Wet Decks and Can they be dried out?

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Jan 22, 2008
33
Ericson 29 tall rig old orchard beach, maine
I have a wet Deck from years of leaking hardware. I have done some test 2" holes with my hole saw and taken off the up side skin. Some are drenched others are very dry.

However, I would like to know if any of you have some idea on how to dry the deck out. With it dried out I would just inject West System in a theodical manor across the whole deck by 3/8 or 1/2" holes and let it saturate the wood core. Rotted or not this will work very well and make the deck better then new. However, it has to be dry to do this unless some one has more knowledge that I do not have.

Please Help I do not want to replace the whole deck and re-core it. The boat is not worth that to me as the Atomic 4 died last year. If I had to spend that money I would just sail it as is until it died and send it to the grave. The boat owes me nothing.

saberlin@yahoo.com
 

Eric M

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Sep 30, 2008
159
Island Packet 35 Jacksonville
I think you are on the right path assuming you have a wood core deck with glass on both sides. You want to drill holes 3/8" or so on a grid pattern, every 3" or so. Drill only thru the glass on one side and the wood, but not all the way thru. Now as you suggest inject westsystems in the hole until full. You may need to come back and inject more after it has had time to soak into surrounding areas. The idea is to create a grid of supports between the two layer of glass. I helped do this on the deck of a larger motorboat and it worked well. Once all the holes are drilled the longer you can let it dry to try to save what wood is left the better. A winter in heated storage or a summer in a barn would be best.
If you are looking for a quick fix, the epoxy cure is a chemical reaction and thus does not really care if the wood is wet or not.
Good Luck,
--Eric
 
Jan 22, 2008
33
Ericson 29 tall rig old orchard beach, maine
Eric,
That is exactly my idea. But I just want to be clear. If I have to do this with the core Wet you are saying that it will make no differnce the west sytem will dry (cure) anyway? And it will create the strength and saturation that I am looking for? Let me know. Steven
 
Jan 3, 2009
821
Marine Trader 34 Where Ever I am
steven, you are correct in that you will need to get the wet areas dry before you make any repairs and that includes injection. We have successfully used a vacuum pump secured to a hole in the center of the wet spots, with holes drilled in the out perimeter. This will have to run for a while so it take a continuous duty pump. Once no more moisture comes through the pump you can inject acetone which will mix with any wetness still there and evaporate. Be very careful with the acetone. Good luck, Chuck
 
Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
Eric-I would cut the side of the fiberglass away that is the thinnest, if one is thinner than the other. But if you have harware that is pulling upward, and you are cutting the fiberglass away to get to some wet core, I would cut the inside away and leave the outside in tact. It may be more inconvienent than just choosing the easiest to get to but it will be stronger.
 
May 19, 2009
22
Beneteau 323 Ipswich .. East Coast
Drying Decks

Use to sail a FINN Dingy and had a similar problem where your heals always rested on the deck .. Finished up using a router set to just get through the top layer .. I was suprised how big the hole was .. The balsa core was soaked and not in good condition .. Removed what there was that was damp .. Cleaned and dried everything .. Then applied West Epoxy then put in some core foam .. Then layed up mat on top .. Sanded to finish and painted with non slip ..

One point about drilling holes .. You can use an Allen Key in the chuck of your drill .. Feed in the hole and spin it around .. It will give you a bigger void and may let water out quicker .. You could also do with some holes underneath ..

Good luck ..
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Drying a saturated core with fiberglass skins is as easy as drying a bath towel in a plastic bag. It ain't gonna happen!
 
Oct 2, 2006
1,517
Jboat J24 commack
In repiaring My Cal 29 i had wood OUT of the boat for WEEKS that was still WET
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Having torn into a couple of "drill and fill decks" I can assure you that the repair, even when dry, does not penetrate like one would think. For the most part it did or does nothing. You could literally take a needle and poke it into core surrounding the repairs and feel where it ended. It penetrates very little beyond the hole and only tends to make future repairs significantly more difficult.

