West Marine to Acquire BoatU.S. Retail, Catalog &

[Carlos de Luzuriaga]

won't miss sailnet

I won't miss Sailnet. While their prices looked very attractive, the two times I placed orders with them, I ended up canceling these due to non-delivery. I live outside the USA and was unable to ever reach them by telephone. Most of the time my e-mails went unanswered and it took a long time to get my money back. I started to buy stuff from West Marine because the extra cost was worth actually getting delivery of what I ordered. However the best service of any of the online shops cam from right here at sailboatowners.com..

 

[Jim Willis]

Its a matter of lack of choice

If you want an inflatable boat you will only have one choice at WM- "their" brand i.e. Zodiac and the Avon is also made by Zodiac. I can imagine what will now be happening to Boat/US and. I have now found that they are "retiring" their inventory in place of WM inventory. No manager has say anymore in a "manager buy" system and IG that was in Boat/US for inflatable boats will be gone plus the product their manufacturers recommended for their restoration (IG). Also explains why they "were not taking in new items this year" response. All big companies want small inventory with less choice so that they have max control. If you want boat care products, WM push "their" own brand. Reason for this private label branding is that you cannot price compare anymore and they make all the markup of being retailer, wholesaler and "manufacturer".The whole idea of the "american dream" i.e. free enterprise and entrepreneurship is that the guy with the better mousetrap gets ahead.West do many things that are borderline legal (ncluding telling people that company XYX is "now out of business", but due to the way our "democracy" (also lack of choice really) is run, the big guys will always kill the little guys, therefore killing entrepreneuship. eventually, most everyone will either be a wage earner, independantly rich, or unemployed!The unfair thing is that the rules are constantly changing in this direction and even the internet is now being corrupted by the big fees being charged to get on the search engines (e.g. yahoo).Of course, ultimately, the customer is also being ripped off too, becuase you are paying only for things that are available no matter how bad they may be (no competition).Will eventually all the companies, the media and the internet system all be part of one big company? It can happen and -hey! what happens when these "big" companies get into trouble financially? (as opposed to the small guy who goes under?) yes they will get bailed out!Back when I first started my business in 1995, I used to have owners of small stores ranting about WM ("they are trying to put me out of business.... etc"_ but I could not understand it because the managers were all so nice to me (still are!). Now nearly all those small stores are gone and its the suppliers who are being shafted. Sorry to rant so much but I see all this in personal terms since it's my own lifesavings and work that are involved!Jim W

 

[Jack Tyler]

Some of you just don't get it...

Sorry for the provocative title but I was hoping to steer 'both sides' to this polarized discussion. First, I notice that not one comment on the WM acquisition here includes a reference to - let alone depicts an understanding of - the business rationale for the acquisition. After being directly involved in two divestitures, one (failed) acquisition, and one merger, I can assure you the biz rationale has a direct bearing on what we can all expect in the future re: WM pricing, store locations, rebranded products, and the other 'customer' issues mentioned here. My point is that all these comments, whether WM=good or WM=Evil Empire in nature, are suppositions insofar as WM's long-term changes (or more likely, lack of them). And if anyone here believes the past is prologue, some reflecting back on the consequences of the E

 

[Craig]

Won't miss Boat US in mpls

Here in mpls boat us service/operation ranks right up there with sears!

 

[Paul Akers]

WM Bashing

Why, all of a sudden, everyone is bashing WM? I don't recall seeing any bashing going on before. WM has been reputable here in the NE for quite a while. Price matching has always kept them in check and there are still enough other stores (BoatersWorld, Defender, etc) to continue to keep them in check. I haven't seen them controlling prices. Frankly, I think it is good when they come out with their own brands and keep the "private labels" in check themselves. I don't have any gripes about this.I am open-minded about this discussion and I can certainly be convinced whether it's good, or not. But nobody has convinced me yet.It is funny, though, that the Boat/US store in Newport, RI closed, unannounced, about 5 years ago. Was this a sign of things to come?

 

[Bob Todd]

I really don't...

