction of that strength." So you have a 3/8" inner forestay. I was not aware that Legend 43's had a history of dropping rigs. There is a word that describes designers of 43 foot boats that need an extra 14,000 pound test wire to hold the rig up ... the word is "unemployed". I think you needed the extra rigging. I don't think the boat has a serious design flaw that required it. If you are still with me, I'll also say that I think that the modification you made was very sensible. It is a common choice of many owners of production sloops that are heading offshore. Not for the same reasons you did it, but to create a more flexible sailplan and retain a roller furling headsail. What you have done is proved that a prudent sailor can take a production boat and take it across oceans. I admire you for that, and if we ever find ourselve sharing an anchorage, the beer is on me (if you promise not to pour it on my head). I'd like to hear some of the stories of your exploits. Fair winds, Randy