Also West systems will not "penetrate" nearly as well as a product like Smith's CPES as it is significantly more viscous. Drying a deck can take a LONG time and still may not work. A vacuum pump can help but the easiest way is to peel the skin and re-laminate it..

Having injected hundreds of potted deck core holes I can say without a doubt that the absorption of West Systems into a dry core is in the order of minuscule.

The center hole in this photo, filled with un-thickened West Systems, can literally cure like that with no more "absorption" into the core.



If you cut the piece in half after cure, and poke with a pin, you'll likely find that the epoxy really did not penetrate much if any..


Often times people confuse "absorption" with channeling. Channeling is the results of internal voids in the deck that can happen during lay up.
 
Jan 3, 2009
821
Marine Trader 34 Where Ever I am
Drying a saturated core with fiberglass skins is as easy as drying a bath towel in a plastic bag. It ain't gonna happen!
That is not true Ross, we have done it hundreds of times with long term satisfaction. But it also has to do with the extent of the saturation. There does reach a point where a complete removal of the core is necessary, but for smaller repairs it is easily done and has been done in yards all over the country for decades. Chuck
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
That is not true Ross, we have done it hundreds of times with long term satisfaction. But it also has to do with the extent of the saturation. There does reach a point where a complete removal of the core is necessary, but for smaller repairs it is easily done and has been done in yards all over the country for decades. Chuck
Drying a wood cored fiberglass deck is as easy as drying a bath towel in a plastric bag punched full of holes.The water got in as a liquid but it must escape as a vapor. Until you have done some distructive testing as Mainesail has shown and provening me wrong, I will stand by my statement.
 
Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
Before I would rely on epoxy absorbing into the core, I would just leave it the way it is.
I think it's easy to say the deck is dry once you've done a "repair". Is anyone checking with a moisture meter after the repair to see if indeed the water is gone?
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Small areas of core can be dried somewhat effectively but you need holes in order to facilitate this and often a heat lamp on the underside. These holes can be tough to patch and hide once the sun and some age hits them. They almost always show back up at some point so often times a lamination covering the fared holes is necessary.

Unfortunately this drying process takes considerable time and is ideally suited for small sections. The OP stated that lots of his deck is wet and I would never attempt a drill & fill on a scale that large. Drill & fill works best for areas of fry delamination that were not caused by moisture. Also if the core has begun to turn to mush there is no point in a drill & fill as the structural properties of the deck have been severely compromised and won't be safely repairable, in my experience, with highly viscous penetrating resins.

If the laminate is just damp, not saturated, then the integrity of the deck is still likely intact once dry. Drilling lots of holes can accomplish this on a small scale but ona large scale you are better to de-skin the boat and replace the core..

I have seen a three X three section of deck that was pinning the moisture meter needle still wet at seven months and that was with about 35 - 40 holes in it. In seven months you can do a lot of deck repairs..


This is an example of what a saturated core looks like during the rotting process. If you look ahead of the chisel you can see how the balsa just turns to mush when you touch it with the chisel. This was a deck penetration under a teak hand rail.



Here's another view of a saturated balsa core. As you can see the balsa actually looks wet and you can physically see the moisture.
One should note that this balsa, even in the present condition, still adhered quite well to both the top and bottom skins, in most places, and required a screw driver to pry this square from the rest of the deck. At some point this would have rotted and failed. Even this wet, the deck was still sounding out with minimal differences in tone so the only way to know was with a moisture meter or core sample. To the untrained ear, without a moisture meter and only a hammer, one might assume this deck was in A1 condition.
This is a good example of why spot soundings and moisture readings should always accompany one another.






This is the adjoining deck section to the photo above with the chisel. As you can see the color of the balsa is telling you how wet it is. If you scrape out this core and compress it between your fingers it drips water like a sponge would. It should be noted that at this stage of rot (early) the core is still tightly bonded to the skins. If this moisture were allowed to continue the color of the balsa would continue to darken and literally rot away leaving no strength.


If you just stop the moisture from getting in you can often sail the boats for many, many more safe years. With new water comes air, with air & water comes rot. Prevent any new water and the majority of air, with good sealed fittings, and you'll do well for a while before needing to re-core the deck. Once rot sets in the only effective fix, IMHO and experience, is new core..