...give a rat's bee-hind. All you people do is whine! Whine...whine...whine! Well, why don't YOU put a group of investors together and see exactly how tough it REALLY is to run a business. And I mean a REAL business, not some piddly assed mom & pop thing with two employees and both are related.And another thing, since when is there discount ANYTHING in the marine world? The words discount and marine are mutually exclusive. That one chandlery is a buck or two cheaper, or even a few, does not make it a discount place.People who think prices are okay right now are either blind or stupid. Prices have always been high. But there are more choices than you think. You can pay the local prices, or you can price shop the brick and mortar places and the internet, or you can go get yourself another hobby.My other hobby is rare coin collecting, and we have a saying in that hobby..."There ain't no Santy Claus in coin collecting." Well my friends, nobody promised you cheap boating and there ain't no Santy Claus in this hobby either.And if you think it's going to end here, think again. Waiting lists at marinas are growing by the thousands! Marinas are beginning to implement CONSIDERABLE hikes in fees because of this. In my sailing area alone, marinas have waiting lists of two or more years. People are having to seek moorage/dockage a hundred miles or more away from their homes because that's where they were able to get in. Add to all of this, the fact that our governments (Fed, State, & locals) are continually hounding marinas with regard to sloppy maintenance practices, HAZWASTE disposal, etc. being engaged in by their staff AND marina patrons alike, we're all going to be banned from doing our own maintenance. There are some places that already restrict patrons from performing some tasks.You want to do something to combat high costs of sailing? You're doing it right here, right now! You're exchanging ideas, coming up with alternatives to high priced chandleries and boat yard fees.Bottom line is, we all would like to enjoy cheap sailing, but it just ain't gonna happen. Someone will always be standing on the sidelines waiting to dip their hand in your pocket, so just get over it.You guys have a great time sitting around the marina or club, or even here, commiserating, bitching, and whining...I'm going sailing...I'm going to enjoy it....and I'm going to keep on enjoying it until I die or can't afford to do it anymore, and THEN I'm going to sit back and appreciate the time I was able to do it.Don't forget, it's a free country and you have freedom of choice. Sailing is one of those things that you will not die if you don't have it. We have chosen this as a hobby and by having voluntarily made this choice we must live with it warts and all.To put it in another perspective, I drive a big gas guzzling 4X4 truck. The gas mileage downright sucks. I've never bitched about it, though. Because I knew it going in, I only have myself to blame, and to answer to.We now return you to our regularly scheduled banter.Okay, fire away!Cheers,Bob

 

[Rick D]

Jack's Response

..brought a bit of a smile. I was looking at WM branded binoc's. Didn't feel like buying just yet (cheap). Looked at a pair in Sportsman's catalogue. Darn: looks familiar. Compared spec's. Yep. Olive instead of blue. WM $199. Sportsman's $149. I ordered them. That's the good news. Bad news? They are both knock-offs from the same source. Must be winter time. This rant's really taken off;^

 

[Kate]

Three cheers

to Bob Todd!

 

[Pete Staehling]

Bad News

I stopped dealing with West Marine about a year ago. I hope I dont have to do the same for BoatUS now. I ordered merchandise at the local WM store. I was promised delivery in some short time (If I remember correctly, less than a week), but I had to pay up front. The merchandise didn't show up and it didn't show up. This went on for a couple months. At no time did anyone call me. Every few weeks I dropped in and asked, but was always told it would be a few more days. At no point did anyone apologise for my inconvience.Finally I asked for a refund. I was told I had three choices:1. Credit the account that I made the purchase from (the account had been paid off and closed).2. Store credit.3. A check from WM corporate headquarters.I took option 3 and it took a full month for them to cut the check. By the time it was all over they had my money (a few hundred) for over three months.When I cancelled out the order the employee was rude and acted put upon.I wrote to both the local store and the corporate office and complained, but never got any response from either.I always got good service at BoatUS in the past. I bet that will end soon.I actually prefer to deal with my local marina anyway. On many items they are actually cheaper, but they don't carry as much stuff in stock.

 

[Tom Ehmke]

OOOh, spank me, Bob Todd, spank me.

