Westerbeke b30 three engine died

[Guan]

Hi Guys need your help again for engine diagnosis and thanks for all previous assistance.

My 2001 Oceanis 361 has 1720hrs on WesterbekeB30 Three.

Problem One: Elbow will be replaced. Injectors just reconditioned by mechanic.

a) Engine severe vibrations when JUST IN gear and smooth out when rev to above 900 but seems normal from user manual.

b) Max speed 2300 rpm and lost of black smoke (said by mechanic to be a blocked elbow??).

c) Engine mounts needs to be changed (more questions about this later)

Could drive out from the marina (about 20 mins) normal workings @ 2000rpm.

Problem TWO: This is causing great anxiety when returning to marina….

After sailing for few hours and returning into marina, on (normal) restarting engine it stalls and die when into gear after about 15 seconds.

Could immediately restart but stalls and die again each time into gear.

Engine runs OK (forward up to 2300 and reversed) when rerun next day TIED to slip.

Mechanic doesn’t know what to do!!! Said its a B.O.A.T.! maybe need replace elbow and see?? He already charged $1000 for reconditioning the three injectors.

Fuel problem impurities? (I use a ½ tanks each year and refill full for winter with Diesel Kleen and Biocides over 5 years). But why can run out OK and works well tied up at marina.

Fuel pump problem? Engine running OK at slip.

Well are stuck tied up! Dare not venture out with prospect of being towed in again!

Please help guys……. My mechanic is puzzled!


Engine Isolators:

I have ordered TWICE engines mounts for my 2001 361 Westerbeke B30 Three even from Westerbeke catalog and had to return twice as they don’t fit. Anyone has the correct part number or whom I have to go to find out? Thanks again and sorry for the long letter!

 

[TENACITY CS36T]

Are you running engine under load when tied to dock? Or just revving in neutral? That could be one difference.

 

[Guan]

Hi Paul,
I'm tied and running engine on load max can go 2500rpm forward n reversed.
Still no stall.
Stalling three episodes after sailing.Twice could restart and get back.
Worse this last time even after injectors reconditioned..could not run engine on load for more than a minute had to be towed in.

 

[NYSail]

1000 to recondition injectors? I bought 3 new for under 350..... Check your mixing elbow. Back pressure can snuff an engine. Good luck!

 

[Benny17441]

Most diesel engine problems are fuel or fuel system related. You have not mentioned the fuel filters; have they been replaced? What was their condition? Was the water separator drained? How much water did you find? So far you have a stalling engine and black exhaust smoke. The most common cause for an engine to stall when placed in gear is low idling RPM and it is more common with the single lever throttle/shift controls. As far as black smoke it shows inadequately burned diesel fuel and could be caused by various conditions; 1) obstructed air intake tube, 2) fouled propeller and/or hull, 3) fouled exhaust elbow, 4) fouled injectors, 5) low compression, 6) faulty fuel governor system. The diagnosis should move from the simplest and least expensive causes to the most costly ones. Whatever you do start with the fuel, make sure the tank is clean and the fuel is fresh, replace the primary and secondary filters. When the condition of the fuel is questionable some will hook up a small portable (outboard) fuel tank with fresh fuel to conduct diagnostics. The reason I mention this is in response to your observation that the engine seems to run adequately well at the dock but not after a sail. When the boat is in motion sediments and water in the tank will get stirred up an may cause restrictions at the filters.

 

[jibes138]

If you have access to your tank take a length of tubing that will reach the bottom of the tank so the tube fills with fuel, then close the top end with your thumb or a plug and withdraw the column of fuel. Empty it into a Ziploc bag or a mason jar so you can see the fuel clearly. Hold it up to the light and see if you have water, which will separate out at the bottom of the bag, sediment that will settle or be in suspension, stuff that looks all slimy floating around, and severe discoloration Even though you've used additives to the fuel you may have been leaking water from your fuel fill o-seal. If the tank was never emptied and cleaned and refilled it is probably a good idea. Private small planes typically take a sample of fuel before they fly to check for contamination and water. If you don't have access pull the hose from the primary filter and see if you can siphon some fuel from the tank to inspect it. If your pump is installed first after the tank just turn on the pump and pump some fuel into a Ziploc bag or mason jar.

 

[Guan]

Thanks Dave good idea will do this when I get back to the boat in November.
But why it runs OK when tied to dock? Only after sailing it stalls. Maybe shake the sediments?.

 

[Guan]

Most diesel engine problems are fuel or fuel system related. You have not mentioned the fuel filters; have they been replaced? What was their condition? Was the water separator drained? How much water did you find? So far you have a stalling engine and black exhaust smoke. The most common cause for an engine to stall when placed in gear is low idling RPM and it is more common with the single lever throttle/shift controls. As far as black smoke it shows inadequately burned diesel fuel and could be caused by various conditions; 1) obstructed air intake tube, 2) fouled propeller and/or hull, 3) fouled exhaust elbow, 4) fouled injectors, 5) low compression, 6) faulty fuel governor system. The diagnosis should move from the simplest and least expensive causes to the most costly ones. Whatever you do start with the fuel, make sure the tank is clean and the fuel is fresh, replace the primary and secondary filters. When the condition of the fuel is questionable some will hook up a small portable (outboard) fuel tank with fresh fuel to conduct diagnostics. The reason I mention this is in response to your observation that the engine seems to run adequately well at the dock but not after a sail. When the boat is in motion sediments and water in the tank will get stirred up an may cause restrictions at the filters.

