Westerbeke B30 doing the Elvis below 900revs, Normal?

[Guan]

Hi Guys:

Need some more wise advice again.

I have Westerbeke B30 (3 cylinder) engine 1700hrs on B361. This problem was since I got the boat 4 years ago but don’t know if it is a problem or just instrinsic B30. Someone mentioned they all shakes.

Engine Idling tuned: 1000-1100 as in manual (everyone says is too high) but the

problem is...

1. If set lower than 900 the whole engine shakes and vibrates worse than Elvis.

2. If into gear ONLY (no acceleration added) engine revs immediately drops from 1000 idling into 600-700 and engine do the Elvis severely. So I cannot slowly come into my tight berth on just in-gear below 900 or less without severe vibration!!! Dangerous speed at 1000.

3. Same with reverse.

4. There seems to be NO secondary fuel filter at the engine.

5. Is this normal for Westerbeke B30? (I have a Racor Primary Filter installed).

Anyone with B30 experience please help. Thanks.

Also 3 pencil zincs eroded off and lie tightly stuck in heat exchanger and there is no room to put in new ones thro the normal screw-on hole. Can anyone assure me that those stuck zinc will protect the exchanger until they wear off as I cannot install new pencil zinc in the normal hole without removing the whole thing to extract!!

Thanks Guys.

Guan

 

[kito]

When was the last time the motor mounts were changed?

 

[Philip_Oceanis 361]

My Beneteau 361 has a Volvo MD2030, which is a 3-cylinder engine too. At idle 800rpm it shakes a little bit but nothing really annoying. At 1200-1300rpm it also does the Elvis stuff either in gear or not. Engine mounts are new. My mechanic says that a lot of engine do this at some rpm, especially 3 cylinders and less and there's nothing you can do. This is just for comparison.

 

[Guan]

Thanks Kirk and Phil.
Mount seemed a little lower ? Worn?
One mechanic suggested changing and two returns of wrong mounts (even from Westerbeke). The other mechanic was more interested in changing the "blocked" elbow and injectors...BOAT it is, don't recommend mounts to be change as yet.
Was on a Hunter 30 but it's real smooth. Guess B361 3 cylinders are just shakers if Phil's volvo is same. Just wondering if Yanmar does the dance too.

 

[Philip_Oceanis 361]

Thanks Kirk and Phil.

Was on a Hunter 30 but it's real smooth. .

Are you sure it was real smooth in ALL rpm, from idle to maximum? A bit difficult to believe. Usually at some rpm you have some kind of Jackson dance (OK I am using a different singer now!!) and try to avoid this particular rpm.
Of course you seem to have a different problem. If I understood it well at 1000-1100 your engine is fine but in gear rpm drop to 600-700 and vibrates a lot. From my extremely limited mechanical knowledge, something probably loads the engine too much and rpm drop so much. Could it be a bigger than standard alternator? Or probably the belt is not up to the job? I don't know.

 

[woodster]

Jackson dance (OK I am using a different singer now!!) and try to avoid this particular rpm.

and ware white glove on hand

 

[bshock]

Guan, I have a B361 with the Westerbeke engine you refer to, and I experience the same thing. I have a diesel guy come out and service the engine every spring and fall, just to have a look at it. He says the Westerbeke 30B3's do indeed shake at about 900 rpms or lower, which is why the idle speed should be set to between 1000 and 1200 as the manual states. And my engine does the same as yours; once I throttle down to idle speed the rpms drop to below 900 and the shaking begins. To deal with this I simply throttle it into neutral as soon as the shaking starts. If I need more steerage I just shift it back into forward for a moment or two.

so basically, from what my diesel mechanic said, and other folks I've heard talk about the 30B3, it's normal. I'm on my fourth year with the boat.

I'm afraid I don't know what to tell you about the zincs.

 

[Philip_Oceanis 361]

[

4. There seems to be NO secondary fuel filter at the engine.


Guan[/QUOTE]

I have found this very strange and since I am not familiar with these engines I did some search on the internet. Have a look at the installation manual, page 14 in this web site. http://www.westerbeke.com/Category/30BThree/5399ADA2DAF73A26740BF634#techdocs


From the manual:

INLET FUEL FILTER
To ensure clean fuel into the fuel pump, there is a small inline
fuel filter connected to the fuel lift pump elbow. This
filter should be replaced every 250 hours of operation or
once a season, which ever occurs first.

 

[Maine Sail]

Can your engine attain 3600 RPM at full throttle?? Post a pic and we can point out the fuel filter..

 

[Stu Jackson]

Also 3 pencil zincs eroded off and lie tightly stuck in heat exchanger and there is no room to put in new ones thro the normal screw-on hole. Can anyone assure me that those stuck zinc will protect the exchanger until they wear off as I cannot install new pencil zinc in the normal hole without removing the whole thing to extract!!

