Wet core, would you buy?

[Ken Cross]

I'm looking for a new (used) boat and found one we really like (1988 Hunter 30.) The problem is I found a couple of areas that appear to be wet core. It's along the walkway next to the port toerail. I'm suspecting the water ingress came from the genoa track and also on the starboard side near a stanchion. The surface seems to be nice and firm, but my moisture meter shows a pretty good size areas are wet.

My question: would that be a deal killer to you or am I just overly cautious? I don't really want to do a bunch of glass rework.

Ken

 

[Bad Obsession]

It depends on how much damage there is. Probably best to get a surveyor to check it out. See what the surveyor says and take it from there. If you truly want this boat then it is worth the survey to make sure you aren't getting into an expensive problem.

You can also use the Survey to get the price down lower on the boat sometimes.

 

[shemandr]

Do you ever want to sell it?

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

It depends on how much damage there is. Probably best to get a surveyor to check it out. See what the surveyor says and take it from there. If you truly want this boat then it is worth the survey to make sure you aren't getting into an expensive problem.

You can also use the Survey to get the price down lower on the boat sometimes.

I think we can all anticipate what the surveyor would say.

My only other fortune telling advice is that most people have moisture somewhere in the core of the deck, rudder, structure, etc. and never know it. Our lst boat had high moisture readings around the foredeck anchor locker area which I periodically tested for years with no change or problem being noticed. At survey, it was a non- issue as I disclosed it and after many years, the subsequent owner reported no problem either.

No morale to the story other than for your consideration.

 

[gettinthere]

Lots to determine...
Is it really only wet in that spot of the deck?
Does it reach into any structural areas like chainplates or bulkheads?
Does the deck flex?
Is the core plywood or balsa? Balsa turns to mush more easily than plywood.

 

[BayMan]

No. I would not buy it. Too many fish in the sea.

 

[Ted]

A lot of boat owners don't realize that they have wet core until it's discovered during a marine survey. Fiberglass is an easy material to work with and making a repair is a fairly straight forward, do it yourself project. If the wet core was limited to a couple of square feet of area, I would not hesitate to purchase the boat. If the core material was balsa rather than plywood, moisture would most likely not travel as far as with a plywood core. A properly done repair will be as strong as the original. The most difficult part of the repair will be matching the color of the gelcoat or paint to the original. If the deck is still rigid and you don't want to do a proper repair, at least re bed the offending hardware to prevent additional water intrusion. I've seen horribly delaminated decks repaired with just injecting epoxy through a series of holes in the deck surface. Every buyer will have a different tolerance level when it comes to condition. Expect to find issues with a boat built in 1988. Don't loose site of the fact that you aren't paying $150K for it. It's a used boat. Almost everything can be repaired. If you like the boat, buy the boat!

 

[jibes138]

If the wetness is in an area requiring strength it needs to be fixed. For example around stanchions for lifelines, around cleats, around winches, around chainplates, tracks, etc. Of course why would it be wet unless fasteners in these areas were leaking? Mechanical systems might be more worrisome than wet core, if the boat is in good shape relative to the motor, pumps, rigging, sails, canvas, etc. it could still be a good buy for the right price. Unless a boat that old had every deck penetration removed and rebedded it will likely have some wetness somewhere.

 

[richk]

I kinda agree with most of the above posters. My previous boat had a core issue before I bought it which was remedied by the PO. The boat was an 88 also and I bought it in 98, traded it in this year with no problem.
Bottom line....like others said....how bad is it?....how much to fix?.....otherwise how's the boat?.....is it worth it to you?

2 cents
Rich

 

[Ken Cross]

Thanks everyone. This helps. I was trying to get a sanity check. I'm thinking it might depend on how far they are willing to negotiate the price.

Ken

 

[McIntoshUSA]

Newbie here. If you take it out of the water will it dry out in time?

 

[gettinthere]

If you buy this fall and store it so it stays out of precipitation, it may dry out by spring. You may be able to then 'drill and fill'.
You drill a lot of holes in the nonskid areas of the deck and inject a thin penetrating epoxy to soak into the plywood. Then paint the deck with nonskid paint to cover the holes.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Can you find a similarly-priced boat that you really like that has fewer problems to deal with? If so, keep shopping ... if not, then all problems are really just relevant to price.


Also, be aware that moisture meters can be tricky. I assume you are using a non-invasive protimeter. Readings can be affected by embedded materials. What are the readings? Wood products can hold moisture without damage up to a point depending upon moisture content and/or the length of time excessive moisture is being held.

I'd take the firm decks as a good sign and do a tap test with a small hammer. If you can detect a hollow sound in the areas that show excessive moisture, then be more concerned.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Newbie here. If you take it out of the water will it dry out in time?

No.