 

[Guan]

Good suggestions and advice.
Thanks will do this. Guan

 

[Guan]

Benny17441, I am still land locked in Bowie will do all you mentioned when I get back to Vancouver, thanks again. Guan

 

[Guan]

Hi guys: back to boat and now found as Benny advised 1/4 inch muck in Racor filter.
My 361 has a fiberglass tank with no inspection hole.
Any advice on how to clean this muck out? unable to get a tubing onto the fuel from fuelling port.
Can a tank inspection hole be installed? From where as there seems to be no access.
Thanks again.
Guan

 

[kloudie1]

Usually something like this will be installed to enable thorough cleaning.
http://www.seabuilt.com/

 

[druid]

Hey, another Wet Coaster - welcome!

Sounds like you found your problem, though, so I'll just drop in to say hi. And to point out (if someone else has problems like this): could be something seized or hard to turn in the transmission/propshaft area. Overworking the engine causing black smoke, high resistance causing stalling when you go into gear...
Another problem I had that was somewhat similar: a very flat fuel tank under 1/4 full meant a big wake allowed the engine to "suck air" - being a typical Yanmar it was a 2-hr job to get the air out!
One thing to keep in mind about diesels: all in all they're pretty bullet-proof: if something is wrong, 99% of the time it's about the fuel.

As for access: I believe ABYC prohibits "inspection ports" in a fuel tank, but you can cheat a little if you have a typical fuel-gauge sender: the hole is usually around 2.5 inches dia which allows you to get a FEW things in...

druid

 

[jibes138]

Hey, another Wet Coaster - welcome!
As for access: I believe ABYC prohibits "inspection ports" in a fuel tank
druid

Not sure about this. http://newboatbuilders.com/docs/PY_JAN09_51-54_FUEL_TANKS.pdf
This link notes diesel tanks often have clean out ports on the top of the tank. I recently installed a Moeller polyethylene tank and it came with a clean out port already installed in the top. In the absence of one you are right it is SOP to go through the gauge port to pump out the tank and to insert a hose to flush the inside. In this case I'd recommend using a "polishing" service to go in with a high pressure flushing and then suck it all out unless the tank can be removed for cleaning in the absence of a clean out port.

Also to the OP, if your mechanic "gave up" without even looking at the fuel system as a potential problem you might want to bring in a different mechanic.
Good luck with your troubles.

 

[Guan]

Guys always good advice and sensible comments.
Looks like going to be thro the gauge opening and clean out is a must as after a filter change some more black sooty muck was in the just cleaned Racor bowl! Just hope repeated siphoning and refills can clean the tank.
Finding a fuel polisher is just as difficult as a good marine Mechanic here!
Just replaced the exhaust elbow on mechanics diagnosis and found out its completely patent. Another few hundreds into his retirement kitty!!
Thanks Guys.

 

[jibes138]

Just a suggestion. I made a very simple pump filter system to empty my tank. I made a right angle plywood mounting board and to the vertical part I mounted a 12V fuel pump I got at a NAPA auto store and a diesel fuel filter/water separator (note you can get them cheap at tractor supply stores). I also added a switch to turn it on and off and a couple leads to connect it to a battery. A few fittings and some fuel hose (also available at auto parts stores) completed the system. Whole thing was about a hundred bucks. Now I can suck out my fuel into jugs easily and doing so it runs through the filter, Then after the tank is empty and clean, either dispose of that fuel or use the same pump to pump it back into the tank so it is filtered again going back in the tank. Depending on your tank size you might need a lot of jugs though. My new tank is 23 gallons so four 5 gallon jugs is adequate if the tank isn't completely full. This will be a lot easier than "siphoning" and you will have it for future maintenance needs.

 

[Guan]

Hi Guy,
First a very big thanks for all the helpful advices.
I've done most of the clean fuel suggestions.
Got out yesterday, first time since last year.
Everything working great. Thanks again.
Guan

 

[Guan]

Too soon to celebrate, after second day sail n driving engine with relief it die on my third time out.
Yes, no problem driving for 1hr then when doing a fast 360 turn in 15 knots wind and moderate sea it suddenly lose power n died, could restart but die again after a few seconds. Towed back!
Mechanic changed the engine secondary filter, contains coffee grounds junk (10+ unchanged).
He said need to check fuel pump pressure too as engine is running smooth....next visit ,next week.
Hope he's on right track.

 

[kmacdonald]

Does it seem to act up only in rough water? If so it's obviously a dirty fuel tank or water in the fuel.

 

[odaydokay]

Agree. The three most important things on a diesel are 1. Fuel, 2.Fuel and 3.Fuel.....