Bite the bullet, take it out, clean it up and replace the zincs. You do know why the zincs are there? When the zincs "go", and since you won't know when 'cuz you can't see them, your entire HX will slowly disintegrate. It's a nominal $300 item, the HX. Is it worth it to you because you couldn't find the time to do what's right? Excuse my exuberance, but it's your boat and it needs maintenance. Either do it yourself or have someone else do it. If the HX goes internally your engine could overheat. What's your entire engine worth to you? Usually anywhere from $7,000 to $12,000 for starters. Is it really worth that risk for an afternoon's work?

 

[Stu Jackson]

If into gear ONLY (no acceleration added) engine revs immediately drops from 1000 idling into 600-700 and engine do the Elvis severely. So I cannot slowly come into my tight berth on just in-gear below 900 or less without severe vibration!!! Dangerous speed at 1000.

Sure you can. Just click it in and out of forward gear as you're coming in.

 

[Guan]

BShock thanks very asuring advice re vibrations and don't feel so lonely shaking below 900s, have been doing the on n neutral drill with limited in gear periods berthing.

Stu, will try to dig zincs out..as per your advice...hope can do. If not will get someone to dismantle the HE to remove them, thanks.
Will take photos to discover where they hide the engine fuel filter. Just couldn't feel it following the fuel line right under engine into the engine. Will contort again to check....my chiropractor's got his appointment book out already.
Good sailing...anyone in Vancouver for fireworks drop me a line.

 

[Guan]

Mainsail, 3000revs in open waters, but only 2600 tied to docks. Prop shaft moved well by hand on neutral.
Will try to get photo n post for further advice..thanks again.
I'm always happy to read such great comments from fellow boaters. Much obliged guys.

 

[Maine Sail]

Mainsail, 3000revs in open waters, but only 2600 tied to docks. Prop shaft moved well by hand on neutral.
Will try to get photo n post for further advice..thanks again.
I'm always happy to read such great comments from fellow boaters. Much obliged guys.

You are over propped by about 600 RPM which is part of the problem.. Confirm the tach is accurate the address why you can't attain 3600 RPM..

 

[tonymarchesani]

To extract the old pencil zincs you will need to unscrew the heat exchanger end cap near the zinc location, remove the cap and gasket, and dig out the old pieces of zinc that will be in 2 of the 4 heat exchanger quantrants. If you can't remove a piece that is wedged in and preventing a new zinc to be installed you can carefully use a drill bit a little smaller than the new pencil zinc that is 3/8" diameter. Insert it through the heat exchanger zinc threaded opening and turn the bit by hand to ream out the old zinc carefully without messing up the threads the new zinc will thread into. I've use a 21/64" bit for this. While the heat exchanger end cap is off with a mirror and light you can see the condition of the heat exchanger tubes without taking the whole heat exchanger out.
Yes that engine has a secondary fuel filter on the back end next to the electric lift pump. Filter is about 2 1/2" high and 1 1/2 " in diameter if I remember.
Best to remove aft cabin cushions and access all this from there.

 

[Capn John]

Look at the pic on page 8 of the manual https://www.westerbeke.com/operator's manual/20b two-30b-30c three operators manual 36906 rev 5.pdf and you will see the location of the secondary filter.

My engine runs smoothly when "just" slipped into gear, then vibrates a bit as throttle increases until it hits the sweet spot and smooths out again.

 

[Guan]

Thanks all, still digging for the filter n zns v v covered space.
Will revert w news tks.
Any comments re running engine at max throttle tied up (2600 max on mine B30) to docks vs running in water (can max 3000 in water)...as I only need 15 mins @ mandatory 5knt from berth into Bay so seldom reach Max revs. Maybe can just rev tied up if not damaging to engine. Ts.

 

[Philip_Oceanis 361]

Any comments re running engine at max throttle tied up (2600 max on mine B30) to docks vs running in water (can max 3000 in water.

This is normal, I mean tied up the maximum rpm will always be less than running in the water. The reason is the huge load on the engine/propeller. You are trying to move the whole.....marina.

 

[Guan]

Yeah Phil. parts of my fairway has widened by my selfless community effort!

 

[Caboteur]

Timing?
A diesel engine is "timed" by the high pressure pump. The vaporized fuel is injected before the piston reaches the top of it's course. The ignition delay will make the explosion occur at the top or as engine speed increases lower and lower on the downstroke. As engine speed decreases the explosion obviously occurs earlier and earlier... if the explosion occurs before the piston reaches the top of it's course the engine will vibrate and may even knock. Since you write that this occurs at 900 RPM can your engine go any slower 700 or 800 RPM and does the vibration get worse? Your engine has 1700 hours on it; what maintenance has been done to it? Pump timing, injectors cleaned, valve adjustment etc. maybe it's time to have it looked over and have all this maintenance done.
Pierre