Spare the rod and spoil the child, right!! You certainly chewed some a--, but I couldn't help but notice a little bitchin' of your own in your post.So what if we all buy our groceries at Wally World some day!! So what if WM drives the competition away, and becomes such a cash cow that it is eventually taken overy by Wally World. So what if Ma Bell reacquires all the communications systems in the world... and eventually is sucked up by Wally World.I guess what you're saying is that everything is ok in a shitty way and always has been. The world's no less a shitty place for sailors than anyone else, so get over it?!??Of course, there are other hobbies in the world, but aren't you the least bit troubled by the take-overs of businesses, hostile or otherwise? I know some people at BoatUS who will be looking for jobs after years of service there both in Toledo and Port Clinton.Your ass-chewing seems a bit simplistic to me.By the way, Enron WAS a great company, right? No mom and pop operation there... AOL-Time Warner is a great place to work right now, right?There... now I've breathed my fire for the day. Enjoy your year-round sailing season. I guess I'll just sit here and bitch about the cold weather up here in the midwest and moan and groan about my boat being on the hard for the winter. Tom

 

[Phil Herring]

Bob

'why don't YOU put a group of investors together and see exactly how tough it REALLY is to run a business.'Alot, and I mean _many_ of the folks on this board have done just that, myself included. Have you?

 

[Bob Todd]

Hey Tom! How's the weather by you?

I WISH I was in year 'round sailing season, but I'm up here in the NE. Oh well, anyway, I fully understand and appreciate what you're saying, but people tend to bitch and whine rather than do something collectively.Case in point, my opening paragraph. Get a bunch of well (and maybe not-so-well) heeled folks together and do it as a group. If I don't like something, I don't use/buy/deal with it. I do my bitchin' with my wallet and so should everyone else. How about forming a buyer's club where you can order things in bulk and enjoy the savings.Remember the infamous baseball strike of a few years back? Well, I decided I wasn't going to patronize the game anymore because I was fed up. I didn't sit in my season box seats (which I gave up) and bitch to the guy next to me. For that matter, I didn't bitch at all...I just walked, and life went on.Now, if everyone in the boating world collectively told all the businesses to shove it and then walked away with their money, AND sat and bitched to each other, then that's acceptable because you are also doing something for the cause...you're taking a stand and making a statement.Prices suck all over the industry but we pay to play. Some say that by paying they've earned the right to complain. I say that if you complain after you pay, that means it bothered you to pay, or you don't feel you were getting value for money, in which case you could have saved youself a ton of aggro and do-re-mi if you just didn't play at all.We make choices in life. Some we make because we HAVE to and some because we CHOOSE to. I can bitch about the ones I HAVE to, but it was my choice for the others and I live with it.Cheers,Bob

 

[Daniel Jonas]

Gee Whiz!

Seems like this is getting a little wild! The retail world has been changing for a long time. The explosion around internet commerce is making it move even faster.It is no surprise to me that there are and will be consolidation in retail establishments that have fixed locations (real estate). Have you noticed over the last 20 years how much larger regular grocery stores have gotten. It is the need for efficiency in delivering a wide range of products. Look at how many of us shop at Costco, or similar stores. This is not a conspiracy to take over the retail world. It is a response to the realities of land cost, construction and infrastructure cost, taxes, fees, labor, utilities, etc. All the things it takes to run a fixed location business.To some extent, Internet based businesses are part of the problem too. Having said that Phil, I am a supporter of the movement to internet based businesses. However, one can't overlook the effect it is having, and will have on our ultimate ability to touch and feel before we buy. Have you ever gone to a retail outlet to check something out, and then bought it on the internet. As more people do that, finding the product to touch and feel will become more difficult.I have a friend in the banking business who told me there will be no need for a physical bank building in 10 years, except to cater to those who think they can't live without it. And some banks may not want to chase a crowd that may be that small. The lines in my bank are a lot shorter than they were 15 years ago and there are also fewer tellers.Regarding Bob's comments; a little harsh frankly, but if you look closely, he understands the issue. And I suspect that if he knows that running a business is difficult, then he probably has had that experience. It seems to me that most people who think it is easy are the ones who never did, not the other way around.I shop at West Marine. I also shop internet, and have hit many of the places mentioned in these posts. I also have taken advantage of retail outlets to touch and feel and then bought on the internet, even ebay, so I am part of the problem too. I'm glad West Marine is down the road, and I hope they stay there. I live an hour from my boat. If I have a project to do on the boat, it is an all day trip. West Marine, Svendsons, and a few other little outlets in Alameda, CA have saved me an extra trip to my boat (and another day getting something completed) more times than I can count. So what if the screws cost twice as much! We are all full of contradictions, as is life. Businesses respond to their perception of how consumers respond and by dovetailing that to efficient their operations to maximize the sale of products, services, etc. that are most profitable. Is it any surprise that what works, wins?There is no big conspiracy (just a few smaller ones), and there will never be one big company....that has been tried, in the last century (still a few persisting), and didn't exactly work out the way they thought.Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)

 

[Bob Todd]

Dan said...