Drying the deck, like a hull, is most often a time + time + time = time equation....:doh:
 
Jan 3, 2009
821
Marine Trader 34 Where Ever I am
MS, As usual all good points. I would believe though that the Ericson 29 our poster ask about is plywood cored depending upon the year. I am no means an expert on these boats. But many of your points still apply. As I stated it is dependent upon the degree of saturation. For large scale repairs this is often beyond the ability of the average boat owner. Chuck
 
Jan 22, 2008
33
Ericson 29 tall rig old orchard beach, maine
I want to thank all of you for your terrific Ideas and suggestions. I can see from the pictures that I have a more serious condition because I have some areas where the dect is dark brown very totted. I have some like the pix where there is still adheasion but some wetness and is still yellow or lighter in color. I would agree that I may beyond the dill and fill date due to the condition and or the scope of the repair. I think that my best solution at this point is to do as some of you have suggested and that is to do a little at a time over a winter or each spring. Also I am removing all the deck hardware and rebedding it to stop the leaking from continuing. I have started on the Cabin and found that some of that is plywood and some is Balsa. Very odd. I ahve all the windows out and will replace them with Lexan as the old ones are no good. Can't afford to install new ones.

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF I CAN USE 3M 5300 OR 4200 TO SEAL THE LEXAN W/O A REACTION TO THE PLASTIC?

In any event I am going to continue to sail the boat and continue to make repairs starting with the most severe that I know about and work over to the not so wet areas. Finally, one last question does any one recommend an inexpensive moisture meter that won't break the bank and where to buy it.

Steven
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
In general, I wouldn't recommend trying to dry out wet core material. It is often far faster and less expensive to properly re-core the area.... than it is to do a half-assed repair in the first place and then repair it properly the second time around.

Like MS, I have seen what trying to properly repair a "drill and fill" repair takes, and it is a royal PITA.
 
Jan 3, 2009
821
Marine Trader 34 Where Ever I am
steven, If you are bedding any kind of Plexiglas, etc. the best product we have found by far is Dow 795 and use the black since the white is not UV resistant. You will find it at a construction supplier and not a marine store. I would avoid Lexan since it is not very UV stable and will scratch craze faster that just plain old Plexiglas. DO NOT use 5200, 4200 or any of those for bedding. Chuck
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
steven, If you are bedding any kind of Plexiglas, etc. the best product we have found by far is Dow 795 and use the black since the white is not UV resistant. You will find it at a construction supplier and not a marine store. I would avoid Lexan since it is not very UV stable and will scratch craze faster that just plain old Plexiglas. DO NOT use 5200, 4200 or any of those for bedding. Chuck

Ditto what Chuck said. I will only add that you want to be sure to get cast acrylic. Acrylite GP is probably the most widely used in the marine industry but there are others.

McMaster-Carr has Dow Corning 795..
 
Oct 2, 2008
1,424
Island Packet 31 Brunswick, Ga
I had to remove the deck under my mast, as well as my pulpit and my chainplates. I drilled and suctioned and used acetone and heat lamps, in addition to the hot georgia sun. I could not get the deck to dry. Furthermore, all the holes i drilled made the out layer of fiberglass "skin" unusable for repair. The problem is two fold with the hole drilling to dry the core method.
1. It doesn't work very well.
2. It is not easy to get a good cosmetic result with all those little holes. If you havn't used epoxy to fill holes then you may not know, but the stuff is not like drywall putty or wood filler at all, it is very STICKY, and when you try to fill those wholes you cannot get a neat littlle patch, it smears eveywhere. so you have to fill the holes on the final pass with very thick epoxy higher that the hole, and then when it dries sand the area down. If it is on non-skid you end up with a smooth area which you have to match or ignore, then you gotta paint, or use gelcoat, and alot of other stuff. And all that work for a half-a...d repair.
It ended up being way easier to cut out the skin, and repair the core using appropriate technique.
BTW pics of the damaged area would be great
Keith
 
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