I think the OP was referring to deck core rather than the hull so it makes no difference where the boat is.
The real issue here is whether it matters if the core is wet. Opinions vary.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Generally speaking, a wet core simply isn't going to dry out because it is encased and the wood core doesn't get enough air for evaporation. Wood can tolerate a fair amount of repetitive wetting without damage if it can dry out rapidly enough to prevent degradation.

Also, "wetness" is relative. Wood can have moisture up to about 17% on a long term basis without rotting. Above that level, it will eventually rot. I'm curious what percentage the moisture meter reads. The wood core is installed "dry" which could be a moisture content of, say, 8 to 10% (I don't know, but maybe the boat manufacturer has a specification that states the required MC of core when it's being laid-up with GRP). If the reading is, say 15%, then it's clear that there is moisture that was introduced from some penetration, but it may not be a level that is damaging to the wood core. If it says the content is 20%, that's a little more concerning. If the meter is pegged at 40% + (the limit of most protimeters) then the moisture is probably a much bigger problem.

 

[Sanfelice]

You don't mention the asking price and how you intend to use the boat, i.e. extensive cruising, day sails etc.. As mentioned before, moisture meters can be tricky to use.Try sounding the deck with a plastic hammer. You will be able to hear whether the spots mentioned are that much different sounding than other part of the deck. A thud versus a sharper sound. Also, as mentioned before, if the suspect areas are not truly structural, I would find the source of the leak and fix. You are looking at an old boat. Old boats have problems. At some point an old boat will have too many problems to make it worthwhile to fix them all. Just address the critical areas and sail the boat. "Soft cores" and blisters are great points for negotiating. If you find that the soft core is minimal, I would buy the boat and fix them if it bothers you. I have not sailed the 34 but have sailed the 30 of that era and they are great boats and well constructed. Many 34s have sailed far and wide. Adding a baby stay helps with the rig strength if in tend to cruise long distances.
Bottom line, if it bothers you too much, move on to another boat.

 

[Ken Cross]

My moisture meter shows "0" most of the time (I've tried 4 different boats just for comparison) On the one we are looking for there are a couple of areas (several feet long) where it goes to the mid thirties. I'm pretty sure that the meter I'm using is giving an indication, not an accurate percentage because it really isn't intended for fiberglass. I don't think it's metal under glass because it shows in a fairly large area.

I'm using this:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-Pinless-Moisture-Meter-E49MM01/202048566

The boat we are considering is here:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...broker&&hosturl=portgardner&&ywo=portgardner&

And I see I mis-typed. It's a 1989

Ken

 

[CarlN]

I'd take it one step at a time. There is a well proven process for buying a boat:

Negotiate a price subject to survey. You are not an expert on wet core (or many other things) so don't factor this in.

After the survey, get a price for fixing the deck (and whatever else is found). This is likely to be a big number. Then you have another negotiation from which you can walk away. Your only risk is the cost of a survey if you don't buy it.

And if you are basically planning coastal cruising and the wet spots are not in critical areas (such as stanchion bases), then I would pocket the savings and not bother to fix it unless the deck is obviously "squishy" underfoot - even then, the best boat I ever owned had a squishy spot that didn't affect my use of the boat one bit over the ten years I owned her. Of course, when I sold her the squishy deck reduced the price - but I was expecting that.

You could also consider a "good enough" fix of injecting an epoxy through small holes. Easy to do. Certainly not a perfect repair that I would trust for a circumnavigation but a lot better than nothing.

http://www.boatlife.com/wet-wood-epoxy/

One thing to worry about is your insurance company's reaction to the wet deck in the survey. They might insist on a repair as a condition of insurance. The surveyor may have a suggestion about how to handle this.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

The question I would have is ... "does the meter provide an accurate reading?". Pinless meters are tricky, and this Ryobi meter is a relatively cheap meter. Yet, the reviews by a few people who appear to be relatively knowledgeable, seem to support it. Did you have it set for softwood? I'm pretty sure that is how I would set it. What is the core?

It's hard to know how the meter is affected by reading wood through a GRP layer. It's also hard to know how metal in the vicinity under the deck may be affecting the reading. I'm not sure I would trust the 0% reading, as it is rare to find wood that has no moisture, but kiln dried and laid up in a GRP wrap? ... maybe. The meter isn't accurate below 5% anyway. The 30% reading is definitely suspicious. To really be sure, a meter with pins is the best way to verify. That means small holes in the deck, if you can find a discreet place to do a test. I'd still start with the tap test to see if you can detect a different sound. That's non-invasive.

I think that if the deck feels solid, the tap test provides no evidence, and the suspected area of wet deck is not in a location where structural problems are likely to arise, I would proceed as Carl suggests. Keep in mind that the surveyor may have the same reliability issue with his pinless meter, if he is looking for wet decks. He may come to the same conclusion, but his opinion will probably carry some weight and be a point of negotiation.

That looks like a fine boat and worthy of the serious consideration. I wouldn't walk away without knowing for sure if the decks are a serious problem.