"I also have taken advantage of retail outlets to touch and feel and then bought on the internet, even ebay, so I am part of the problem too."Dan...part of what problem? Since when is exercising your freedom of choice a problem? Other than this one point, I wholeheartedly agree with you.I'll admit, I could have toned my post down a bit, but hey...I callzem as I seezem.Cheers,Bob

 

[Tom]

Hey, West Marine is not the evil empire

and I hope I didn't suggest that in my much earlier post .BUT....as consumers we must all keep one eye on what practices "might" occur in the future, they are (generally) a fair and decent companyReally, my local WM is great to have close by. I don't mind paying a bit of a premium on things if I can get it NOW. If I'm doing a project and 1/2 way through and need more epoxy (or whatever) having them close by is a godsend even if I have to pay a 50% markup. To me the convenience is worth it.And Pete S. I hear ya !....I have been there. And now when I am in that position I don't do that at the local store. I go online or I call and order and have it shipped to my home. I find that works better. The will rarely bill me ahead of time and I get it just as fast. I typically will shop it around to also make sure its in stock. I NEVER pre-pay an order from a local store anymore.My original post is about a bit of (what I beleive to be) deception on some of their products. You can read my rant on the link I posted below. It has lots more of the details and links to back up some of my observations.Like its says in that clothing store ad --- "An educated consumer are our best customers"Good shopping and fair winds.......and remember WM is not that bad.......lets just keep an eye on them

 

[Rick Webb]

Chandleries to Visit

We all know about the one right here at this site most everyone also knows about Defender and Sailnet. Are there any others that we might benefit from knowing about? One I would recommend is ShipStore.com I have ordered a couple of things from them and have received great service. As a hardware store junkie I always enjoy walking through a good chandlery let’s get those out too there are two of those I can think of A L Kilgo in Honolulu and Pitallo’s in Biloxi, MS both are worth a stop if you are ever in one of those cities. Pitallo's does not take credit cards and they add up your purchase on a note pad so bring cash.

 

[MArk]

Spread the wealth

I like to shop around when the local chandler doesn't have what I need (which is most of the time). I even got cotters, rings and fasteners from Salty Dog in Highland, MI which I had never heard of before a Yahoo search. They had the best prices (on my cotters anyway) and the parts were on my doorstep in 2 days! I still don't know who these people are.Happy Mardi Gras _/),MArk

 

[Bob Todd]

Phil...

I did, I hated it, I got out of it. It just isn't worth the stress and aggro. I'm much happier in my present situation and I have more time for sailing.Cheers,Bob

 

[Daniel Jonas]

Problem

Bob,The problem I referred to was related to fewer stores and therefore less choices, and higher prices as indicated in other posts. My post was in reference to the larger discussion, not just your post.So, my comment stands, and I think is valid. The more we ignore the local retailer and use the internet to shop, the less likely that they will be around in time. I'm making no judgement as to right and wrong here, as I don't believe that is the issue. The world of commere is changing...so there will be more acquisitions and mergers. Consolidations occur because businesses can't thrive in some competitive markets. We consumers help them make those decisions, me included it turns out, so I am part of that problem. That simple.Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)

 

[Paul Akers]

Funny thing about catalogs

I, fortunately, have a choice of stores. Within 20 miles I have Boat/US (2), Boaters World (2), West Marine (4) and multiple chandleries and consignment shops. But the funny thing is that, up until last year, the catalogs for Boat/US, WM and BW were identical right down to the page number and prices. Even now, the stores are within pennies of one another for like items. And if any of them are out of stock, you can order and they will ship free to your house. IMHO, things will stay the same for the near future.But if you shop around in the various catalogs, you can find even cheaper deals. Example - some of the marine electronics catalogs offer great prices. I bought a name-brand chartplotter last spring for $55 cheaper than the big boys, paid no sales tax and got free shipping. We will have to shop smarter if things begin to change.